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A conversation on the internet

What color is the sky?

Daytime or nighttime?

The color of the sky is determined by Rayleigh scattering.

I heard once that the color is different in the Southern hemisphere because the scattering is backwards.

I think it depends on what planet you're on.

Has it OCCURRED to any of you that color blind people might see the sky differently?

Actually, most people with color blindness (Deuteranomalia and Protanopia) see typical sky colors fairly normally.

Color is just a social construct.

Critical color theory.

Ha ha. But "color" is a problematic term in this context. There are better alternatives.

The color Nazis are here.

Homer said the Mediterranean was a wine red sea. I know that's sea, not sky, but what did he mean by that?

Maybe Homer was color blind.

Greek wines were made from grapes so dark that the wine looked almost black. So "wine red" probably just referred to a darkening sea.

That's a myth. Wines in Mycenaean-era Greece were very similar to today's red wines.

Ancient Greeks cultivated dozens of different varieties of grapes.

So they had red wines and white wines?

Yes, but they didn't have names for all the different colors. They classified colors by light or dark. Glaukos might mean either light yellow or light green wines, for example.

Was that just for wine?

No. That's just how they did color in general.

So in regular life what did glaukos usually mean?

Sky blue.

Huh.

23 thoughts on “A conversation on the internet

  1. kahner

    is this just a fun post about the weirdness of internet communication and comments, or am i missing a deeper meaning?

    1. D_Ohrk_E1

      What is the conversation between people with ADHD like?

      Bingo!

      I hate that old folks game.

      It's not just for old folks; we used to play that as kids.

      Connect 4 -- now there's a fun game to play.

      We used to play arcade games during PE when it was rainy. I miss those days.

      Space Invaders, right?

      OMG, was that 1982?

      Whip it! Whip it good!

      Nah. Alan Parsons for the win.

      Eye in the Sky?

      Wait, do you think they were talking about the surveillance state or about a clingy relationship?

      Wasn't that the Eye of Ra?

      Oh yeah! Just like in Stargate, eh?

      Pwok, pwok!

      Chickens!

      Dr. Jackson!

      Who played it better? I say Shanks.

      Oh no, definitely Spader. Ooh, Spade Invader!

      Shanks alot.

    1. zic

      This may well have had to to do with the color of wine in metal or clay containers, I'm sure most Greeks didn't have access to translucent glass bottles or crystal goblets. Wine looks different when there's no light passing through it.

    2. shapeofsociety

      I always assumed it had nothing to do with hue, it was all about shade. Seawater (if you look straight down at it) and red win are not the same hue, but they're similarly dark.

  2. zic

    I am a textile artist, and specialize in indigo. (My avatar is an example of my work.)

    From my research, I have come to believe that words for blue developed when people figured out to to extract indigo from indigo-bearing plants; it's a difficult process where you must create a high-pH reduction and make the indigo lose its blue color in order to dye with it. At the time of Homer, the Greeks did not use indigo.

    ETA: the blueish dye in use by the Greeks was Murex, from snails, the dye of emperors. The destroyed the snail population in the Mediterranean. They would have smelled of low tide on a hot day.

    In some languages, blue and green are not distinct from each other, and this may also reflect the unusual dyeing method of indigo.

    But around the world, so far as I have been able to discern, words for blue emerged at about the same time as people began using indigo as a dye.

  3. danove

    This is reminiscent of the Andy letter on Cartalk. After Tom and Ray embarrassed themselves in a discussion about electric brakes on a trailer, Andy wrote his letter asking the question: do two people who know nothing about a matter know more or less than one person who knows nothing about it. The Andy letter became the listener letter by which all other letters were judged. You can look it up.

  4. Anandakos

    Anybody else notice the similarities between THIS "internet conversation" and the one Kevin showed us.........? We've all lost our ability to focus on one thing, thanks to the Intertubes. All diversions are welcome.

  5. J. Frank Parnell

    The French originally referred to red wine as black wine. It became more popular in France after the British started buying large quantities of it

  6. Winnebago

    Guy Deutscher explores the wine colored sea topic in a very interesting way in the book, Through the Language Glass: Why the World Looks Different in Other Languages. It is well worth the read beyond that topic as well.

  7. Joseph Harbin

    "Maybe Homer was color blind."

    Certainly. Being blind means you're also color blind, and Homer was not known as the Blind Bard for nothing.

    That's just a myth.

    That Homer was blind?

    That Homer was anything! How can anyone prove he really existed?

    How can anyone prove you really existed?

    I'm talking here and that's no myth. What more proof do you need?

    Same for Homer. Somebody had to create Homer's Iliad and Odyssey.

    How do you know it was Homer? Maybe it was a guy named Maynard.

    Homer or a guy named Maynard we know as Homer: what does it matter?

    It matters to Maynard.

    Look, when Rembrandt painted "Aristotle Contemplating a Bust of Homer," he didn't care if the bust was Homer or Maynard. What mattered was that Aristotle believed the bust was Homer.

    How would Rembrandt know what Aristotle believed?

    Because if Aristotle believed he was contemplating a bust of Maynard, Rembrandt was never going to sell that painting.

    What you're saying is: When you can't tell the legend from fact, paint the legend.

    Sure.

    Wanna know a secret? That's not Aristotle in that painting but a homeless guy named Joe who panhandled down the block from Rembrandt.

    You sure about that?

    I looked it up. Fellow in the painting doesn't look anything like the real Aristotle. Not even the same color hair.

    [Long stare.]

    No, I'm not color blind.

    Whatever you say. Where'd you learn about Joe?

    Read it on the internet.

    1. shapeofsociety

      He never said "wine dark sea". He said something in Greek that gets translated into English as "wine dark sea".

  8. D_Ohrk_E1

    Do you know Glass' Einstein on the Beach?

    I feel the earth move. I feel the tumbling down the tumbling down
    There was a judge who like puts in a court.
    And the judge have like in what able jail what it could be a spanking.
    Or a whack. Or a smack. Or a swat. Or a hit.
    This could be where of judges and courts and jails. And who was it.
    This will be doing the facts of David Cassidy of were in this case of feelings.
    That could make you happy. That could make you sad. That could
    make you mad. That could make you jealous.
    So do you know what jail is. A court and a judge could
    do this could be like in those green Christmas Trees.
    So Santa Claus has about red.
    And now the Einstine Trail is like the Einstein on the Beach.
    So this will. So if you know that faffffffff facts.
    So this what happen what I saw in. Lucy or a kite.
    You raced all the way up. This is a race.
    So this one will have eight in type into a pink rink.
    So this way could be very magic. So this could be like in
    Scene women comes out to grab her.
    So this what She grabbed her. So if you lie on the grass.
    So this could be where if the earth moves or not. So here we go.
    I feel the earth move under my feet. I feel the tumbling down the tumbling down.
    I feel if some ostriches are a like into a satchel. Some like them.
    I went to the window and wanted to draw the earth.

    I think either you understand or you don't, and if you don't, it's because your brain is 100% normal.

  9. Rich Beckman

    "Happ is not going to waive his no trade clause."

    "I have seen that posted here several time in the past couple of weeks. How do we know with such certainty that Happ will not waive his no trade clause?"

    "I don't know. I read it here."

  10. DarkBrandon

    "Has it OCCURRED to any of you that color blind people might see the sky differently?"

    This particular line of interrupting the discussion to shame people for their privilege of not being of race X, or social class Y, or disadvantaged class Z, is so common that it needs a name. An extremely uncomplimentary one.

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