This was . . .
Oh Christ. What a dog's breakfast of a debate. Donald Trump spent the whole time just saying anything he wanted. Immigrants are killing hundreds of thousands. Joe Biden is single-handedly destroying Social Security. Putin never would have invaded Ukraine and Hamas never would have attacked Israel if he had been president. I offered 10,000 troops to Nancy Pelosi on January 6. Blah blah blah. It was just endless.
Joe Biden occasionally woke up to respond. But most of the time he just sounded confused. He was hard to understand—did he have a cold or something?—he jumped almost randomly between subjects, and he was often incoherent. He frequently stated outright that Trump was lying—which he was—but mostly left it at that instead of explaining further. And we had conversations like this:
Trump: I had the best environmental record ever.
Biden: Trump is nuts. But let me tell you about $35 insulin.
Trump: I just won two club championships.
Biden: I had a 6 handicap. An 8 handicap....
Trump: Let's not act like children.
Somehow Biden got himself maneuvered into a position where Donald Trump could pretend to be the adult in the room!
In addition to general incoherence, Biden continually got deep in the weeds about policy but only in passing. There's not a person in a hundred who could have understood most of his references unless they were explained, but Biden just blew through them as if everyone in the audience had inhaled a copy of the Congressional Record. If you were paying very close attention, this demonstrated a surprisingly deep understanding of policy on Biden's part, but the way he delivered it made it seem anything but.
Even in his (presumably rehearsed) final statement Biden was halting, hard to follow, and jumped from subject to subject so quickly there was no way of pulling any theme out of it. Trump blathered, but he spoke plainly about how terrible Biden was.
This was not a good night for Joe Biden.
POSTSCRIPT: As usual, I wrote this before reading or listening to any other reaction. But I now note that CNN is going strong on the fact that Trump lied a lot. Really a lot. And that's absolutely correct. Trump long ago learned the lesson that you can literally say anything you want, and all that happens is you get your wrist slapped by some fact checkers the next day. And nobody reads fact checkers.
To his credit, Trump showed unusual restraint and discipline during the debate. He didn't interrupt or explode or anything like that. He lied and evaded questions, but that's entirely normal for him.
We're screwed. Was it bad enough for Biden to drop out? I like Biden, but please let it be that bad.
Two things would have to happen to make this even a consideration:
1). Biden's polling tanks across the board and he starts to trail by five or more points and safe states now become contested states. That would lead to a ton of pressure and an intervention from...
2). People who are Joe's closest confidants telling him its time to go because the situation is hopeless. That would be Clyburn, Klain, Coons, Donellian, O'Malley, maybe even Obama.
Remember, for Joe to step down means he quits. That's not something he or any man would want to do. To step down would have to be done in such a way to leave him a little pride, dignity and a sense that he did the right thing.
This is it. Biden stays unless the "REAL" numbers make it obvious that he id doomed. I always thought that he was a good soldier and will see the writing on the wall.
And there is always Jill...
None of the other democrats will do much better.
You are saying this with absolutely no reasons, let alone proof.
Whoever replaces Joe Biden on the ticket, it will seem like a breath of fresh air.
We are the only democracy in the world who has election campaigns as long as 4 months. A lot can happen in 4 months.
After tonight's disaster, there is no way that Biden wins in November. So I would feel hope having a candidate whose chances to win are greater than zero.
For those who insist on names, I would start with Whitmer, Newsom, Pritzger and Beshear. Especially Beshear.
No proof except for the polling that was done that showed that none of your alternatives had a chance.
The election was lost when Biden completely lost his train of thought 10 minutes into the debate. The question is whether we're going to throw the country over the cliff to protect one guy's feelings. The idea we would do that is absurd.
Again, the election is already lost. Putting someone else out there isn't going to result in "Well I'm voting for Trump because they changed candidates." No one cares about process. That person will be judged on their own merits. I *can't stand* Gavin Newsom, and I absolutely believe he would beat Trump, and he would have wrecked Trump in that debate.
Biden looked old, and while at times he was on, other times he was off, and it was obvious. Trump was a nutcase, but unless you follow things carefully, it is hard to figure all the ways that the man lied. And most Americans don't follow things that carefully.
And Biden needed to address that inflation was not his doing but he did not and that is sticking to him and that hurts a lot (I think).
A bad night for the good guys.
Someone will pretty soon allude to the 1960 debate. If you read a transcript Nixon clearly won. On TV everyone gave it to JFK. Sadly Biden was Nixon tonight
Haven’t read the Nixon transcripts but gotta assume he was at least coherent. Can’t say the same for Biden. Me and my wife had to turn it off after a while. Too hard to watch
You may be right. Reading his answers on Twitter, I thought they sounded fine. But I wasn't watching it so I have no idea how it looked and from many people's judgement, the optics were terrible ala Nixon.
Politics is not a spectator sport.
If you're sitting on the sidelines sipping margaritas thinking about which of your teammates to complain about, look in the mirror.
The choice between egalitarian democracy and authoritarian autocracy is not a brain teaser.
I knew it was going to be a disaster after the first 5 minutes. Had to turn it off. I hope Biden will review the "highlights" tape, see the reality, and drop out.
BIDEN HAD A COLD.
So Democracy in America is fucked because Biden caught a cold.
I’m sorry but that cold thing seems like bullshit (not sure if you’re being sarcastic or not)
Let’s assume he did have a cold though. Did his cold induce confusion? This guy has gotta drop out, he’s clearly lost it. Even compared to 4 years ago
And Trump hasn't? Biden didn't look good, Trump looked worse. If Americans decide Trump is a better choice, the country deserves to fail and turn into the hellhole Trump wants it to be. It was a good 200+ year run but way too many Americans have turned into idiots and raving lunatics for it to keep going much longer.
Yeah this country has some dummies. But why make it so hard for them? Trump has never once run against a strong candidate, it’s always a nail biter. It’s criminal
An Obama (or even like a Gore or Kerry) would have destroyed Trump. Where did all those guys go? Just put all the democratic governors’ names in a hat and pull one out for Christsakes, it’d be better than this crap
You greatly underestimate the depth and solidity of the division in the present electorate. Everyone thinks (correctly) that Obama was a strong candidate, but 1) he never one with margins like Reagan or (goddess help us) Nixon (!), and 2) in 2008, he just eked out a victory in the primaries against Secy. Clinton, who you think was a weak candidate. You think that Biden is a weak candidate, but in 2020 he defeated some of the people being mentioned as possible alternatives today.
Reportedly the big issues for Trump voters are 1) the border and 2) the economy, which his supporters seem to think was better during his administration. No Democrat is going to run to TFG’s right on immigration, and the economy is going to be what it is whoever the candidate. Democrats certainly have a strong bench, but to beat TFG we need a better strategy.
A potential new dem doesn’t need to be RJ the right of Trump on anything. MAGA people aren going tj vote for Trump no matter what. A new dem candidate would just need to be no more to the left than Biden (hopefully to the right of him on some issues) in order to get voters like me, a Republican but one that will not vote for Trump.
No bullshit, Nora O'Donnell of NBC News tweeted out that the Biden camp told her this.
He should have postponed it if that was the case.
If Biden had a cold that should have been announced before the debate.
Yes that was a major fail on the part of the campaign.
For want of a nail the kingdom was lost! Whose idea was it to go ahead despite his illness? And why was Biden, at his age, not kept in a bubble?
Also if a cold can do this to him he really is too old for the job.
A cold can do that to a lot of people. I mean I've had colds like that. But I have the luxury of calling in sick to work.
Both these men were too old in 2020. Now, it’s even worse.
America’s future in the hands of a very old psychopath/liar and a very old 81 year old who has trouble expressing himself….i didn’t watch. Trump lies because he always lied and that’s what psychopaths do. Biden’s had a cold on top of his normal public speaking problems and his age. Putin loves this. The world is aghast.
It’s RBG revisited. Slightly different script but still we have one totally unfit liar and a questionably competent nice old man.
Trump was a blast furnace of lies.
Trump has always been a blast furnace of lies, going all the way back to the 1980's when he first became a public figure. Since 2015 a solid 46% of the US voting population has made clear that they are OK supporting a blast furnace of lies.
Haven't watched it. My quick impression is
1) Mainstream media is more or less "Biden had a pretty lousy night, and probably lost the debate."
2) The terminally online take seems to be "Biden had a disastrous night and just guaranteed a Trump win in November unless he quits the race."
It appears Biden indeed lost, but I'll also note that losing a debate hardly guarantees an election outcome one way or another. So my gut instinct says #1 is a more accurate take than #2.
Yep there's a reason that the Biden camp agreed to a debate this early in the cycle. Incumbents always f'up the first debate in the election cycle.
A reporter at PBS on a panel said something like Democrats who were texting her were freaking out and that they were "half- jokingly crying".
Tells a lot about the two parties moral and performance standards when Democrats are concerned because Biden didn't perform as expected, and Republicans are joyful when Trump gives his best impression of a crazy, drunk, lying raving lunatic.
Trump was a comparatively energetic crazy, drunk lying raving lunatic. And that matters to the voting public. Trump's crazy drunk lying schtick has been front and center of his persona since forever, and a large portion of the public is clearly willing to support him.
Van Jones (!) on CNN just insinuated he should drop out. The MSM is not just saying it was a bad night.
I wouldn’t call myself terminally online but my somewhat older, staunchly democratic parents definitely are not. Nor are my aunt and uncle who watched with them
They are both going with door #2, that he lost the election. I kind of have to agree. It was pretty bad man
All of you have forgotten the first Obama/Romney debate:
“In the green room, we were on our feet, hooting and hollering; like watching an early Tyson fight,” recalled Will Ritter, a Republican strategist who was Romney’s 2012 director of advance. “Gov. Romney humbled the sitting president who was too arrogant to prepare.”
https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/25/politics/obama-debate-election-2012/index.html
I guess it’s too bad Obama didn’t withdraw. Maybe then we wouldn’t have had President Romney.
All of you have forgotten the first Obama/Romney debate:
I haven't forgotten that. Andrew Sullivan was ready to jump from the ledge.
I would wait and see what the polling 48 hours later looks like then we'll have a good idea.
It’s not that he lost the debate. Lots of candidates have lost debates and done just fine anyway. The problem tonight was he cemented every single doubt an average voter had about him.
+1
Drum: "He was hard to understand—did he have a cold or something?—he jumped almost randomly between subjects, and he was often incoherent."
That's gotta be it - a cold. What else could possibly explain a sometimes incoherent 81 year old whispering for 90 minutes?
Trump did lie a lot and so did Biden.
No, Biden did not lie.
I’m. Republican and have never voted for a democrat (other than a couple local races). I was planning on voting for Biden. And I may still will. (If not, I’ll leave it blank.) But my hope is that Biden steps down and some other (moderate) democrat steps in. I definitely don’t won’t Trump to win and any moderate dem would win against him in a landslide. The fact that Kamala is on the ticket is a big handicap for Biden. Coupled with this performance I don’t think he has a chance.
Tell me about this Kamala thing. I don't get it. Is it just because she's a woman and not white? She was Attorney General of California. It's bigger than most countries. She was a senator. No scandals. Why is she supposed to be a handicap as a vice-president?
I would vote have voted for Condoleezza Rice without any question if she had ran. It has absolutely nothing to do with sex or race. Harris is just too liberal and too much of a race baiter for me.
lol
if you think Rice is not a race hustler, wasn't one her entire DC career, you have not been paying attention
at all
I guess it’s just much more obvious with Harris. I never noticed it with Rice.
The problem is that Harris, for whatever reason, is even less popular than Biden. I like her and was an early supporter in the primary, but she is an electoral nonstarter for most of the country.
A lot of the country hates her without being able to recall a single thing she's said or done.
Why is that?
When she had her chance at running something big and complex like a campaign she totally fucked it up. For example she put her sister (nepotism) in co-lead of the campaign with a guy who has never run a campaign outside of dem heavy California. Then when the campaign became dysfunctional because she put the wrong people in charge, she was incapable of imposing order. In other words, failed judgement and failed leadership of the biggest thing she had ever run at that point.
THAT is the problem with Harris.
" I was planning on voting for Biden. And I may still will. (If not, I’ll leave it blank.) But my hope is that Biden steps down and some other (moderate) democrat steps in."
Good for you. I respect your principled opinion, and share your hopes.
"any moderate dem would win against him in a landslide"
Hillary was a moderate dem - she lost in the electoral college; failed to reach a landslide in the popular vote.
Hillary lost me because of the misandrist nonsense she had spread for years.
Moderate? Maybe on some topics. But why would I vote for somebody who hates me for having the wrong gender?
I said years ago that Biden needed to say that he would not run again. Nothing has changed with me. Trump may be the worst president ever, but as in 2016, the Dems are trying to get trump elected. Their arrogance is simply stunning and it’s going to destroy this country.
Agree. He should have said "I'm a one termer" shortly after the 2022 elections.
Agree. He should have said "I'm a one termer" shortly after the 2022 elections.
It's all moot because of whom he chose as running mate. I think this is all very unfair and misguided, mind you: I personally like and admire the Vice President, and have zero doubt she has the skills to successfully lead the nation. But the polling pretty clearly shows her numbers are catastrophically bad—worse than Biden's.
If the campaign situation is really as bad as a lot of Democrats seem to be saying (I'm skeptical) then it's not enough for Biden to refuse the nomination. Both he and Harris need to refuse the nomination, and Democrats need to nominate Gretchen Whitmer, Mark Kelly, Andy Beshear, Josh Shapiro or some other seemingly strong candidate.
That's a tall order.
Yes, a tall order for extraordinary times.
Time to try to reinforce the down-ballot for the Senate. If not also the House.
Just as I feared. Biden had a bad night and Democrats immediately started wringing their hands and saying he should drop out. If Trump had the bad night Republicans would have circled the wagons and claimed he had a great night despite the libs in the press trying to destroy him. Easy to predict, sad to watch.
Undoubtedly true.
Undoubtedly irrelevant.
MAGA lunatics are no blueprint for sane people. Just because millions of localists followed Hitler into the grave doesn't mean sane people should close their eyes and follow their example.
Too true.
Democrats really need to stop looking for "one weird trick" to make our political headaches go away. Mint a trillion-dollar platinum coin! Pack the Supreme Court! Use the 14th Amendment to throw Trump off the ballot! Have an incumbent President drop out of the race and replace him with... uh... somebody better! (Oh, and we'll have to do it at the convention because the primaries are pretty much over. It's only been 56 years since a convention picked the nominee, it'll be fine, right? Not a chaotic s**tshow that ends with nominating who-the-hell-knows-who.)
Enough. Let's just focus on winning the damn election. And that means backing up our guy, even when he has a bad night. It isn't just about beating Trump, although God knows that's reason enough. Look back over Biden's accomplishments -- he's done more for liberal causes than any President since Johnson. The economy is stronger than it's been in decades, income inequality is going down, we're out of Afghanistan at last, we've made massive investments in green energy and infrastructure. I have mixed feelings about forgiving student loan debt, but Biden has pushed as far as the Supreme Court will let him go on that. And it's Biden's commitment that has given Ukraine the weapons to hold Russia at bay.
I concede that Gaza is a blot on the administration's record -- though I'll challenge anybody to name a President we've had who would have done better -- but Bibi would ravage Gaza with or without our support.
We don't have to go full-on delusional and pretend Biden stomped all over Trump, but keep some friggin' perspective. One debate in June does not determine the election in November.
I concede that Gaza is a blot on the administration's record.
It's not Gaza. It's the inflation hangover and the border.
Funny, I consider Gaza one of Biden’s biggest accomplishments.
Biden should have dropped out but it’s too late now probably. Is there a precedent for a candidate bowing out this late?
Damn. We’re f’ed, big time. He’s lost it
LBJ
LBJ dropped out much earlier. January or February, IIRC.
March 31
So, nearly 2.5 months before the primaries ended. Got it.
I’ll ask President Humphrey how well that turned out.
Since when does a previous event with much different circumstances absolutely predict what will happen this time.
"You can't step in the same river twice, because the river has changed and you have changed"
You just love strawman arguments, don't you? No one is saying 1969 "absolutely predicts" what's going to happen in 2024. Nonetheless, there's a very small sample size to go on, and the only half-way relevant example we have is LBJ's decision to pull out of the race. That opened up the nomination process for the Vice President, who both secured the nomination and lost to a deeply corrupt Republican in a very close election.
Maybe Harris pulls it out? Who knows? But if it's evidence you're after, what we have available suggests she performs more weakly than President Biden, who, despite the wave of panic sweeping the terminally online, happens to be locked in a very tight race with the Republican nominee.
https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-approval-rating-2024-problem-1853029?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
This has been the problem with the "Joe, stand down" crowd from the getgo: the original sin was in choosing her as a running mate. That can't be undone. The only way to manage the challenge if Joe bows out is to somehow prevail upon her not to run, or defeat her in a bruising convention fight. Good luck winning the White House when a quarter of your Black support stays home or votes for someone else.
Grin. Imagine if Trump chooses Tim Scott as his running mate!
Then Democrats get to choose between nominating Kamala Harris and having half of black voters vote for Trump. Popcorn!
I got taken to task two weeks ago for saying it was a mistake for Biden to have proposed this "debate". There was no scenario in which it could have helped his campaign, and plenty of scope to damage it. The expectations created in the lead-up just added to the potential damage: Biden was going to be razor-sharp after a full week of preparation while Trump's team was panicking and looking for ways to cancel the whole affair.
The consensus is that Biden performed poorly. Time will tell how lasting the damage is to his re-election prospects. The media will ensure the September rematch will be presented in the next two months as THE MOST CRITICAL MOMENT IN THE HISTORY OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS!!! Whatever other conclusions one draws, one has to seriously question the political judgement of the president and his campaign team.
I got taken to task two weeks ago for saying it was a mistake for Biden to have proposed this "debate". There was no scenario in which it could have helped his campaign, and plenty of scope to damage it.
This reasoning assumes "ducking" a debate (they absolutely would've been accused of this) wouldn't likewise have been damaging to the Biden campaign. I think it's eminently possible it would have been.
If so, getting the first debate over with early might well prove very smart: (A) it gives the Democrats time to find another nominee (unlikely, I think, but you never know) and (B) the recency of the bad performance will have faded by November.
If Biden ends up winning, the Trump campaign might well look upon their decision to agree to such an early debate date as a fatal error.
If Biden wins there is no way that the Republicans will look at it as anything but cheating by the Libs.
In which case they can pound sand.
You mean like being accused of ducking debates hurt Trump in the Republican primary? Sticks and stones etc.
Biden had every right to refuse to share a platform with a man found by juries to have committed rape and fraud; a man under indictment for stealing classified documents; a man who betrayed his oath of office by trying to overturn an election result; a man who to this day refuses to acknowledge that Biden is a legitimate president.
Justifying a refusal to debate would have allowed Biden to attack Trump on all these fronts. And I'd be amazed if there was a single voter in America who would have sincerely said "Ya know, I was going to vote for Biden, but his refusal to debate Trump made me switch to the Republican."
"To his credit, Trump showed unusual restraint during the debate. He didn't interrupt or explode or anything like that."
I think for once, Trump had some coaching that he actually absorbed, and it helped a lot.
This debate mattered for the independents who don't follow politics closely and are trying to make up their minds. Trump just seemed far more coherent and mentally with it, and a lot of these voters don't realize 90% of Trump's points are simply lies made to sound plausible by a sociopath who is good at manipulating people.
So Trump did better in his deceitfully shitty way, and Biden did terrible.
Sociopathic populists sure are dangerous.
I’ve thought for awhile now, based on the polls, that Biden won’t win. Seems even more certain now. Maybe replacing Biden will help, but the date is late. And who the hell could replace him anyway?
Van Jones, David Axelrod, Mike Murphy, other political pros thought it was a very bad night for Biden.
Biden team floats notion that he had a cold. Then why weren't we informed before the debate?
Jim Clyburn set this in motion in 2020. The endorsement gave Biden South Carolina, hence the nomination.
The way the U.S. works is, once you're in office, you must run for a second term, or it's a confession of weakness/failure, which hands a tremendous advantage to the other party.
Before endorsing, add 8 years to the person you're endorsing, and ask if you can imagine that person still performing at that age.
Thanks, Jim.
No other Democrat would have defeated Trump. Clyburn knew this and acted accordingly.
Oh fuck is right. I never wanted to say this, but Biden has to drop out. As for "O God, how to replace him?", this is a time to say we gotta do what we gotta do. When is the convention? August 19. That means there are 53 days to figure this out.
Figure it out. We CANNOT just mumble our way to another trump presidency.
And I don't see how it's NOT Kamala Harris. Fuck the polls that show her "unpopular" -- she has not yet been a candidate for president. When she is, the whole universe will change, and everything depends on getting the whole damn country behind her.
Fuck the polls that show her "unpopular" -- she has not yet been a candidate for president.
Why wouldn't we go with someone who's both a plausible president and doesn't have bad poll numbers? Andy Beshear, Gretchen Whitmer, Mark Kelly, Sherrod Brown, Josh Shapiro...
The answer clearly is: the delegates will be under enormous pressure to give it to Harris and not to a stronger candidate.
Which underscores the problem with the whole "Dump Joe" narrative from day one: it's overwhelmingly likely we'd be getting rid of him for a candidate who's weaker.
Would it be too much to ask to at least see what Joe's numbers look like over the next couple of weeks? The convention's not until August. And I'll remind folks that the race has been statistically more or less a dead heat, so it's not as if Biden's numbers have been uncompetitive vis-a-vis Trump.
Trump started calm and measured, but after the point made about Trump's cabinet members and vice-president nearly universally not endorsing him, and especially when Joe mentioned the 19 presidential scholars who called Trump the worst president ever, Trump lost that composure and went very negative, and honestly I would say Biden won the last half of the debate (mostly on substance, some style too), but we didn't get SOTU Joe tonight, and he lost the first 10 minutes of the debate pretty badly, and first impressions matter.
If I'm being completely honest, there were moments I really didn't understand what Joe was saying, or where he faltered, hesitated and/or stumbled, under a pretty big spotlight.
Debates aren't really arbiters of who will be the best president, but unfortunately Joe is really going to be on the defensive after this about his age and acuity, and the Republicans are going to disrespectfully pile on like nothing we've ever seen in the modern era.
I did notice Biden has a cold in the first few minutes, as I currently have a cold so am very familiar with it (and watched a friend deteriorate with the cold on Monday who I got it from), but not sure that's going to matter, the next debate is in a few months, if Trump agrees to do it, and not sure putting it all on a cold is really explanatory of anything except him being at times hard to understand (voice-wise).
Very strongly agree that debate performance is a lousy predictor of performance in office. The President didn't come across well, but on the other hand, he's done an impressive job over his first term, with an almost non-functional Congress half of that time. I'm not convinced that Biden dropping out at this point would change much. I'm willing to wait a few days, see if the polls show any significant change (I don't actually expect it).
Biden completely choked and it came from the first moment he went to speak and his voice didn't show up. He was on his back foot through the end thanks to that.
Trump BS's and is not called out for it. Biden tried to counter with facts and stumbled a bit because he was trying to get it right.
Biden is old. He gets into the weeds on things. He likes to tell stories. He stutters. And he has slowed down a bit, so doesn't catch himself as quickly as he used to. His strength has always been getting bills passed. He's a lion of the Senate. But he's supposed to be President. After Trump's time in office, he was a balm the country needed. To bad people have short memories.
Should add, I only caught pieces of the "debate". It was not pretty.
So where is the next generation of Democrats? Who is going to be able to take it to Trump and convince a majority of voters in the crucial electoral college states that he or she are the one? Name three please?
Shapiro, Whitmer, Newsom. I think Shapiro would be the best bet.
The problem is trying to organize a campaign overnight
Remember that Biden is the center of the party. Him being in charge has kept it together for the most part. You take him out a lot of divisions, some of them potentially quite ugly, will emerge and there wouldn't be a lot of time to patch things up
Who the f&$k is Shapiro? The only Shapiro I’ve ever heard of is Ben…… Name recognition has got to count for something, right?
He's the popular governor of a large, important swing state.
Governor of Pennsylvania. Good approval ratings IIRC, but he is also a strong supporter of Israel, has condemned campus protests and criticized former Penn president Magill for not taking a stronger stand against the pro-Palestinian protestors. So he wouldn't improve any relations with supporters of Palestinian rights. A Newsom candidacy would result in an avalanche of attack ads over the French Laundry lunch --- elitist!!
He showed he did not actually give a fuck about covid best practices. He wasn't elitist just a liar.
The things you mentioned about Shapiro would give him a fighting chance of winning crossover votes. I’m a republic but do not want Trump. I also don’t want someone who supports those anti-Semitic protestors
Palestinians are Semites.
He would be the first Jewish President.
“CNN is going strong on the fact that Trump lied a lot.”
I only watched the first few minutes of CNN’s post-debate analysis, but that was mostly “Democrats are panicking,” with a few people mentioning that Trump lied and ducked questions before returning to bashing Biden’s performance.
To emphasize a point that iamr4man made above, it’s pretty clear that the analysts were hearing from Democratic politicians and insiders about how bad Biden’s performance was, while no Republicans were dunking on Trump’s performance.
Trump made it clear that if he loses, he will again attempt to overturn the result. But that’s not really news, so while CNN might have mentioned it eventually, it wasn’t what the analysts wanted to talk about, and they didn’t in the portion I watched.
Don't complain, make it work.
The election is between setting everything on fire, or not doing that.
Is your house improved by burning it flat? Or not?
Is your work improved by burning down the building? Or not?
Because all the consequences of you burning down your own house and burning down your own work are going to fall on you if the next president is Donald Trump. That's what your vote for him will do for you.
Amen. The message needs to be told that the orange guy will not make your life better. There's still time to convince 51% that we can be better than TFG's dark images. All the hand wringing is not productive.
We can't stay in our comfort zone, we're not reaching marginal and low information voters.
Motivation and getting out the vote are all that matters.
Well, if you want Biden to drop out, then we need to stop pretending that policy matters and make it all about the end of liberal democracy. There's not enough time and the means to vet candidates based on policy.
The only way to beat a fake persona whose popularity is based on machoism and cruelty, is to beat him with someone who has the perfect blend of strength and empathy. And if you want to break Trump, we'll need a crossover VP: A former Republican that drives MAGA nuts but reflects on how Democrats want to save our liberal democracy.
No question Biden came off weak. Oddly, after the debate when he addressed his supporters he was much stronger. Maybe they can put him on TV doing casual interviews that will show him in a better light. Maybe do the interview in the Oval Office being presidential or in meetings making decisions.
Trump didn’t just lie, he came across as crazy and terrifying. He is the drunk at the end of the bar no one wants to stand close to. It wasn’t just that he lied, the things he said were horrific.
It is odd that the moderators asked each candidate what they would do if elected. In fact, it is the entire team that gets things done along with the senate and the house. Biden doesn’t have to write the bills himself. He uses his experience to set policy together with his staff and then get the bills passed because he knows the senate so well.
I think that Biden shouldn’t have tried to use so many statistics but should have opened his heart to talk about his vision for the country. He just got distracted by the numbers and most people don’t care.
As to who else the Dems might run in 2028, I’ll suggest Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom.
Finally a sane take. Most people this election haven't been reminded why they voted against Donny the last time.
This is a good take. Biden needs to run on being a good person. Not try to seem youthful and sharp but just hit on the morals and vision. He should admit often that he is old, he’s not quick anymore, he thinks slower and talks slower but he still thinks well and surrounds himself with people who are competent and share his vision. Call Trump a fast talking, incompetent, grifter often and repeatedly. This performance was pretty bad but there is still time to change the impression.
if the choice is between old and slow, or lying, criminal, and batshit crazy, you'd have to be a drooling moron to pick the latter. We are about to see how far down the stupidity hole the US as a nation has fallen.
On the question of “democracy or autocracy” why muddy the waters? You could argue with Trump vs a Labrador retriever, you should pick the dog, but who the hell put the lab on stage? And will it really do a good job running the country?
Democratic Party establishment should be ashamed. It’s really unconscionable to gamble the country with such a shitty candidate, and for what? Can anyone tell me this is the best Democratic nominee? Aside from Biden’s ego this serves no one and nothing
In this case you don't have to wonder how the "labrador" would be running the country because he has already been running it for more than 3 years with pretty darn good results.
"Democrats" should be ashamed if they even entertain the idea of sitting out the election or voting Trump because Biden is old. Purity morons already tested your same spiel in 2016 and the country may never recover from such a selfish, child like mentality.
If you have to pick between a serial killer who promises to go on a killing spree, and a guy you think is too old, it's on the voter to pick between the two choices. At some point Americans should grow the fuck up, or come to terms with the possibility of the nation ending if they don't come down from their high horse.
It’s not me you have to convince. I’ve come to terms with my past and future votes for horrible Democratic presidential candidates
Do you this decrepit old fart is gonna win over any fence-sitters? Not likely
Partisans on both sides should stop this nonsense about the end of the country if one or the other wins, Trump is obviously gaslighting but some Democrats aren't much better, Trump was president before and there was no existential danger to the nation while he was doing so, despite being a bad loser at the end (which is not an option for him this time as no way he gets an amendment for a 3rd term).
Stay grounded in reality because Trump is very vulnerable on the substance, no need to get hysterical.
Project 2025
No, there aren't bothsides are hyperbolic. The Heritage foundation is already spending big bucks on identifying down to the GS-13 level all government employees who aren't sufficiently loyal to Trump.
Is this a weird joke?
I guess a coup that fails is no big deal.
The break up of NATO will be existential for somebody, if not Americans.
Trump and the forces behind him are a reaction to a Congress that has become increasingly dysfunctional this century. If the federal government is incapable of running the country, then it's time for regime change - that's the mood on the right. "Traditional values" must be enforced by letting the police put a bit of stick about. End all this woke nonsense that has undermined the culture of the nation. Restore conservative Christianity as the sole arbiter of moral questions. Let the states run their own affairs while Washington concentrates on restoring America's global military dominance and putting China back in its place. Most important of all, stop the influx of colored immigrants and Muslims who are poisoning the blood of the nation.
Of course it wouldn't mean "the end of the country". But it would mean the end of the America that has evolved since the Great Depression.
no way he gets an amendment for a 3rd term
You're naive as fuck if you think Trump needs an actual amendment to stay in power. He's got other options:
1) Run Don Jr or Ivanka as president and stay in the White House as an unofficial (wink wink) "adviser."
2) Run for an easy House seat in 2028, and promptly become Speaker of the House, and govern as a sort of strong man/premier.
Many democracies have gone through periods of autocracy. This is quite common in history. I don't know why so many Americans think their country has been given a free pass by history. When Hitler was making his bid for power, many Germans thought he was a loutish carnival barker who could be controlled, and used as a political tool to bring about desired policy outcomes. Not having a crystal ball, they didn't know any better. But what's America's excuse? We know Trump has authoritarian tendencies. We've been given ample warning. Hell, he even attempted a coup.