The Florida Department of Education finally released a few examples of "unacceptable" math problems today. Here is one of them:
So the lesson here is that conservatives are racist, as proven by a test that's of dubious reliability.
Nice work, textbook people. This is insane. I can't imagine there's a conservative governor anywhere in the country who wouldn't be offended by this. If this math book included a similar bar graph showing crime rates by race, do you think that liberal governors might be equally offended?
For chrissake. How about if we stick to bar charts of smog levels at different hours of the day, or something like that?
Are we suggesting that Florida students will be as interested in and engaged with a bar chat about smog as they will with one about racism?
That IS the point, right? Not pleasing hack governors actively looking for reasons to be unpleased.
So you think it's fine that a textbook (ie a supposed source of truth) includes problematic claims "as an example"?
Would you be OK if the bar charts were "IQ by race"? And if the textbook author said "We're not claiming these IQ stats mean anything, they're just an example the kids are interested in"?
If this is actually from a textbook (and nobody’s provided a citation), it’s authors presumably consider it to accurately describe conservatives as more racist. They don’t see any particularly problematic about the claim or their mathematical proofs and nobody’s established otherwise.
I’m basically innumerate but this chart looks pretty accurate to me. I also looked at the Washington Post article and it didn’t seem to have a persuasive debunking. Somewhat ironically, the argument seemed to be one of political correctness in that it is inappropriate to say mean things about conservatives.
Saying that Republicans are racist is like saying that water is wet.
I wouldn't say all Republicans are racist, but all racists invariably vote Republican. For some reason!
I often wonder about that. It’s like someone supporting the Nazi Party circa 1938 because of Hitler wants to make Germany great again. I would say that, by definition, there are no good people in the party after roughly 1938; if you’re still in the party after that time, you’re a Nazi.
There was an old German saying, "There are enthusiastic Nazi's, smart Nazi's, and honest Nazi's, but no Nazi is all three. Applies to today's Republicans as well.
But all Republicans place little no importance on unequal racial outcomes.
I don't think Kevin means the numbers themselves but whether the source (The Race IAT) is a valid way to measure racism, which if I recall is at least somewhat disputed. (I agree with Kevin at least for this lone example.)
If it’s disputed, the people disputing it should show their work rather than worrying about offending delicate little snowflakes. If it’s accurate, then who cares if conservatives are offended at having their racism openly discussed.
As you are self-described innumerate, it's rather a silly arch bit of sophistry to "show their work"
Drum's point - and a valid one - is that it is not a clever nor smart thing to insert political subjects into a mathematics textbook. It is simply not the place for such things. Really. Left or right, it should not be there, there is no necessity for it and one is only creating a potential maths learning barrier by having attention going to the non-maths subject rather than the actual maths.
I don’t think it’s particularly “arch” to call upon Kevin and others to show their work. I may be innumerate but there’s a lot of people whose credibility I respect who are capable of evaluating Kevin’s claims. That’s why I think it’s reasonable for the critics to show their work.
I don’t think Kevin’s criticism is valid even if it’s basis is as you describe. A culture war is essentially a war. Conservatives in Texas have been manipulating textbooks to mandate right wing ideas for decades. When they stop, you can criticize both sides but until then I would paraphrase that great American philosopher Tony Soprano and say that they who demand neutrality should practice it themselves. Until then, this is perfectly appropriate to put in a math textbook.
In other words, arch sophistry as a response because the example happens to fit your particular political prejudices.
A maths text is not a social studies text. Inserting at best debatable socio-political controversy does nothing to teach the subject, rather more likely to be a barrier to absorption.
Pandering to political activists ideologues is not helpful for learning other subjects - regardless of if it is Left side or Right side.
Hypocritical empty headed sophistry.
YES! Math class is supposed to teach math, not social studies.
And to the point about how boring Kevin's smog data might be to students, there are plenty of interesting data that are relevant to Florida students. Think about what teenagers might find interesting--surfing and fishing, for example. So fish populations relative to water temperature, for example, or surf measures relative to barometric pressure.
And since textbooks are generally written for nationwide distribution, what might be interesting to all American teenagers, including the ones who live in non-surfing places like Wyoming or Arkansas? Maybe automobile/truck ownership by age, cross-tabbed against location (rural, suburban, urban).
But Texas is a huge market and its thumb has been on the ideological scale for decades demanding adherence to right wing beliefs. I think think two things are true:
First, we need to be just as demanding in California, New York, New Jersey, and every other blue state. Textbooks can conform to our belief or they can be neutral. But the time for bending the knee to the Republicans is past.
Second, Kevin may not want to deal with the reality of a culture war but we’re in one and it’s time to start pushing back. If there’s something in a math textbook that educates children about Republicans and racism, that’s fine with me. I really don’t care.
The Republicans are talking about purging non Republicans from all levels of government. I don’t think they’d do that if the position of the Democrats was to defend neutrality but to make it clear that they are prepared to respond by doing the same plus removing Fox News from all cable channels.
So in short this is political sophistry, not Maths to you.
That is part of the problem. The primacy of short-termist political posturing and political issues entirely exogenous to the textbook subject - Mathematics.
You are in fact no better than this De Santis, merely the inverted poilitical colouration.
Implicit Bias tests are under increasing fire from ALL sides of the political spectrum. One article covering such criticisms from the liberal-leaning Vox:
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/7/14637626/implicit-association-test-racism
Implicit Association Test is one of those BS psychological instruments that can generate any result you want depending on how you set things up.
It's extremely controversial and substantially less "scientific" than something like IQ, especially in terms of what the results actually mean. What you have at the end of the test is a score -- turning that into a claim of Racial Prejudice is an opinion, not any sort of non-controversial translation.
Anyone who is interested to read the science might start here: https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.366.6991&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Then the cited Poehlmann, et. al. meta-analysis looks helpful. As opposed to your BS.
I don’t think we should smear certain political leanings in schools. Liberal vs conservative is a question of belief, not choice. That’s where it differs from party membership. You don’t choose what you believe
The greater question is, aren’t we trying to teach kids math here? Since when should politics be involved in teaching how to fit a curve? Especially on a hot button issue like racism. So even if you don’t buy the “belief vs choice” thing it’s really a case of “you’re technically right, but pragmatically what is the point here”
If everything is part of the culture war for them, it’s part of the culture war for my tribe as well. What’s clear to me let conservatives push us around for years and always “going high when they go low” has been a huge mistake. The Republicans never pass up an opportunity and neither should the liberals. Teaching children math and that Republicans are bigots seems like a “win-win” situation to me.
Don’t be part of the problem please Mitch
Incivility breeds incivility, and given the recent outcome in Virginia, politics mixing with schools is a losing strategy for democrats, and great for republicans. Send a snarky tweet to an adult with the graph attached if you can’t help yourself but just teach the kids how to fit a damn curve already
People who value civility are civil to others. The Republicans have been pummeling my tribe for decades with the most vile insults imaginable. Democrats have spent thirty years or more of “going high when they go low” and simply refusing to hit back in the culture war.
As that great American philosopher Al Capone once said:
“I’m a kind person, I’m kind to everyone, but if you are unkind to me, then kindness is not what you’ll remember me for.”
Words to live by.
Oh dear Lord. Yes, you very much can choose what you believe. Or do you not believe that people are capable of 'following the science'?
Where do people come up with these idiotic notions?
Ever heard of a turn of phrase called “the emperor has no clothes”? It’s made for this situation
There is a difference between what you act like and what you believe. I have endless respect for someone who has deep conservative beliefs but still treats everyone with respect and dignity and values our civil institutions. Are you really going to dismiss every conservative Muslim with heterodox views on the role of women and the morality of LGBT behavior? You certainly have a different idea of the social contract than I do
In fact, it sounds like you would be much happier in a repressive society that tries harder than we do to suppress beliefs. May I suggest Russia or China?
You'e an idiot. No, you're a particularly idiotic troll.
FOAD. And don't come back, you piece of shite.
Never thought an idea as simple as “people should be able to believe what they want without government interference” would inspire such vitriol
It also explains why you get so mad when someone disagrees with you. Anyways, have a nice day and try to be more open-minded. Your intolerance of diverse opinions is insufferable
You do know people can see what you originally wrote, don't you? You claimed people had no choice in their beliefs. This was so jaw-droppingly stupid that I was obliged to point out how stupid this was.
Now fuck off, you numpty ball-bag.
If you have any respect for evidence, belief is not a matter of choice; it's a matter of where the evidence leads you. FAITH is a matter of choice since it does not depend on evidence.
Who cares if the graph is accurate? It's a dumb chart to put in to teach how to graph data. Plus the Y axis should start at 0.
Twenty years ago I would’ve agreed with you. But conservatives have spent decades twisting the arms to textbook companies to revise their textbooks to conform to the Republican worldview in all ways, big and small. At this point, there’s no longer room for tolerating that kind of thing.
The liberals and the left need to push back and even begin to respond in kind. This is a trivial example but there’s no reason why it should not be in a textbook.
I don't know how dubious it is in a state where the very conservative Governor and state legislature just passed a redistricting map explicitly designed to ensure that Black people don't get proportional representation.
How do you even "measure" racial prejudice? Show someone two pictures of a black guy and a white and ask "which one is about to mug you?"
There's no problem here. The data indicate a correlation between political identification and racism. Yes, it would be bad if the textbook then tells students that correlation implies causation, but there's not indication it does.
The same would absolutely be true if the subject was race and crime.
Affiliations with the Republican Party and an affinity for the Confederate battle flag might be valid considerations.
NO. The data indicate a correlation between political identification and an IAT score.
The CONTROVERSY is the claim that IAT score = racism score.
There are at least two issues
(a) Does an IAT score mean anything useful in any context (unclear)
(b) What does "Racist" actually mean?
Is it racist to say that in the US black people commit more crimes?
Is it racist to say that in the US black people have lower measured IQs?
Is it racist to say that affirmative action is wrong, things like jobs and university slots should be allocated in a color-blind way?
At least 90% of the racial animus in the US is the result of Motte-and-Bailey arguments by the Left -- beginning by insisting that anyone who disagrees with an entire program, everything from affirmative action to various factual claims, is a racist, retreating to closet-to-universally agreed claims about "legal and political equality" when challenged.
This sort of impossible-to-pin-down word is exactly where all the animus lies. If
- calling someone a racist is the worst thing one can do in modern America AND
- racist means whatever I want it to mean
Then you can hardly be surprised that those on the receiving end of these tactics are somewhat resentful...
Yup.
"(a) Does an IAT score mean anything useful in any context (unclear)"
It may not. That's not something answerable with the data provided and the statistical methods presented.
"(b) What does "Racist" actually mean?"
I suppose you got me there. The textbook doesn't address this issue. Do you think it should?
If you find yourself reasonably asking the question “is it total bullshit if I smear this group with racism in an unrelated educational setting?” Then the non-idiotic move is to find a different dataset on flower petal length or something
One of the purposes of education is to teach students to guard against unsupported emotional responses to information, such as accusing a dataset of constituting a "smear." It's easier to teach this with political data than with flower petal data.
Not in a math class.
Heh. Emphatically disagree. After teaching for more than twenty years -- that's math, mind you, not history or literature -- I am _strongly_ for material that engages the class.
Doubly so after the arrival of smart phones (I oftern wonder why they don't put schools in Farady cages, but some of my colleages tend to think this view is, er, rather extreme.)
And this is the only avenue to engage students?
Not to mention, I hear endlessly how certain topics can alienate kids and we should do away with them. Are kids from conservative families just not worth teaching? Telling them they are probably a racist seems likely to alienate them from the math lesson
How is the primary goal in a math class not just to teach them math? This isn’t the Hitler Youth or Red Guard, schools should be apolitical
Okay, you try it, troll. Report back when you get positive results. Now fuck off, you stupid, stupid right wing troll.
Wow!
"Math" teacher boasts about the important of teaching Woke theology in class; when confronted, calls anyone who disagrees with this viewpoint racist.
I can't imagine WHY parents are upset about this sort of thing happening in the classroom.
KD: I think you are falling for a Bill Barr manipulation. The article you cited posted only 4 examples of the many dozens that were rejected. I agree that the example provided is pretty bad but where is the rest. On another website (non-corroborated) there were several examples of other work that was banned and what was banned was very anodyne. I’m wondering if there something else going like money passing hands.
The only textbook publisher accepted by the Florida DOE is owned (indirectly) by Glenn Youngkin: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2022/04/19/desantis-textbooks-florida-woke-one-publisher-allowed-k-5-math-classes/7357965001/
It's time that we face it: Kevin Drum is basically a slightlier cleaner cut Howard Jarvis.
Kevin, you’re getting rolled. This is NOT an example from the textbooks submitted. From the article, “ the following are examples provided to the department by the public”. From context it is clear they are claiming some kind of non-$isclosure prohibits them from releasing the actual examples. Who knows where this is actually from, or if it is even real.
Bingo!!!
I haven't reviewed any of the rejected textbooks, but other's have:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/desantis-banned-textbooks-teach-kids-kindness-black-mathematicians-exist-florida
linked to:
https://popular.info/p/inside-the-dangerous-math-textbooks?s=w
This is because Drum is looking for ways to attack racial justice advocates.
If this is what those advocates cooked up then they probably deserve to be attacked for it. No looking required
If it's even real I agree it shouldn't be in a math text book, but it is in fact, true.
Old Kevin's critical faculties appear to be slipping. To present an image like that without documenting the name of the textbook, the publisher, copyright date, and page, is appallingly.
The graph looks suspiciously like something described in a Miami Herald article except with "age group" changed to leaning. So it does look like KD is getting rolled.
"One example: A colored bar chart showing how levels of racial bias can vary by age group. It is part of a mathematical brain teaser involving polynomial models and is nestled on the bottom right-hand corner of page 56 in a pre-calculus online textbook consisting of more than 1,000 pages. The book is not identified on the state’s website."
Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article260639257.html#storylink=cpy
Thanks for confirming what I had suspected. Remember how these people handle Covid statistics. They are most certainly not above making up stuff.
The WaPo article Kevin links has sample images, but doesn't link to the Florida DOE statement they came from (there is a link to the DOE statement saying textbooks were rejected for thoughtcrime, but that statement doesn't have any of the sample images). I wanna see the original DOE statement these images came from, and see if that statement gives any way to independently verify the textbook content. Given Florida's record of cooking Covid case numbers and inoculation rates, I ain't gonna believe anything state officials say unless I can get independent confirmation.
To answer your question, no, those images are not taken from any textbook. What appears to be going on is a rouse the base (who appear to be extremely gullible) operation concurrent with a little (a lot, considering volume sales) of graft on the side.
The absolute best I can say of the this scummy affair is I don't know which motivation was ascendant.
@drickard1967
All indications are this is FAKE NEWS, disinformation to feed the moral panic going on in the GOP base, in the mainstream media, and with gullible anti-woke tools like Kevin Drum.
There's been an active and nefarious propaganda campaign going on in social media for weeks (at least). Someone claiming to be a parent of a schoolchild shows a picture of a dubious example of woke educational material. Hundreds or thousands click the Like button. But it turns out the material is actually not used in offending schools or states. It's fake. Some of it is completely made up but circulated widely.
When pushed to show examples of the offensive material, Florida crowd-sourced the evidence. It's a bunch of garbage. They have not verified the material. DeSantis and his admin have no credibility and you shouldn't take them at their word. Don't be suckers.
https://www.rawstory.com/ron-desantis-math-books-fraud/
https://twitter.com/emanzi/status/1516089320423235587
ACTUAL QUESTIONS
3. "After suffering childhood abuse, Angelou became mute for ___ years."
5. "After the encouragement of writer John Oliver Killens, in 1959 Angelou moved to ___ to focus on her writing."
DOCTORED EVIDENCE USED AS EXAMPLE OF OFFENDING MATERIAL
3. "Angelou was sexually abused by her mother's ___ at age 8, which shaped her career choices and motivation for writing. (Boyfriend, Brother, Father)"
5. "Trying to support her son as a single mother, she worked as a pimp, prostitute and ___. (Bookie, Drug Dealer, Nightclub Dancer)"
It is possible that the Maya Angelou page with the more controversial content is the one referred to here: https://21cmp.blogspot.com/
It was created for use in a very particular context, posted online briefly, and withdrawn by the author upon reflection, believing that the intended context was too difficult to convey in an online resource. It was never included in a textbook nor adopted by any school administrators, to the author’s knowledge. If the page referred to in the blog is the page whose image has been circulated, it was not created with malicious intent, and is not a fake. It was an attempt by the teacher/author to assist students in avoiding exploitation. Read and judge for yourself.
Completely agree, Kevin! It hurts me deeply to agree with something Florida Republicans are doing with education, and I've read all the stuff ridiculing them for messing with math textbooks. But given that there are literally thousands of different bar graphs with no political implications that could have been used in a math textbook, it's quite OBVIOUS that someone wanted to sneak in an argument about ideology and racism, and do it in the most inflammatory way.
Now the only question is whether this is REALLY what's in the textbook, or something made up by Florida Republicans. If it's real, then it's truly appalling and I (a solid liberal) agree it should be removed.
Except none of those examples were found in the cancelled books. It is fake.
By the way, I've also taken the "implicit bias" test. It does not measure "racial prejudice"; it measures "implicit bias." Those are not the same thing. Implicit bias is a subconscious phenomenon that probably appears in all human beings regardless of conscious beliefs about other humans. Racial prejudice (pre-judging based on race) is a conscious decision. I suspect that we all struggle with the need to subjugate tribalist instincts that persist due to our evolutionary history as primates.
Racial prejudice (pre-judging based on race) is a conscious decision
This is part of the problem here. For most people, racism is using the n-word, separate drinking fountains, the klan burning a cross in your yard. You know, conscious demonstrations of holding another race in contempt. But most racism in our society today operates through implicit bias and structural inequalities, which are harder to explain to people (and what CRT does, in part).
Looking at the WaPo article, there is really only one egregious example (repeated three times) and one fairly tame statement about social and emotional learning.
If this example is about cubic polynomials, this is at least high-school level math, and it's not a terrible idea to include social and political examples in high school (although something so nakedly partisan is obviously asking for trouble.)
What really gets me is how bad the actual math in this one example is. Modeling the bar chart with a cubic polynomial?! With an ordinal scale on the x-axis?! And the y-axis doesn't even start at 0! This isn't woke math, it's just terrible math.
Another thing being overlooked is that these four examples are being used to justify banning 54 textbooks!
The examples are from books that aren't even on the list of banned books. It's nothing but theater to rile up the base and dupe useful idiots.
There is something very fishy about the example Kevin has pulled from the Washington Post article . I think at least one of the 4 examples has already been debunked. I don't think Snopes has had a chance to do their due diligence yet but I think it's better than even odds (50/50) that these 4 examples are not kosher (hey, it's still Passover for another day).
Writing math textbooks is hard. Writing math textbooks that please committees in both Texas and California is much, much harder. Now Florida will make it harder still.
Really hard to believe that a company put together a textbook with just the kind of racial panic bait that DeSantis and the social warriors are looking for......relying on submitted screenshots for 'proof' of the racial panic issue of the moment is pretty convenient.
We don't all have to be suckers.
Like Tara Reade's choice to swear crotchless stockings on the very day joebiden assaulted her.
At what school level do Florida students learn about polynomial regression? The whole image screams "fake" and I'm stunned that Kevin would wax so indignant about it without even knowing what book it's supposed to be from.
+
Nothing about Kevin Drum showing that his favorite Beach Boy has always been Mike Love is surprising.
Yep, I want to know what textbook is this from, who published it, how many copies were printed, and how many were sold.
I smell a nut picking at least, or maybe an outright scam.
If that's Florida's understanding of what CRT is, clearly the Florida schools have been failing their state administrators for some time, now.
This is benign shit. If Florida wants to make racism politically correct, they should just say, "Hey, it's okay to be racist."
I’m with Doctor Jay - are these examples real and representative?
But as a psychologist with a cognitive inclination, I wouldn’t use an example with strong political valence except when I wanted to teach about confirmation bias (which I would argue to put in a psychology course, along with a larger discussion of cognitive biases and heuristics). I think it is appropriate, in fact essential, to teach a critical approach to data in a mathematics course, given that data is used and misused often in argument; but when strong prior beliefs are likely present, they will deflect from the focus on analytical tools and methods.
i) In the US, self-described "very-conservative" persons are much more likely than average to hold racist views. This isn't exactly a breaking story.
ii) Textbook publishers should avoid gratuitously insulting Republicans. Doing so isn't in their commercial interest, and is unnecessarily picking fights.
iii) There's a well-funded, right wing professional grievance-mongering industry that will always find something for the Murdoch megaphone to blow up nationally. This is unavoidable.
All three things can be true.
The real question is why Kevin is so trusting of conservatives accusing the “woke” generation of overreach, but goes to painstaking efforts to nitpick away racism and misogyny by conservatives.
Even if this WAS true, it’s one (it looks like a single lesson) example that hardly justifies eliminating 54 textbooks. But rather than focusing on the sparseness of the justification for the bans and the dubious evidence of “overreach” by textbook writers, Kevin takes this obvious mix of bullshit and lies at face value to pull a “maybe the racist conservatives in Florida have a point” argument out of his ass.
The Republicans have a whole network spewing out bullshit for them. Why is Kevin helping them out?
Kevin Drum was a lifelong liberal Democrat, then shitlib textbook writers used actual data to demonstrate a middle school lesson on percentages.
I have no idea how to solve this problem. Aside from the obvious y-axis issues, what does x represent in the polynomial? Is x the group number? That's silly, so obviously not. Someone want to attempt explaining this?
You're 100% correct: there is no reasonable way to solve this problem. But the unreasonable way to do this is to assume x is indeed the group number against y, the number in each group. Whoever owns up to writing this question should be summarily dismissed from whichever group responsible for content creation.
I think you're right. Perhaps we should teach kids to identify which animals clouds resemble as well.