Rich Lowry, editor-in-chief of National Review, says:
Axios has a story up, headlined, “Trump, GOP plot 2025 criminal probe of Bidens.” I generally favor leaving former presidents alone, but, as I’ve noted before, it’s hard to see how one side can violate this norm and not expect the precedent to be turned against it.
A "norm"? Is he kidding? Bill Clinton lost his law license and then was disbarred by the Supreme Court after he left office. This was a direct result of the jihad against Clinton led by Ken Starr and the Republican Party.
Richard Nixon was most certainly criminally responsible for his part in Watergate, but he was pardoned by a fellow Republican.
On the other hand, Democrats left George Bush Sr. alone despite considerable evidence about his role in the Iran-Contra affair. They left George Bush Jr. alone despite considerable evidence of his role in torturing prisoners and other war crimes.
The only norm that's been broken over the past few years is (a) the norm that former presidents obey they law just like anyone else, and (b) the fact that it's a Republican being prosecuted this time.
I mean, put aside all the other cases and just consider the classified documents case. It's open and shut. It's not that Trump took some documents when he left office, it's the fact that he repeatedly and persistently refused to give them back even after being ordered to. There's a "norm" that ex-presidents don't do that. What possible choice did Jack Smith have except to charge Trump?
The E. Jean Carroll case had nothing to do with Democrats and was decided unanimously by a jury of 12. The business fraud case was likewise a state trial that had nothing to do with Democrats and will ultimately be decided on appeal. And the Georgia case—well, we'll see what happens with that. But the probability of criminal conduct on Trump's part is pretty strong. In the end, a jury will decide.
As for the January 6 case, it's based on the "norm" that presidents not incite riots at the Capitol in order to prevent Congress from certifying election results they don't like. Here's what Lowry had to say about it at the time:
The rioters themselves bear ultimate responsibility for their acts, but Trump egged them on. He fed them poisonous lies about the election.... He encouraged them to come to Washington and said they wouldn’t stand for his “landslide” victory getting taken away.... He whipped them up on Wednesday...and urged them to march on the Capitol... When the mob overwhelmed security and made its way on the Senate and House floors, sending Vice President Pence and lawmakers fleeing, Trump tweeted about how he’d been wronged by Pence’s entirely correct view that he lacks the power as vice president to unilaterally declare him the victor.
This is what Trump is on trial for.
Needless to say, the difference with the Bidens is that Hunter is already being tried and Joe hasn't done anything wrong. I realize that's a technicality in Republican-land, but for the rest of us it's a pretty big difference.
Rationalizing and normalizing utter non-sense. Welcome to modern-day Republican party!
Rich Lowry is pathetic. If he had any power at all, he’d be evil.
As it is, he’s a macabre joke.
Republicans are advertising what they plan to do if Trump wins, and so-called "normal" republicans are all for it. If Biden loses in November then he must pardon his entire family, his entire administration, and himself before leaving office. Otherwise it will be 4 years of show trials.
Also Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Plus all of the attorneys and judges prosecuting Trump (well, except for Cannon).
Even if he does, though, I’m sure Trump would prosecute them anyway. Trump has two purposes in running for President, keeping himself out of prison and revenge.
... I would add, and further enriching himself. He really didn't do a very good job last time -- hotel rooms? nickel and dime sh!t, man -- and Jared made him look kinda small-time. Next term he'll do a lot better.
It is the Republican way, after all.
stock rallied late, so only dropped 8.4% today!
Wonder how many short time short sellers there are vs long termers.
Shorter sellers are taking it in the neck. Stock needs tovreach 0 cents in five weeks to over the interest costs for shorting the stock. The only people making money are people who got the stock pre-opening and are charging 700% interest to people shorting it.
I'm thinking short sellers are the ones keeping the price up (relatively speaking) in the short term.
AIUI, you can't short the stock yet, but you can buy puts. Problem is the puts are damned expensive, because everyone expects the stock to continue to tank.
What a nonsense.
He wans to do population suppression, like Putin, Xi and Kim do (and Hitler did). That what he ragard as the ultimate achievement, and he wants to achieve it too.
Kevin, laws exist to protect Republicans and punish Others. This is the norm that is being violated, and it is why prosecution of Trump but not Biden is Unfair. It has nothing to do with anything they actually did or didn't do. And now that Trump is being prosecuted, Biden must be prosecuted, because I Know You Are But What Am I?
Republicans are like little children: bundles of unconstrained Id. If they don't get what they want right now, or if they have to do or accept something they don't want to, then it's unfair! See also, eg, election results.
+10 for understanding and deploying Trumpian capitalization principles. ALL CAPS = shouting. Single Cap = word intended to Stand Out, but in a subtle way.
You misunderstood Lowry; the norm he was talking about is IOKIYAR.
republicans will charge biden with blatantly refusing to break the law, thus making their propagandists' lives difficult
Archive.org early.
Archive.org often…
The weird thing about the Lowry claim is that it misses that there have already been 2023 criminal probes of Biden by a partisan Republican Congress. It has only not produced impeachment charges because they can't find any actual evidence. This does not get easier when you have to make the charges in a court of law. There was also the Durham probe that doesn't get called a probe of the Bidens only because it couldn't get close enough to Biden to look like one.
The courts are generally not favorable to Republicans when it comes to criminal trials because the courts require evidence and punish lying, and that crimps the style of the Republicans.
Yeah, but Drumpf judges are going to change all that silly nonsense. See, e.g., Judge Cannon, Judge Kacsmaryk. And judges appointed in the Fourth Reich (AKA a second Drumpf regime) may make these guys look like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Louis Brandeis, and Felix Frankfurter.
Lowry simply cannot navigate these tumultuous times. The Conservative party that he believed on is full of vengeful troglodytes without a compass, the opposite of what he ascribes. Every time he calls out for a formulation he sees it disintegrate in real time. It really must be tough being him, and unlike another blind prophet of our times, he prefers not to dwell in minutiae like George Will. I think Fukuyama was half right, we have not so much reach the end history but we have reached the end of conservatism and thus we hear the nonsense he spews.
While I generally agree with your line of reasoning, I do have a material exception. Hillary Clinton's claims (followed by other senior Democratic leaders such as Carter), after losing the election, that 'the Russians hacked our election', 'Trump was not a legitimate President' etc....this was norm braking.
Further, while its likely Trump's actions after losing to Biden would be unchanged, I think Clinton's action made it easier for Republicans to claim that Trump won the election...
Unless you're saying that the norm breaking was "actually holding Republicans accountable for election fuckery" unlike when it happened in 1968 and 1980 and 2000 and just letting things ride, then this is not quite accurate.
yeah there's this little difference between saying things that are TRUE and saying things that are PROVEN FALSE, and "oh dear oh dear how uncivil" doesn't come anywhere close to making up for that.
Republicans were always gonna scream "unfair! stolen! fraud!" because that's what they do when they lose. They increasingly simply cannot process facts, much less setbacks or complexity, the way adults do: it must be their way all the time or UNFAIR!!
Clinton's mistake was that it wasn't only the Russians that tried to help Trump win it was also the NYT and WaPO that regurgitated daily GOP outrage about everything Hillary Clinton ever did and reporting it as "news". One really does have to wonder how elections would turn out if the MSM were allowed to call obvious bullshit out as bullshit instead of pretending it might be true.
correct me if i'm wrong but i do believe that clinton conceded the election when it became apparent that trump won pa, mich and wisc. again, correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall clinton or her campaign filing an endless stream of lawsuits claiming fraud had changed the outcome of the election. in fact, i do recall the green party asking for recounts in those states and clinton not participating.
beyond that, there is no doubt that russia interfered in the election in multiple ways but it was never claimed by clinton or anyone of any rank in her campaign or the democratic party that russia tampered with the results or that trump's win therefore was illegitimate.
Clinton supported the green party in their request for a MI recount.
OK, but capitalizing the first letter of the first word in a sentence is not a fascist, communist, or any other kind of plot to oppress anyone but is for readability. Please find your Shift key or learn how to do capital letters on your phone or tablet.
Hillary conceded the election the day after, while Orange Jesus, to this day, is still screaming that the 2020 election was rigged. Hillary's comments cited are from 2019, almost 3 years after the election.
Its real simple, the current MAGA GOP only believes an election is legitimate if they win. The real breaking of such norms was the "lock her up" chants that started in 2016.
If Biden loses, he should pardon everyone in his administration and everyone who is likely to be on Il Duce's enemies list. Perhaps moving to the Republic of Ireland would be an idea, assuming they promise not to extradite him
You do know that HRC received millions more votes than Trump, right? And that it was only because of Democratic "norm-respecting" that Trump took office despite losing the election by millions of votes, right?
Don't be a hack. You're misquoting her. For the fucking record, here's what Clinton wrote in her book What Happened:
Why did she say that? Because that's what happened.
Read more at the link.
Do you know what she did on the morning after the 2016 election? She said, "Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country." She conceded. Something Trump never did.
I generally give people latitude to have their own opinions, even wrong ones. But to insinuate in any way it's Clinton's fault for Trump failing to concede, claiming he lost a stolen election, and leading a violent insurrection to overturn the results of the 2020 election, is not only wrong but dangerously wrong. You're spreading disinformation. You're working against the forces that are trying to save our democracy. Stop being a fucking hack!
Well said, sir.
Love this logic. Hillary Clinton is to blame because she mentioned Russia helping Donald. NORMBREAKING! It wasnt Donald begging Russia for help that influenced his loyal followers, it was Hillary commenting on it.
Lol, my goodness. BUT HER EMAILS!!
It was her fault I cheated on her and stole her car! She kept accusing me of trying to cheat on her and steal her things. She made it easier for me to do it!!
Fuck off with that both sides bullshit
Oh please. To loosely paraphrase Disraeli (though the quote is likely apocryphal), there is nonsense, there is errant nonsense, and there is posts like these.
I don't recall anyone significant saying Trump was not a legitimate president (there are always a few nutcases that will say anything). The fact that he didn't get a majority of the popular vote was noted, but the people noting it also admitted that it's the EC that counts under the existing rules. Russian interference was also noted, but I don't recall anybody saying that meant that Trump needed to be ousted and the election done over. In short, no significant commentator ever denied that Trump WON THE 2016 ELECTION.
Too late - was busy driving to, watching the eclipse and driving back - but
DON’T FEED THE TROLL. It isn’t arguing in good faith and it lives for throwing shit against the wall like a monkey.
The Russians did successfully hack the 2016 election. The extent of the damage has never been released. But there is no question it happened, even Rubio and De’Santis admitted it is true. Rubio said:
“In an interview on Friday, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida took it one step further, saying that Russian hackers not only accessed a Florida voting system, but were “in a position” to change voter roll data.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/florida-russia-hacking-election.html
He said they were in a position to change things but didn’t. Put the shoe on the other foot. If California was close and a foreign government sympathetic to Clinton hacked California’s computers but Nancy Pelosi said they didn’t do anything would Republicans believe that? What would they do?
Sorry but you are a dishonorable liar. Hillary conceded as soon as the vote count made clear she had lost. She didn't ask for a single recount or contest the election, whereas Trump asked for and receive multiple recounts ( in fact every recount he requested.) While it is true that she said years late he wasn't a legitimate president, this was after Trump published the summary of his call with the Ukrainian president irrefutably proving he had committed high crimes and misdemeanors.
I’m seeing a pattern of justifying bad actors by denying them agency. We’ve heard it from some of the defenders of Israel’s excesses in Gaza, and now this silly argument, that we just have to accept that Republicans will go lower than Democrats.
Concern troll is concerned. Duly noted.
Ahh, yes, 'rule breaking' by... observing and warning of dangers?
Wait! Rich Lowry is JUST ANOTHER GOP HACK?! /s
It is indisputable that for his entire career he has been a professional liar.
I think Republicans of RIch Lowry's ilk will never give up thinking "we're the normal ones, in comparison to those crazy hippies over there". It's deep in their worldview to believe they are righteous and everyone else is crazy.
"...but for the rest of us it's a pretty big difference."
See above comments;"the rest of us" don't f***ing matter. Morals, ethics, the rule of law, don't matter. The only things that matter are power, privilege, and revenge. Lowry, of whom all I know is what's reposted here, is a rank propagandist but at least he's honest. Justice? Means nothing. Nothing. Power, privilege, and revenge mean everything. Even the supposedly sober Republicans of yesteryear never forgot Nixon and never will. This is who they are, no matter how 'reasonable' you might find them when their power and privilege are not in question. Of course they'll charge Biden. American 'conservatism' is now, and in truth has always been, deeply sympathetic to authoritarianism and authoritarians. And the more our increasingly shaky global reality demands major shifts in who we are and how we live on this planet, the worse they're going to get. This will not change. It will only get worse, and rationally arguing against it like doing so will have any real effect is like arguing with a black mamba.
These people are gone, over the edge and they're not coming back. This is our lot, like Ukraine's existential fight against Putin. We're in a bad time, really bad, and there's no easy way out.
The Republican Party and it followers are beyond redemption. And yet they might win the presidential election with their coalition of fascist billionaires, anti-abortion evangelicals and other religious crazies.
The world must be astonished as the one time leader of the free world teeters on the brink of abandoning its European Allies. Just think of the dominos set to fall if America fails to support Ukraine. From Taiwan to South Korea to the rest of Eastern Europe and more.
Putin learned in 2016 that misinformation via social media could propel an obscene psychopath into the presidency. He’s doing it again right now.
No matter how much Trump lies, no matter how much he and his policies impinge on citizen’s freedoms Republicans are on board. Sad for America and Americans if he wins.
TFG was never the leader of the free world. I grant that he was lawfully, though undemocratically, elected President, but leadership of the free world is a thing one actually has to perform.
I grant that he was lawfully, though undemocratically, appointed President . . .
FIFY
Lest we forget that the Trump DOJ was already investigating Biden and other political targets while Trump was President. This is not a change in approach that only came after some mean Democrat did something first.
This has always been his approach and we shoule absolutely expect more of it if he wins the election. Nothing caused him to do this, it is always who he has been.
"... The business fraud case was likewise a state trial that had nothing to do with Democrats ..."
State officials can be and in this case are Democrats.
Chris Christie, when asked which of the 4 cases he'd like to prosecute said Mar-a-Lago documents WITH THE PROVISO that it only be obstruction and not Espionage Act because the latter involves many complications. Christie wanted a simple obstruction of justice prosecution, which doesn't involve elaborate procedures and doesn't give the defense opportunities to raise objection after objection regarding clearances, declassification, and other aspects involving national security. Smith committed a major, and possibly fatal, error by not hewing exclusively to obstruction.
IANAL, but the Espionage Act applies to ‘national defense information’, without reference to classification, or for that matter the Presidential Records Act. An impartial judge would have immediately rejected the arguments by TFG’s defense team based on those irrelevant issues.
Christie has long been a TV celebrity role-playing a legal expert.
The "norm" was to "Not Break The Law".