A new mask study has been getting a lot of attention. It tested thousands of people in Bangladeshi villages and came to two conclusions: (a) masks work, and (b) surgical masks work better than cloth masks. A 28 percentage point increase in surgical mask wearing within a village reduced COVID-19 incidence from 0.76% to 0.67%.
But there was also this odd result:
An increase in mask wearing within a village had zero effect on subjects under the age of 50. The entire effect is for those 50 and older. That deserves a whole lot of attention since it's such an unexpected result. What is it about older age that makes mask wearing so effective?
Generally speaking, I have to confess that I've given up on masks as a way of reducing COVID-19 spread. The people who hate masks are simply never going to give in on this, especially since it's a very public behavior and, it's worth acknowledging, a genuinely annoying one. Some people may not mind masks, but a lot of us, including me, find them uncomfortable.
I don't mind if other people want to continue going after mask policies, but I no longer think they have much chance of working. At this point, our energies are better used on vaccination and nothing else.
The mask era is winding down.
That's stupid.
Masks are working in blue-er areas. The mandates help purple areas do better.
The red areas want to express their fealty to Tucker Carlson, et al, and you aren't going to change that
We can't limit policy to only what we think will help those dedicated to failure.
Perhaps those over 50 are more conscientious about wearing their mask?
Bingo
Certainly true in the USA
I wear a mask so I don't spread any germs I might have. And I try very hard to keep my distance between myself and others.
I have respiratory problems that make mask wearing quite uncomfortable, so I've considerably reduced my going out-and-about to reduce the time when I have to wear a mask. (I'm retired, so unavoidable excursions are few.)
And I know that, as a mask wearer, I get very little protection from germs cast in my direction -- which is another reason why I reduce my time away from home.
The higher the proportion of population that wears masks, the better (particularly when so many people are still not vaccinated, and younger kids are just walking, talking reservoirs of germs of all sorts).
I wear N95 masks to protect me.
When I see these mask studies I almost never see N95’s referenced. I wonder to what extent there is a difference. Also, do the studies account for proper mask wearing. I see so many people whose mask falls off their nose when they talk.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and I haven’t had a problem with discomfort. But I was in an area that had higher humidity and temperature recently and my mask got uncomfortable particularly when walking briskly.
N95s require training to achieve the extra protection. No facial hair allowed. Also, much more expensive and less comfortable. Only used by healthcare workers when in high risk environments, like ER or ICU, or dealing with an unmasked covid patient.
Some people may not mind masks, but a lot of us, including me, find them uncomfortable.
Oh come ON, Kevin, it’s not that anyone thinks they’re not “uncomfortable,” it’s that most of us do not mind suffering a LITTLE bit of discomfort and annoyance TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF OUR FELLOW CITIZENS.
People who refuse to wear masks aren’t doing it because they are somehow uniquely sensitive to the discomfort (the poor snowflakes) but rather because they are SELFISH ASSH0LES.
Enough with coddling those children. Jeezus.
Well, Mr Drum has breathing problems that makes wearing a filtering facepiece-type mask difficult, not merely "uncomfortable."
That said, yeah, MOST of those who refuse to wear masks are making a political statement, "comfort" be darned. They'd willingly tote around a 20# military-style rifle without complaint, in spite of not being in military-grade shape, and act as if they were proud of it. Their arguments are pretty much all in bad faith and ought to be treated as such.
Indeed, and ditto, say, my 95-y/o mother, who has partially collapsed lungs etc, but nevertheless masks up when she has to, not least because she knows the importance of protecting people like Kevin (and herself).
But as to the LARGE majority of those “reluctant” to wear masks, they should not merely have their “arguments” (they’re not arguments; they’re childish emotional outbursts) considered as “bad faith.” They should be banned from public places and shunned elsewhere by adults. They should be treated like children throwing a tantrum (which in fact they are): they should be put by themselves in a corner.
Older people are more concerned about their health, so actually wear the mask.
Younger people will ignore social distancing if they have a mask, whether or not it is being worn properly. Wearing masks all day at work, then going out afterwards to eat and drink with friends defeats the benefits of mask wearing.
Masks can be annoying, but it's something you can easily get used to. High temperatures and humidity are about the only times it becomes truly uncomfortable. The over the top drama over mask wearing wears thin. The bottom line, though, is other factors come into play too. I think it was a Brit who said, you can either have schools or pubs open, but not both.
Annoying... well Mr. Drum outed himself with that! LOL
I have to wear a mask at work all day. Funny... since I work in clean rooms, I've been doing this for going on 20 years. I think you all are just... pussy cats. Or something like that.
Do older people breathe through their mouths more?
The study referenced used cloth or surgical masks. The overall mask-wearing compliance rate was 42%. I'm not surprised that they found an 11% benefit with that level of compliance and that type of mask.
Unlike at the start of the pandemic, KF-94 and KN-95 masks are readily available. If they fit well and they're legitimate items rather than knock offs, two big "ifs" I realize, they probably provide more benefit than the masks in this study, especially in areas where not everyone is wearing their mask.
i find masks annoying too, but likely less annoying than contracting the disease.
At the very least, I would think that people wearing masks are more careful about their interactions with other people, even if they are wearing the kind of masks that are not particularly effective. The masks are kind of a reminder.
I think the u.s. has reached a level of vaccination that allows me to be kinda sorta ok with people not getting a shot. But I’m also much more than kinda sorta ok with banning such people from restaurants, concerts etc. Even if you have a perfectly good reason for not getting a shot, not getting one is an attack on other people. They can just wait for Eric Clapton to go on tour before being allowed in crowds.
Until my kid pre-pre schooler can get vaccinated I am not fucking okay at all.
How have the Japanese kept the rate of infection far lower despite little vaccination? One difference is that mask compliance is far higher, although compliance with other restrictions is also higher.
Of course there may be other factors such as exposure to different strains.
Yeah, Kevin, well over 50 and immunocompromised (I do sympathize, but you regularly make it a topic of discussion, so it isn't out of bounds), surely doesn't need to mask
Having to brush my teeth is annoying. I'll keep it up, though, and I'll risk annoying family members by reminding them to brush theirs.
Masks will remain a thing for big events, supermarkets, and kids in school, as it should. The defectors are just that, defectors, the more you push your policy, the more they look marginalized. Aside from that, Biden should mandate vaccinations for air travel, which will further marginalize the irresponsive into a corner, where you want then and where they belong.
In my Canadian province, NL, 1’st vaccination rates are 87% with both vaccinations approaching 70% and the province no longer requires masks. The university, however, requires everyone to wear a mask on campus. Still, in stores, most people wear masks. We have been probably among the safest places on the planet and following health guidelines made our lives easier and case loads minimal, only 7 deaths and about 1,500 cases total. I suspect we will be back to a mask mandate later this fall. I do not like wearing a mask, but have greatly benefited from the fact that everybody did. Between the anti vaccination folks and those sick of masks, Covid will never go away in the US; with the delta variant, herd immunity re covid requires 90% of the population to be vaccinated. The fewer people protected the more likely more transmissible and virulent strains will evolve. This has always been the choice with infectious diseases. Pre vaccinations susceptible people just died, leaving those less susceptible to breed, until eventually there were enough susceptible people again and the outbreak returned , over and over until the industrial revolution and sanitation, modern medicine etc. How quickly we forget.
Between the anti vaccination folks and those sick of masks, Covid will never go away in the US...
It's never going away in Canada either, or in any other country for that matter. There have been quite a few episodes of zoonotic coronavirus spillover affecting our species, some going back to the ice age. This is one of them. Normally time — and changes to genes (both ours and the virus's) — conspire to make them manageable. IIRC some five common colds that regularly infect homo sapiens are caused by coronaviruses.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/science/ancient-coronavirus-epidemic.html
There's no reason to think this time will be any different.
This study had such a low level of compliance with mask use that it tells us very little, IMHO.
"The intervention increased proper mask-wearing from 13.3% in control
villages (N=806,547 observations) to 42.3% in treatment villages (N=797,715 observations) (adjusted percentage point difference = 0.29 [0.27, 0.31]). This tripling of mask usage was sustained during the intervention period and two weeks after. Physical distancing increased from24.1% in control villages to 29.2% in treatment villages (adjusted percentage point difference
= 0.05 [0.04, 0.06]). A
Ron DeSanity sez,
Drinking blood out of the hollowed out skull of your neighbor's dead baby doesn't bother me, and it doesn't really bother anyone else, either. But it is a great seasonal scary look for the American family and it's a great way of staying healthy because it sure seems to scare away the mask-wearing covid spreaders and liberals and people you don't like who are just trying to frighten you unnecessarily with fear of death.
Here is a study by the Objectively Pro-Terrorist Deep State Socialist Antifa Stanford Medical:
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html?fbclid=IwAR1mLnBPSZX7VeAISX_aTYz8rMRgmNp1GGWA98oQR1N5Uf9Q4ZipqIjrja8
This is the same study that Kevin is referring to, FYI.
Complaining about mask wearing in the middle of a pandemic is a good example of just how immature, spoiled, and irresponsible the average American has become.
Americans need to keep whining at least until we reach one million dead.
Looks to me like we could get there by Christmas.
Its not an odd result. Covid seems to be tilted significantly towards the old.
Out of California's 65,000 deaths, only 4800 are below the age of 40.
As this was done in Bangladesh, the follow up was based on self reporting of symptoms, followed by some blood follow up, if I read it right.
If under 50s are much more likely to have asymptomatic or non-symptomatic covid, then, in a study which relies on people reporting symptoms, well, the results are going to be skewed by making the older cohorts look like it had more of an effect.
It may well have had the same effect on the young, but if the young are something like 90% less likely to die (as appears to be the case in CA), then all it takes is for the young to also be some high number, like 90% less likely to be sympotomatic, and you won't see much difference in mask wearing.
In other words, all it took was for a bunch of younger Bangladeshis to be asymptomatic and it would skew the results.
I think. Anyway, all this proves is that a huge segment of the US could care less about other people, their desire to not be told what to do simply outweighs everything else.
I have a friend who travels to Amarillo from SoCal regularly. His latest story is about a 50 year old Texas guy who won't get vaxed and thinks Covid and masks are made up.
This would not be remarkable except for the fact that his wife is a 30 year veteran RESPIRATORY ER NURSE, and actually retired early because she could not take constant exposure to the death rate from Covid patients at her hospital.
This is how much value this crowd assigns to sticking it to the libs. I can't imagine the discussions at that dinner table, to the extent there are any.
> their desire to not be told what to do simply outweighs everything else.
And yet, like sheep, they follow their Fox News leadership.
+1
Note KD said, "Generally speaking, I have to confess that I've given up on masks as a way of reducing COVID-19 spread." He didn't say masks won't help, just that "the people who hate masks are simply never going to give in on this". So achieving widespread use in many places is difficult or impossible.
In the Dallas suburb where I live, I'd say just 25% of people wear masks in public. Before vaccinations it was around 85% wore them, but the delta surge has not motivated the majority to wear them again. Of course Gov. Abbott outlawing mask mandates set a strong tone against masks in general. Leadership matters. Can't wait to vote against him. I'll be voting for Matthew McConaughey, haha.
Owning Limousine liberals. Left wing populism like myself, is not easy to attack.
Of they are retarded citizens, who are genetically inferior.
I am retired. I have 4 grandchildren who cannot be vaccinated. One granddaughter spends 4-5 days a week in my household. Two grandchildren are here once a week. and the youngest is 4 weeks old who I see 3 times a week. I would never consider compromising their security for my comfort. Masks are and will be part of my routine until this virus is gone
We had a fairly dramatic demonstration of how well no masking works in my neck of the woods this week.
A local school district went back into session last week, full time, full capacity, no masks. By this week so many students and staff were infected that they were forced to return to virtual "learning". This is a small district with a single campus which serves K-8 and about 500 students. Delta ripped through it pretty damn quick. So far the mask required Bozeman school district, which is nearby (~10 miles away in the same county), has made it through the first week. We'll see. In the meantime the governor has issued and order which would nullify district mask requirements "because of a lack of clear results from RCT's on mask usage and COVID-19". Interesting that they are focusing only on RCT's.
So I went looking for some decent literature reviews on this topic. The CDC of course has a good page summarizing the evidence, but it's the CDC and why would you listen to them, they're just part of the mask industrial complex, blah, blah, blah. But I also found this review from earlier this year which was published in PNAS, which seemed quite good. It also has a section explaining why getting decent results from RCT's is hard.
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
Needless to say, there is strong evidence that masks work as a means of source control.
Surgical masks.
Interesting data coming out of both Israel and the UK
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9951117/Israel-worlds-Covid-hotspot-0-2-population-catching-yesterday.html
{snip}
Israel has become the Covid capital of the world despite leading the charge on vaccines, in a clear warning sign that Britain, the US and other highly-immunised nations are still vulnerable to another wave.
Stats compiled by Oxford University-backed research team Our World in Data shows there were a record 1,892 Covid cases per million people in Israel on Wednesday — nearly 0.2 per cent of the entire population in a single day.
That was significantly higher than second worst-hit Mongolia, where the rate was 1,119 per million, and double the figures for Kosovo (980), Georgia (976) and Montenegro (909), which rounded out the top five
{snip}
Mu has arrived in the Dominican Republic and the UK and many scientists are now getting convinced Mu may be vaccine resistant. The S African variant according to some Israeli scientists is HIGHLY resistant to vaccine and NATURAL antibodies for those people protected from having CV19 prior
WHO has designated Wu as a variant of concern(?)
From what little I know Wu is bad but doesn't get passed on as easily as Delta but more easily the the earlier versions.
The S African variant, which is decimating Peru has BOTH high levels of transmission (2X delta) and vaccine protection evasion.
With COVID surging in the UK people are really afraid of another lock down (Hence Faucci saying it's nothing to worry about in the IMMEDIATE future).
COVID fears are rising again
Covid has already surged in the uk. Just hasnt translated to actual sickness. Make better posts.
> The people who hate masks are simply never going to give in on this
I hate masks, and yet I wear them in public. Maybe you mean "the irresponsible people who hate masks..."
And right on cue
Mu found in LA County:
https://ktla.com/news/public-health-officials-closely-monitor-mu-variant-of-covid-19/
{snip}
Although further studies are needed to determine if the mu variant is more contagious than other COVID-19 strains, it has been found to have key mutations linked to greater transmissibility and the potential to evade antibodies, the department said.
“This is what makes getting vaccinated and layering protections so important. These are actions that break the chain of transmission and limits COVID-19 proliferation that allows for the virus to mutate into something that could be more dangerous,” Ferrer said.
{snip}
It is evading vaccine and natural anti body protection
ANYTHING we can do - vaccines, masks, social distancing - should become the norm
It has been raging in Peru and other parts of S America for months
Pfizer should have a variant specific vaccine ready to roll out - correct?
Nah, probably not
And even Fox news is getting in on the action:
https://www.fox13news.com/news/c-1-2-variant-new-coronavirus-strain-has-highest-mutation-rate-yet-study-says
{snip}
A recent study identified a new coronavirus strain that has the potential to become a variant of concern — like the alpha, beta and delta variants, which have slammed countries around the world with heavy waves of new COVID-19 infections and deaths.
The newest strain, dubbed C.1.2, comes from the same lineage as the beta variant from South Africa, according to the study, and was first identified in May 2021.
Researchers noted that it was "unexpected" to see a mutation so soon after the discovery of the original strain, C.1, back in January, but sampling and genome sequencing found that the C.1.2 variant "had mutated substantially."
C.1.2 has an extremely high rate of mutation, according to the study. The new variant **********exhibited between 44-59 mutations away from the original COVID-19 strain, which is more than any other variant of concern or variant of interest.*****************
{snip}
If ANY of these variants exhibit any sort of substantial vaccine resistance, what we will have is a total population of NEW victims in which this could spread.
In other words starting from scratch........
This particular variant has gone mutation crazy, it seems. So far removed from Alpha, Beta and Delta variants - which are the variants we developed our vaccines FOR.
A year from now - where will we be if this variant continues unchecked?
Are you retarded??? It will always be "unchecked". oc43 took years to move through and is still around as the " common cold". From the U.S. perspective, the main wave moved through, but you will have echo waves for years.