The Food and Drug Administration on Monday granted full approval to Pfizer-BioNTech’s coronavirus vaccine for people 16 and older, making it the first to move beyond emergency use status in the United States.
The decision will set off a cascade of vaccine requirements by hospitals, colleges, corporations and other organizations. United Airlines recently announced that its employees will be required to show proof of vaccination within five weeks of regulatory approval.
Oregon has adopted a similar requirement for all state workers, as have a host of universities in states from Louisiana to Minnesota. The Pentagon has said it would mandate the shots for the country’s 1.3 million active-duty troops once the Pfizer approval came through.
In one sentence we learn that full approval will set off a "cascade" of vaccine requirements, but in the very next sentence we learn that loads of organizations have already put them in place.
So which is it? Is full approval needed for vaccine requirements to be approved? Or can everyone do it regardless of the vaccine's status? Seems like the latter to me, but what do I know?
POSTSCRIPT: And how is Fox News taking this? Until today, the party line was that the vaccine was still "experimental" because it had only emergency approval. Today, they're reporting that "critics" are wondering if the FDA rushed the full approval for political reasons. Just asking questions here!
For those jurisdictions/organizations/whatnot where full approval was not required then sure, we've already had loads. And presumably there is another, large, set for whom full approval was a requirement, or at least a pretext.
https://apnews.com/article/health-education-coronavirus-pandemic-676f2a2c63b4136360f8ea3682f48287
https://gothamist.com/news/nyc-public-schools-issue-full-covid-vaccine-mandate-all-staff
Even if that does not call for a wink and a nod, I imagine it won't have hurt when it comes to negotiating with the unions.
Finally: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/23/nyregion/nyc-schools-employee-vaccine-mandate.html
Well, clearly TFG's "miracle" of a vaccine at "warp speed" means it's got to be unsafe, in spite of what the Democrat FDA sez. After all, didn't the FDA and that traitor Fauci pooh-pooh all the well established cures, like direct injections of Chlorox, horse de-wormer, UV lightbulbs jammed down the ol' windpipe, and remdesivir? If the FDA likes it, it's gotta be BAD!
oh, jammed down the windpipe....well, I got that one wrong.
Well, how else are you going to get UV light into the lungs?
Through the asshole. These are Fox folks, so that's a larger and easier path.
Fox News never met a goalpost that they couldn't move.
As for me, I'm off to score some of that sweet, sweet ivermectin.
Me too. No, really. All out of Heartgard for my puppy.
They get horse de-wormer from the blood of champion race horses.
If we just had our own champion race horse we distribute vials of it's blood to people we know and care about and we wouldn't have to go through The Man, and it would be in it's raw, pure state, unadulterated by god knows what.
So there was this guy who tried this and gave the blood to his wife. Unfortunately he was tricked and now his wife is an old nag.
Ba-dum dum-tish
dear god!
I know it's true because it's on the internet!
Exactly, It's as predictable as the tides that they'd immediately move on to another faux concern to justify their obvious desire to prolong the pandemic (for others -- we know Fox personnel are fully vaxxed and have been for a while).
The news out of Florida that teens now have the highest test positivity rate in the State (followed closely by those under 13) is, I guess, further evidence of Gov. DeathSentence "winning" the pandemic by a veritable landslide (though the guy in Texas is giving it a solid go as well).
Is FL even reporting test results anymore? I look at the Johns Hopkins site and they haven't reported a single test result for weeks. Also on some days they just seem to skip reporting anything at all, then when they pick up again the count is obviously a single days data -- in the range of 20,000 to 25,000.
Look on worldmeters . Seeing fla most days now - more than they were a while ago.
Ivermectin is approved for human as well as veterinary use, so enjoy.
TIL that shits from ivermectin treated animals degrade more slowly than "clean" shits.
A crap preserver is exactly what anti-vaxxers are looking for!
Naomi Wolf liked this.
I plan to, thanks.
Like with any other anthelminthic, ivermectin is basically a nerve poison that happens to poison vertebrate nerves slightly less than it does invertebrate nerves.
Drink up.
Kevin, you need to read more carefully. "The very next sentence" identifies organizations that have announced that their employees will be required to get vaccinated "within five weeks of regulatory approval".
That's the cascade. Approval triggers the vaccine requirement.
Might as well include it here and save some folks their quota of free NYT articles:
I'm not clear on the purpose of redundantly repeating the contents of Drum's blog in the comments.
Archive org early.
Archive org often.
And, because the answer to Kevin's own question was staring him in the face.
Indeed. Of course, non-redundant repetition is perfectly acceptable.
Exactly. These mandates were put in place conditionally: As soon as the vaccines receive full approval, you are required to get the shot. The condition is now met, therefore the mandates come into force.
yea, I didn't see any mystery or confusion here. I think Kevin just read it too fast.
Really? You can Identify all? Let's see, oh, the first ten or so. Specifically. Of course, you knew that's exactly what he meant and you're just playing 'gotcha'. That's just plain pathetic.
Do we think the right ever gets tired of being utterly predictable?
Well, the data-driven way to evaluate the effect of full approval would be to tally the number of persons subject to mandates before and after.
I doubt you see a cascade. Not a big deal except maybe outside medical facilities.
It's going to be interesting to see how the military takes this. Their vaccination rates are not all that high, and it's to be expected that the usual 30% will profess personal beliefs which exempt them, the law be damned, not to mention a tradition that goes back to 1777.
Of course, if soldiers and marines take the position that they don't like being told what to do, it will be pointed out to them that they're in the wrong business.
Waterboard antivaxxx service members with the pulmonary discharge of COVID positive people.
We already collect it with chest tubes.
A full approval has never been required for a vaccine mandate (in prior years no one would care, since vaccine mandates in the US have been around since the days of George Washington), which is why many companies, institutions, and organizations have been implementing them over the past few months, and some have already had their decisions upheld in court when they were challenged. What this will do is simply increase the number of places that will start requiring them since "it is not fully approved" will no longer be an argument someone could use against them in a potential court challenge.
> but in the very next sentence we learn that loads of organizations have already put them in place
Let me help you with your reading comprehension. Organizations had put in place "when the FDA fully approves the vaccine, then we will require vaccinations". Now that the FDA has fully approved, the vaccination requirement is cascading.
Name ten _specific_ organizations from the article. The trolls are extremely weak today. But I guess they have to at least sign in to collect their paycheck.
Some of the initial vaccination "mandates" were really get vaccinated or get tested a lot. People don't like to get tested a lot, so would then get vaccinated (even if "under protest"). With full approval, there is a stronger legal argument on insisting that everyone get vaccinated. Also note, most places allow other vaccines too.
What everyone is missing is that blood from vaccinated folks can give the virus to the recipient!!! So say the RWNJ's!!!
Cool! Maybe I'll go donate blood then. Just recently had a second Shingles shot, so extra added benefit...
I didn't read the whole thing.
Did they approve the magnetization also?
Will my compass still work?
Meanwhile, wasn't not all that long ago that WHO was asking boosters wait until (after?) September? https://thehill.com/policy/international/568988-who-chief-calling-for-two-month-halt-on-vaccine-boosters Now it would seem they are calling for after October.
Boosters are overblown. I would shelve them until next year.
So, now we learn Shooter lost his leg not to alcohol-induced diabetes but tetanus contracted after falling off his barstool & planting his leg in a loose nail.
😂
Kevin's wrong about the Fox News point. It is unfortunately paywalled, but Jesse Singal has a good piece this morning that details how a bunch of prominent liberals on Twitter deliberately elided the Fox News broadcast, which in fact was focused on DEBUNKING the claim that the FDA acted too fast. At least one of the people who put out this meme later clarified what Fox had done, but of course, by then the cat was out of the bag and everyone was retweeting the misleading information.
You sort of have to just ignore Kevin's comments on fox news. He seems to have become so obsessed with them as the source of all evil that he will believe anything negative or just perceive anything re fox in the most negative possible way.
Do you have links to the retraction?
I find salamander's comment of 11:43 am tellingly ironic, unless the sarcasm is even more subtle than I thought.
His first sentence sure sounds pretty much like what a whole bunch of anti trump liberals were saying last year, questioning whether trump was cutting corners to get his miracle vaccine emergency approoval. Somehow all that democratic sceptical magically disappeared when biden took office and any critical thinking on the vaccine became verboten.
And reading that, i thought salamander was making fun of the liberals for now getting upset at any conservative for not trusting the current administration in getting full approval.
But it seems salamander was just still ragging on conservatives and not even seeing the irony.
There’s a significant difference between being worried that the vaccine approval process might be corrupted for political purposes by a dangerous narcissistic psychopath who’s demonstrably willing to cause mass death and suffering and worrying that vitality needed vaccines are being needlessly delayed by bureaucratic inertia.
But here is the problem. That is your perspective as a rapid anti Trumper.
From the perspective of a rabid pro Trumper, questioning it last year was so unfair because why would you question our honest fda with a president that is just trying to do the best for the country and get a needed vaccine which was also vouched for by fauci.
And today of course we should question any vaccine decision made by an fda controlled by a corrupt senile politician like biden who has been bought off by China and will do anything to serve his agenda.
See it all depends on your prospective and view and trust of the administration. Skepticism here by hard line trumpists is obviously reasonable from their perspective- it is inherent in their extreme views and not some additional issue. Just like skepticism last year might be inherently a part of your extreme opposite views.
The criticism of this vaccine approval skepticism is basically saying
" look at what those crazy people who think biden is completely corrupt are doing now - they are not even trusting biden on the vaccine ". Well of course they are not trusting someone who they think is corrupt- neither are you trusting trump. The additional point re this issue is meaningless.
And actually anti trump skepticism last year was more unreasonable than anti biden skepticism this year. Why? Because even if you do feel that the president you hate is corrupt enough to do this, they have to be able to do it. And, in order to do it, they need enough people at the fda who are also corrupt enough to agree and/or not spill the beans about it. Plus they have to WANT to do so.
I do not think, no matter how corrupt either trump or biden is, there is enough corruption at the fda to make it viable. But, if there were, it could be done by biden but not trump anyway.
The scientific beurocracy at the fda is mostly liberal democrats, like most of the federal beurocracy and were not supporters of trump. Much of the federal beurocracy was in " resist" mode last year. No way , no matter how evil trump could have been, could he get the fda to do such a thing to help him. For biden, it is at least conceivable
This is a false equivalence. There is absolutely no indication of tampering or undue political influence in the approval of the vaccine. The current approval is simply the normal functioning of an agency established to promote public health and the common good. The points you are urging are irrational and unsupported.
By contrast, Donald Trump has spent years at the head of a criminal enterprise. He is a psychopath and a narcissist who made it clear that he expected all government agencies to serve him personally and, to that end, we know that he installed the American equivalent of political commissars in every organ of the federal government.
And, specifically, his political commissars interfered in every aspect of the fight against Covid-19 in order to promote Trump’s interests over the public’s interests.
For example:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-officials-gloated-about-editing-cdc-covid-19-reports-yippee-2021-4
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/03/trumps-vaccine-cant-be-trusted/
https://time.com/5887777/rushed-vaccine-democrats-republicans/
It’s entirely reasonable to fear the politicization of vaccine development under Trump in ways that would be unreasonable in the administration of any other president.
Translation: No. No he doesn't. Fuck off, troll.
Anti vaxers killing cops in Florida.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/23/florida-cop-jennifer-sepot-becomes-fifth-cop-to-die-of-covid-19-this-week/
Scores of cops recently lined a South Florida roadway to mourn a colleague who caught a fatal case of COVID-19 on the job — one of five officers in the Sunshine State who died of the disease in just one week amid a record surge in local cases.
Too bad, so sad.
I could care less. The weak shall perish.
Matthew 5:7
“Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.”
King James Version (KJV)
Ha ha justin, good one.
Clearly the cop who died is extremely unlikely to be unvaccinated. And all your previous posts are how you hate them so much and wish they all die.
So here you troll yourself and make the unvaccinated who died to be a victim and you are "sad " about it?
Funny. Not many have the sense of humor to make fun of yourself like that.
And this is what I was referring to in responding to scent where I thought later I crossed a line I should not have.
While I do think justin deserved it and I was not overly insulting and more of a tease , it really had no point but to provoke a reaction and that is sort of trolling and can side track the discussion. So probably should have declined to post this but honestly just could not resist. As soon as I hit post, I was thinking maybe bad idea.
And my thought was maybe justin would have a sense of humor and laugh about it and maybe calm down with the hate posts a little. Justin does have some actual thoughtful points and uses to have more it seems. And underneath all the wishing people would die, does not seem to me that he really actually wants that, I hope.
The decision not to charge in the Eric Garner strangulation was a monkey's paw scenario.
Many of you might want to go back and read the history of what I think solar is referring to. During the Revolutionary War, Washington required the army to get "vaccinated " for smallpox.
At the time , however, vaccination meant actually giving someone smallpox by introducing live virus, just a hopefully weakened strain from someone recovering which hopefully will not kill you as much as a normal case would. But you had a significant chance of dying from that inoculation. Dangerous enough that the continental congress had earlier banned it in the army.
But, at that time 90% of deaths in the army were caused by disease not battle and smallpox was the worst. The British were more protected as long term soldiers who already had had it or been inoculated.
So washington decided to require vaccination of all of the army (75%) who had never had smallpox. In winter season with no fighting. Risky as, if the British found out, we were done. With so many sick from inoculation at one time, the British could have attacked.
And had to mandate it. With a risk of dying from vaccine so high, it was in nobody's personal interest to get vaccinated ( if you could let others do and be the free rider on herd immunity ). It was for the good of the army as a whole . And part of the idea is ,if you are going to die of smallpox, do so now and not during summer campaigning season.
And it worked. The health of our army later played a big part in winning the war.
Washington actually sucked as a tactical general mostly. But this one decision might have saved the revolution.
And it just illustrates how in older times we were able to face tough decisions. But now we cannot deal.
Covid is not smallpox and not even close. In the 18th century, covid would barely have been noticed. If it had happened then, would not even be mentioned in history.
I do not think covid is a disease that justified most hard vaccine mandates, for a vaccine that is still nee enough to be unproven for long term safety. Mandating for some professions where it is really needed like nursing home staff - yes by me. Allowing private businesses to require it on their own, fine. But the us govt forcing it to be taken by all the servicemen, I cannot support (especially as low enough a threat to them that not a real problem for military readiness). Violating someone's rights re their own body should require an extraordinary reason and I do not think covid meets that threshold.
But a future virus might. What if China makes a new bioweapon and releases it here. It kills 20% of those it infects and has an R0 of 2. With perfect permanent immunity if you survive. Need 50% immune for herd immunity which likely means over 50% get sick and maybe 15% of population dies .
But you quickly develop a vaccine with perfect immunity but it is estimated to kill 2% of those who take it. You get it before viral spread takes off. If you can get over 50% vaccinated, you end the threat. Maybe 60% is the sweet spot and 1.5% die mostly from vaccine.
Then you absolutely have to force 60% to get vaccinated for community good, if you have to forcibly do so even.
See 1889-90(with outbreaks to 1894). Was called the Russian flu. But now it appears was a pre-covid 19 coronavirus outbreak. It happens. Frankly, I think people are moving on. If it hadn't been the southern state debacle, it would be fading from the news with occasional popups
Technically when a lot of announcements set the starting date for a mandate as the day of approval it is fair to say that the approval "triggers" the mandate though it would b wrong to say the approval "caused" it.
I'm just surprised that no one here mentioned the new name for the Pfizer/BNT vaccine.
It's now Comirnaty®
@Rational thought
"Then you absolutely have to force 60% to get vaccinated for community good, if you have to forcibly do so even."
Really? Try telling THAT to Israel:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ultra-vaxxed-israel-debacle-dire-073840050.html
{snip}
In June, there were several days with zero new COVID infections in Israel. The country launched its national vaccination campaign in December last year and has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, with 80 percent of citizens above the age of 12 fully inoculated. COVID, most Israelis thought, had been defeated. All restrictions were lifted and Israelis went back to crowded partying and praying in mask-free venues.
Post-Vaccine Israel Reopens With a Party
Fast forward two months later: Israel reported 9,831 new diagnosed cases on Tuesday, a hairbreadth away from the worst daily figure ever recorded in the country—10,000—at the peak of the third wave. More than 350 people have died of the disease in the first three weeks of August. In a Sunday press conference, the directors of seven public hospitals announced that they could no longer admit any coronavirus patients. With 670 COVID-19 patients requiring critical care, their wards are overflowing and staff are at breaking point.
{snip}
;and this
{snip}
Israel vaccinated its population almost exclusively with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, which received full FDA approval on Monday and remains the gold standard for the prevention of severe illness due to the coronavirus.
But in early July, with citizens over the age of 60 almost completely vaccinated, Israeli scientists began observing a worrisome rise in infections—if not in severe illness and death—among the double-vaccinated.
Fully vaccinated people with weakened immune systems appeared particularly vulnerable to the aggressive Delta variant.
{snip}
This is a pandemic NOT a political policy. Regardless of whether or not you are vaccinated the DELTA variant is very worrysome to those with compromised immunity.
Israel has a much more homogeneous society and they are also a much smaller country. The DELTA variant is proving that once again, it matters not a whit if you are R or D or I
But also take note. They used Pfizer's vaccine and now are saying 6 months for booster shots. Augmenting my previous argument that we started out with the implication we could beat COVID with a 2 shot regime and be safe for a year. Which then got downgraded to 8 months and now Israel saying that 6 months MAY be the best time frame
This virus is becoming very very bad again
8 or 9 days after the Sturgis rally in South Dakota - openly touted by their governor the tow biggest naitonwide outbreaks of COVID are IN?
South Dakota including the county that Sturgis is located in. The bikers came and went and those servers that waited on them are now sick.
This was a dumb move by a governor who politicized COVID to make a point and she failed her constituents in doing so