Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison today for his role in the collapse of crypto broker FTX. Here's what John Ray, the guy hired to clean up the mess after FTX declared bankruptcy, had to say about him a few days ago:
Vast sums of money were stolen by Mr. Bankman-Fried, and he was rightly convicted by a jury of his peers. That things that he stole, things he converted into other things, whether they were investments in Bahamas real estate, cryptocurrencies or speculative ventures, were successfully recovered through the enormous efforts of a dedicated group of professionals (a group unfairly maligned by Mr. Bankman-Fried and his supporters) does not mean that things were not stolen. What it means is that we got some of them back. And there are plenty of things we did not get back, like the bribes to Chinese officials or the hundreds of millions of dollars he spent to buy access to or time with celebrities or politicians or investments for which he grossly overpaid having done zero diligence. The harm was vast. The remorse is nonexistent.
I agree wholeheartedly. And yet, I think the 25-year sentence was too harsh. Why? Because I think pretty much every prison sentence handed out in the US is too harsh. If we cut every sentence served by every prisoner in half, we'd probably still be a little too harsh. But it would be a start.
That said, if there's an exception to be made, it would be for someone like Bankman-Fried. Generally speaking, long sentences ruin lives for little reason, since they don't do much to deter crime and most people don't commit violent crimes after their 30s anyway.
But a white collar criminal like Bankman-Fried? There's no aging out of crime for a guy like him. When he gets out there's a good chance that he'll get involved in some scam or another very quickly. It's what he's good at, after all.
Let's be honest, he should get like 5 years, which is more than enough punishment and delay of your life. I'm not aware that he actually physically hurt anyone, or was otherwise involved in their physical demise. He played around with money and symbolics in an unethical and illegal fashion, shouldn't be the end of his life which 25 years in prison would almost certainly be, though parole considerations could kick in before that. For the average Joe or Jane, even a year in jail or prison would be a big game-changer, and 5 years really dropping the hammer, but 25 years is stupid unless you are raping, killing, and or threatening those.
Yeah, well it's different when rich people get ripped off. Just ask Bernie Madoff - he got 150 years. Rip off a million poor people and you get a medal.
I agree that 25 is too long a sentence, but what we need is systemic reform of US prison sentencing not a special exception for this asshole. however the idea that physical crimes are inherently worse or more damaging that financial ones and always deserve longer sentences is also wrong. the damage and negative impact of stealing someone's money can be far worse that a physical assault, destroying lives. it's a mistake to let rich people committing "white collar" crime pretend otherwise and get off with trivial punishment.
My dude he should be shot. His philosophy is fucking dangerous and if he has money he'll proceed to further it again.
The science, as I have read it, shows that the probability of being catch is the most significant deterrent. So, is SBF sentence too long? Perhaps, but honestly, I don't find him to be a very sympathetic person.
Does 25 years in prison destroy SBF life? Yes, and maybe 15 years would have a similar impact. Frankly, SBF does not strike me as the type of person who will flourish in prison....
"Frankly, SBF does not strike me as the type of person who will flourish in prison...." That thought came up during Madoff, and an actual former inmate averred that in fact psychopathic manipulators do very well in prison. The population there isn't the brightest bunch--they got caught, after all--and there's a lot of respect for really successful crooks.
Add to that all the money he's got squirreled away elsewhere, and he can buy a pretty nice life inside--"Goodfellas" time, not "Office Space" pound-me-in-the ass time. He can buy off the guards and buy off the gangs, if they even have any in Club Fed.
In ancient Rome, usurers were punished by damnatio ad bestias: fed to beasts in the arena. Let’s bring that back.
I'm with you there, KD. We're too punitive and prison sentences are often too long.
I'm a classical liberal after all.
Wish more ppl would speak up against #metoo style witch-hunts which nabbed ppl like Weinstein, and Epstein, and Trump, and Danny Masterson---all scums mind you, but the punishment was too harsh, tooo toooooo harsh.
prosecuting rapists and sexual abusers is a witch hunt? citing "#metoo" convicted felons and serial abuser as emblematic of overly harsh sentencing is not a compelling argument.
Yeah, that was a pretty sharp u-turn in my nodding-along-in-agreement journey..
He'll be paroled after 10-15 years, so the topline 25 year sentence is meaningless.
I fully agree that prison sentences in the US are far too long. No disagreement there.
And yet non-activists only ever say this when white guys go to prison for financial crimes.
Wonder why.
There is no federal parole but he could get some time off for good conduct. My guess is that he will serve at least 20 years of hard time. Is that enough for the billions he stole and the countless lives he ruined? I don’t think so. The harm he did to others is incalculable but the life savings of so many workers were wiped out not to mention the harm he did to the economic system. I think the original recommendation of a life sentence was correct. In reality, he should be put to work to recoup all the money that was lost but life is too short, that’s how grave his action were.
As a former CFO who has often been astounded at just how close to the wind some finance professionals are willing to steer, I often said we should handle cases like this differently.
If we executed a couple of these miscreants every generation (no need for more than that, I think) it would likely discourage a large number of other white-collar criminals from taking the plunge.
You don't get to be a high-flying financier without amassing a fair bit of wealth along the way, so you have a lot to lose if you are shuffled off this mortal coil :).
There is zero evidence that the death penalty has ever deterred any type of crime ever (remember those pickpockets around the gallows in England back when petty theft was a capital offense?).
The Donald Trump school of thought is that the death penalty solves everything. Total, total BS.
Do YOU remember them? How old are you?
Anyhow those didn't work because thieves had to choose between death and death. Not the case here. Nobody challenges Putin because they'll die if they do after all. Deatg penalty works when the people killed aren't dumb black dudes but people who have things to lose
"when the people killed aren't dumb black dudes but people who have things to lose"
What the actual fuck.
Don't worry, it's the Newb's schtick. Probably best to not engage.
Or just fine them the amount of money they are reckoned to have stolen--no bankruptcy, no mitigation--life-long, world eternal debt.
The prospect of that will result in deterrence, or suicide.
So you are confident he will repeat, but think 25 years is too harsh?!?
well, you shouldn't put people in prison indefinitely because you think they might repeat offend. you get a sentence based on what you did, not what a judge thinks you might do in the future. and despite kevin's suspicion, 25 years (or 20 or whatever he ends up serving) is a helluva long time in prison for someone to change.
One tidbit. He was an early funder of an AI startup: https://sfist.com/2024/03/28/disgraced-ftx-founder-sam-bankman-fried-sentenced-to-25-years/
He stole over $8 billion. For a 25-year sentence that works out to (very) roughly $1 million per day.
Let me know when someone who steals $1 million should only get a single day in prison, and basically everyone who steals less than that should get off completely.
Otherwise, his sentence was far too light.
Prison reform is one thing, but eff this guy.
Prison terms CAN'T be proportional to the amount stolen. Quite a few years ago, in the early days of computer fraud, I read a story about a couple of computer fraudsters in Morocco who had managed to steal quite a lot of money, and Moroccan law at the time required a sentence for theft proportional to the amount stolen, so the computer fraudsters were sentenced to 3,000 years jail. Sentences like that lack any real meaning.
What? They quite clearly mean "life".
Moroccan law has a graduated response up to a point, after which you get life. This seems straightforwardly understandable.
Media types like to sensationalize sentencing numbers, and some people believe sentences are actually proportional to harm, so they mistake the number for some sort of "bad guy score".
I have no idea how long he will serve, but Jeff Skilling (Enron) got 24 years and served only 12, reduced for good behavior.
Perhaps he should have shown some remorse of any kind, or not have his lawyers claim that depositors will be paid in full. My thought is that the sentence should be dependent on how many people's lives were materially diminished by the impact of a financial fraud. I don't really care about the impact to equity investors or lenders who should have know better or done more extensive due diligence.
Skilling was originally sentenced to 24 years and four months, but he appealed to the US Supreme Court which vacated part of his convictions in 2010. He was resentenced to 14 years as a result. So he served 12 years, or 85% of his 14-year sentence. That’s fairly usual in the federal system—there’s no parole, but up to 15% time off for good behavior. There are also reductions for participating in alcohol abuse disorder treatment and so forth.
And still grifting . . .
"Business ventures after Enron
In June 2020, Skilling was reported by Reuters to be fundraising for launch of an online oil and gas trading platform named Veld LLC.[54] In August 2021, Veld LLC filed as a business in the State of Texas. According to the public records available through the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts, Rebecca Carter, Skilling's wife, is listed as manager of the company. On August 30, 2022 the company became listed as withdrawn.[55]"
To gently disagree...until the C-suite can reasonably expect to serve hard time for malfeasance, misfeasance and nonfeasance, the same sort of condign punishment that lesser folks regularly take in the neck for doing things that hurt far fewer far less, we will continue to see the moral devolution of Big Everything along with the crapfication of our lives and environment
Bribes to Chinese but paid access to American politicians, who will not be charged with any crimes.
Agree that prison sentences in general are too high in the US, but white collar crime is historically ignored or the kiddie treatment with the sorry excuse of "no one was physically hurt". Fuck that.
There should be a scale of sentences for violent crimes and one for non-violent ones, and just like murder one should be at the top of the scale for violent ones, these type of multimillion dollar crimes should be at the top of the scale for non-violent ones, and 25 years seems just about right to me.
I am positive this sentence is correct. Had a "little person" don't even a tenth, nay a hundredth, nay a thousandth of what this guy did even a five year sentence would ruin that "little person's" life. For good. He has a lot of resources to fall back on (rich family, fame or infamy, an excellent education) meanwhile "little people" rarely have anything buffering their plight which will extend far into their futures after the sentence is served.
He deserves it, every single second.
Eric Garner got the death penalty for selling bootleg cigarettes.
If Orange Jesus is elected, he could pardon SBF, and make him his senior economic advisor. He would fit in well with the pack of criminals, pathological liars, cheats, and con men (and women) who would fill the ranks of Il Duce's next administration.
I think punishments should be even higher for any white collar crime. The more the injured parties are poor means even higher. So say Enron should get more than this clown, but this clown should be taken out back and shot in the head.
No mercy with these jackasses.
Agreed. Violent crimes typically affect only a small number of people, but the sentences are disproportionately large because of some kind of "violence multiplier." White-collar crimes, including ones where execs make decisions with full knowledge of the potential serious consequences (e.g., deferring maintenance of railroad equipment used to transport hazardous materials, resulting in a derailment) deserve much, much longer sentences than they usually get, because so many people are harmed.
I agree with the concept that American sentences are too harsh (thank you LaGuardia), but I do think that the scale and scope of victims should matter.
If I break into your house and steal, I'm probably looking at 10 years at minimum for harming one family and not physically harming or threatening anyone. SBF stole BILLIONS from THOUSANDS of people. That has to mean something.
Exactly!
When conman Billy Sol Estes was released on parole, it was under the condition that he avoid any of his wheeling and dealing. As his wife put it, "he should keep his big mouth shut".
I'd be interested in your take on Michael Lewis' take: Sam's just a nice gut that got swept up in a volatile world and got played by a Chinese billionaire...
_Going Infinite_