Louisiana has decided that all schools in the state should display the Ten Commandments:
The law gives schools until Jan. 1 to display the Ten Commandments — religious and ethical directives outlined in the Bible — on “a poster or framed document that is at least eleven inches by fourteen inches” in every classroom. The commandments have to be the display’s “central focus” and be “printed in a large, easily readable font.”
And not just any Ten Commandments, either. The Protestant Ten Commandments:
I wonder what translation they settled on? It has lots of "thou shalts," but it also bowdlerizes "ox and ass" to "cattle." I don't recognize it, but you can't have the word ass around little children, I guess.
We'll see how this plays out. A local judge will probably approve it, and the Fifth Circuit probably will too even though it's plainly illegal under current precedent. Then it's on to the Supreme Court, which banned the Ten Commandments in schools many decades ago. But it was a 5-4 decision. I suppose it could easily go the other way now that we have more committed conservatives on the court.
Looks like they turned it way up to 11.
No more graven images...so we have to get rid of Trump's NFT's?
Yeah I'm sure teachers will love having to explain that one.
Not to mention that gold (painted?) miniature of trump that was presented at one meeting- possibly AIPAC?
What about the ten foot tall one?
Leaving aside the legal issues for a moment, does this mean that teachers will be discussing adultery and coveting their neighbor's wife with the first graders?
Those that do will explain it in simple terms: the man is the leader of the household, and women must not stray, and men must not, um ... well, boys will be boys, and women just need to understand that. Amen.
Not to mention coveting the manservant and maidservant.
("Servant" here being a stand-in for "slave.")
It's Louisiana, bro. It's all good with the slaves.
As long as you don't covet the other guy's sex slave.
As the final commandment should say in full, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, or thy neighbor's ass, or thy neighbor's wife's ass. (There, that even covers homosexuality.)
Nor thy neighbor's wife's servant's ass.
Well at least we don't have to deal with tan suits in the Oval Office!
Also, too:
Why Biden Should Be Worried
A Times Panel Discussion
because you KNOW they'll have a carefully bothsidesed think-piece on it.
What crap. As an atheist I am offended. I suppose I could just ignore it like I did when forced to (pretend to) do prayers in a public elementary school in the 60's. Such an adorable hypocritical touch - many of the biggest proponents of this doctrine I grew up were the worst offenders. George Carlin......we need you back on earth!!!!
As kids in my elementary school in Queens NYC in the early 60s, we were subjected to readings of the 23rd Psalm during assemblies and we had to sing the third verse of America ("Our Father's God to Thee" ... "Praise God our King") every morning. I should have found it objectionable at the time, but I must have had other concerns.
How is this not offensive to anybody that’s not of a Judeo-Christian denomination? It says right there that their god is inferior to one in the Ten Commandments.
It's also offensive to anybody who is in a Jewish or Christian denomination.
The freedom of people to practice a religion goes hand in hand with the prohibition on the government to impose a religion.
Not just inferior, but a fake. Anyone who doesn't worship the One True God is committing a sin.
At least it recognizes there are other glods.
It should be offensive for those who are Christian. Christ condensed the commandments down to two:
1. Love God.
2. Love thy neighbor as thy self.
Effectively transforming Christianity from a decimal-based system to a binary-based system.
I'm also surprised that they insist on the Protestant version which is quite different from the Catholic version. I've always though of Louisiana as a fairly Catholic place. New Orleans in particular, although that may have changed since Katrina. I wonder whether some Catholics are pushing back on this, but maybe they just figure they have their own schools anyway.
I think the area around New Orleans and where there are large Cajun populations it's Catholic but all other parts of the state are wingnut baptist types.
There is no such thing as a Protestant version. Kevin is not up on church history. The version used in many American Protestant churches is that from Calvin's Institutes of 1536, which also ended up in the Book of Common Prayer. Most American Protestants derive, directly or indirectly, from this strain of Protestantism. Lutherans, however, use the version in Luther's Large Catechism of 1529. It is close, but not quite identical, to the version Catholics use.
As for this version, the intended numbering is unclear. I suspect it is intentionally vague, though under the circumstances it might merely be incompetent legal draftsmanship.
It's highly offensive! My mom raised a Catholic and still around tells the story of when she was in public school in New Jersey in 1930s and they were forcing the kids to say the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer, had the Protestant Ten Commandments up and other odious things to remind Catholic and Jewish students that they were others. Her parents did not like this one bit - her mom was Catholic, her dad Swedish Lutheran. They put in her the local Catholic parish school the very next year.
Geez 90 years later and we're still having to fight the battles.
Notice that God left out the commandment that "Thou shalt not buy or sell a fellow human being." Must have been on his coffee break.
Naw, "He" was good with that.
Gotta love that the first four are almost universally ignored, the fifth is just vague handwaving and the true believers don't really seem to care about the rest.
I always think it’s funny when people try to justify this be saying the Ten Commandments are the basis for our laws. Only 2 are actually illegal (killing and stealing) - and occasionally bearing false witness. The first two or three are explicitly forbidden to be coded in law by the first amendment.
For that matter, "coveting" is the very basis of our free market economy.
From what I understand, "covet" is an awkward, imprecise translation of the original Hebrew. The word that's actually in there doesn't have a clear equivalent in English.
Fred Clark, at Slacktivist, relates that this common version comes from Cecil B. DeMille and the Fraternal Order of Eagles
We now have a Christian Nationalist Court. Of course they will require the posting of their Constitution. They'll probably take the opportunity to require its posting in every school in the country. Maybe in every home. Who knows?
Mrs. Alito says every kid should fly a flag displaying the Ten Commandments, and if they're gay or trans, they'll have it tattooed on their arm.
Re: the Constitution. In some grade, I can't recall which, we were all required to memorize the Preamble. I still remember it.
They will compromise and allow the Catholic version instead.
Christ Almighty!
In 16 years of Catholic school, I don't recall the Ten Commandments being displayed on classroom walls (with the possible exception of 1st to 3rd grade). Why in God's name should anyone attending public school be forced to look at them? If I were a teacher, I'd be displaying the Bill of Rights, with the first ten words highlighted in bright colors:
Of course, the Christian nationalists on the Supreme Court won't care about the First Amendment when they issue their decision. We'll all be living back in Salem in 1692 by the time they're done with us.
I hope the Catholic faithful understand that the evangelical right will have no use for them in the end. Notice when Trump and some of the arch-Xians in Congress make reference to "Christians and Catholics" when they talk about their religious base. Catholics are Papists and not true Christians. Like the Civil War, the religious wars that ravaged Europe for centuries are not settled business.
That's part of the First or Second Commandment, depending on which book of the Bible you're quoting from, and I'd like to be there the day the kid in the back row raises his hand to ask a question. "Well, what about Trump?"
If I could give it to you, you would have all my Internet points.
And mine, too.
Indeed, foolish American Catholics still think the leopard won't be eating their face.
I'll just take this opportunity to bitch once again by the lack of a thumbs up sort of function here. At least my comment doesn't end up a half a mile below the one I'm answering.
Why are the Ten Commandments always styled to look like tomb stones?
Because the letters are engraved?
Honestly, it's tomb stones,
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ten+commandments&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images
En - graved was the failed joke.
Well, now that you put it that way—that's a good one!
That's the way God gave them to Charlton Heston.
Bing-bing-bing! That's correct!
Actually, as we all know, there were 15 commandments, but Moses dropped one of the tablets...
The centered rather than left justified format is really annoying. I've never actually seen it before for ye olde Commandments.
You're just really lucky they aren't RIGHT-"justified". Jes' sayin'
They would be, in the original Hebrew.
The Supreme Court of Gilead will absolutely side with the Christian Nationalists. They will twist the fact pattern in the case (they will outright lie) in order to find some bullshit reason why the Establishments Clause does not apply.
Since about 40% of the US believes in Creationism (Genesis, 6000 year old earth, Noah and the flood), we are truly fucked as a country.
And now, of course, we turn inevitably to the Supreme Court to play "Who's on board with throwing the First Amendment in the trash pile?"
I think we can predict six of the nine: Sotomayor, Kagan, Jackson, and Roberts vote to overturn the Louisiana law, and Thomas and Alito vote to uphold it. (I put Roberts with the liberals on this one -- this is the kind of bomb-throwing assault on precedent that Roberts reliably smacks down.)
That leaves Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett in the middle. If any one of those three votes to overturn, the law is toast. I think I'd bet on Gorsuch to uphold and Kavanaugh to overturn. Barrett is a question mark.
The law probably won't survive SCOTUS, but the fact that we even have to think about this is depressing.
I think the Supreme Court will need to decide what is meant by “neighbor”. Is it ok to do those things if the person lives in another neighborhood? Or a different zip code? And what exactly does it mean when it says to keep the sabbath “Holy”. And what does it mean to not have other Gods “before me”. Are there other Gods? What are they and what do they do? Should you worship them, but only after 10 Commandments God?
Also, I think most kids will find the document confusing. Hasn’t Trump done almost everything it says not to do?
Then there is the homoerotic dimension of coveting your neighbor's ... um, er "cattle" ... 🙄
And there is the question of which day is the Sabbath. It's already different for Christians and Jews. (Is it an entire week for Muslims?)
How do catholics feel about this?
I'm not familiar with the various flavors of christianity, but I vaguely remember there are tensions. Aren't there a bunch of catholic taliban on the SC?
I can see a couple of ways for teachers who aren't comfortable with this to handle it:
1) Comply with the "easily readable font" requirement by using Comic Sans. Nobody takes anything seriously when it is written in Comic Sans.
2) Put other postings next to it that put it in a larger context that avoids an implication of Christian supremacy, like the Five Pillars of Islam and the Eightfold Path of Buddhism.
The Three Laws of Robotics.
If painedumonde can give away all his internet points, so can I...and they go to CLD.....the world would be a very good place if we followed the three Laws of Robotics...
"A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
Best Wishes, Traveller
Unless of course, a sentient and powerful entity interprets the Three Laws the way V.I.K.I. did.
Don't forget the Zeroeth.
I'd be content if a teacher just posted underneath it, in somewhat larger type face, a second sign that said: "Donald Trump has broken nine of these, and has bragged publicly that he could get away with breaking the remaining one."
I'm not sure how it is now, but the surest way back in my day to get kids to mock something was to make it something that the school endorses. If the kids are as cynical today as we were then, I suspect that this will backfire in many cases.
That is, if they somehow find a way around that pesky Constitution and get it posted...
Does the law say you can't hang it facing the wall?
+ 1000
I'm all for it. Call their bluff. Ask them why they've violated the first commandment by placing the Orange Jesus ahead of God. Ask them why they're taking the name of God in vane (aka putting it on a sign and using it for selfish purposes). Ask them about the sign of Jonah, the one where a wicked and adulterous (Republican) generation looks for a sign, and none is given to it except the sign of Jonah, aka you big dummies put your own asses in the belly of the beast.
"We’ve braved the belly of the beast; we’ve learned that quiet isn’t always peace."
—Amanda Gorman at President Biden's inauguration.
To whom are you referring when you say “them”?
I thought that was obvious. My mistake.
There are real Christians. They're the ones who abide by the "treat others the way you would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot" principle. "them" is phony Christians. A person literally cannot be a real Christian and support the most anti-Christian individual in the history of anti-Christian individuals, aka the Orange Jesus.
So, lets call their bluff. Ask them to see their bibles. Maybe they've redacted every one of Jesus' commandments. That would explain everything.
"So, lets call their bluff."
Why? I don't want to call their stupid bluff. I don't want to engage in a moronic game of trying to demonstrate that they don't follow their rules--that just cedes the real victory to the people who want to post the decalogue in schools (and everywhere else) along with crosses and like that fish thing or whatever.
They aren't doing this because they think it's a good way to encourage moral behavior or something--they are doing this for the same reason that companies put logos on everything: it feels good to highlight your own culture and crowd out everybody else's, and it feels even better when you use the power of the state to do it.
If you are debating the ten commandments with them, they've won. Because then you are not ignoring some footnote from a tiny goatherder culture from thousands of years ago, you're acceding that this thing they like is Vital and Important and Relevant.
I remember a friend in grade school & I refused to speak the "under God" phrase that the author of the pledge of allegiance had not written. I could look up his name, but what's significant is that he was a church leader - a Protestant minister, I believe - & he knew not to violate the concept of separation of church & state.
I wonder if teachers can single out and punish members in a class who don't move their lips while "under God" is being recited in a group.
All schools, or all public schools?
Public schools only.
Any schools that receive public funding, which... Don't they have vouchers?
Mel had it right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w556vrpsy4w
Culture wars by the hypocrites.
Every time they break the 10 Commandments, they blame others for luring them into committing sin.
If you look at the wording of the law, they are using the pretext that it's a 'historical document' by having it displayed alongside the Mayflower Compact, the Declaration of Independence, and the Northwest Ordinance. https://legiscan.com/LA/text/HB71/2024
In the great state of South Dakota, they now have "In God we trust" mandated to be displayed in all schools. Perhaps that's gentle enough to escape judicial scrutiny more than the 10 Commandments will get.
https://apnews.com/general-news-278936edf8af4e7a9a55d8471f4da29d
At least our puppy- (and goat-) shooting governor seems to be out or the running for VP. We should all thank her for that self-pwn.
Both "In God We Trust" (on money) and "under God" (in the Pledge) were introduced/mandated during the Eisenhower administration at the height of anti-Communist hysteria.
"Eisenhower was a great president who never did nothing." - A. Bunker
Since the repulsives don't understand t-Rumps multi crimes, they must be published and taught in schools. They are so thick.
I'm very surprised to NOT see any comments about "Thou shalt not kill". After all, killing is something they love. It doesn't say, "murder" or "kill, except to save a life". it just says, "Thou shalt not kill" and I know of no police officer who could do his job with that limitation.
More recent (i.e. later than King James) translations of the Bible have changed "kill" to "murder".
Looked up various Bible translations of the Commandments. Bible Gateway has all of them. I never knew the original Bible commandments went on and on about things, unlike the condensed version I always saw.
Some Louisiana legislator said that they were displayed in classrooms until the 1970's, so this was just a return to how things used to be.
Me: elementary school grades 1-5 in a parochial school in western New York, then public school there for grade 6 and junior high grade 7. Then to southern Arizona for public middle school grade 8 and high school.
The Ten Commandments were never displayed in any classroom ever, although of course the parochial school classrooms had a cross (like a branch bank office I was in in Vienna) and a portrait of the Pope. But then none of those were in the actual Confederacy.
I dunno. It might be a good thing for Rs to have to see that "false witness" one every day.