I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy, but if he does it will be down to one thing: The Republican Party rolling over and playing dead for anything Trump does.
Pardoning all the J6 insurrectionists? Meh. Shutting down the NIH? Yawn. Huge tariffs on two of our most steadfast allies and neighbors? Whaddayagonnado? Firing everyone associated with investigating or prosecuting J6ers or Trump himself? Well, he's the president. Halting funding for programs that you yourselves authorized a few months ago? Everyone does it. Elon Musk and his crew mysteriously taking over the Treasury's payment system? It's all fine. We trust Elon. Threatening Denmark over Greenland? Boys will be boys. Removing mpox from the CDC site because it's mostly a virus of gay men? Huh. Starting up a scam crypto empire right before the inauguration? Man's gotta eat. Opening the floodgates on two California dams in winter and sending billions of gallons of water south to soak into a dry lakebed and be wasted—all on a whim? I'll have to get back to you. Pardoning the founder of the most notorious online drug trafficking site on the planet? Uh huh. Nominating half a dozen singularly unqualified nominees to run critical government departments? The president should get the staff he wants. Ending Secret Service protection for a few people he personally dislikes? Whatevs. Gulf of America? Why not?
With a few exceptions I can count on one hand, no Republican has raised so much as a peep about any of this. Trump is the boss and that's that. It's a poltroonish performance of astonishing depth.
My brother in Christ - it's already happening/happened. Where have you been?
Why the fuck aren't you worried?
Is your radical centrism flag perhaps flying too high today?
Kevin could have written this a bit clearer to avoid misunderstanding, but I'm pretty sure the responses to each of the questions posed about the outrageous happenings are meant to represent congressional Republicans and not Kevin.
This. These are not Kevin's responses / opinions. They are his somewhat inflated observations of Republican officials' responses to Trump's actions and, implicitly, his condemnation of their abandonment of principle in order to retain office.
Whether one thinks they are the result of craven cowardice or an expression of their own deep cruelty, they paint the entire cadre of Republican leaders nationally as clueless Nazi apologists.
Well done Kevin; they are clueless Nazi apologists.
Yes, we get that.
His first sentence is literally "I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy"
Also, Drum was very "meh" during the campaign about a second Trump term as I recall. At a minimum he was far less concerned than I and a lot of others were and, frankly, this has gotten far worse far faster than I even imagined.
If it helps, read it with emphasis like this:
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy, but if he does it will be down to one thing: The Republican Party rolling over and playing dead for anything Trump does."
Kevin is putting blame at the feet of the rest of the Republican party that is failing to police its own house.
That's not terribly exculpatory. I mean, if correct, then the response is who cares whose fault it is, it is happening. Why is it not a worry if it is all down to Trump?
I know that. I'm responding specifically to the very first sentence:
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy"
Imagine a graphic of a head with "YOU" written across it. Then add the word "JOKE" flying across above it.
I can't speak for him but I thought he was responding to Kevin's first sentence...
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy..."
This plus it's consistent with Kevin's statements in the past.
Hey, you missed the entire point also!
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy"
Reasonable people can disagree on what degree of peril our democracy is in. I'd recommend Ezra Klein's piece on this. Take away quote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-trump-column-read.html
I think there's some merit to that. Ezra's take is basically something along the lines of: True reform is going to require legislation. Trump doesn't have the congressional numbers nor the public backing for that, so he's trying to flood the zone with badness—a political blitzkrieg if you will—to bamboozle us all into thinking he's assumed dictatorial power. Don't fall for it!
Meanwhile:
*Fair and free elections haven't been eliminated (Dems just won a seat in Iowa, no less).
*A judge blocked their birthright citizenship madness.
*They were forced to back down on their government payments pause.
*They don't seem to be on the verge of taking over Greenland or the Panama Canal.
*The media is vigorously reporting on their actions.
*Law suits are just getting started.
*Most federal bureaucrats appears to be telling Trump to shove the early retirement bonus where the sun don't shine.
It's possible we could be in for a coup-like situation if Trump decides to ignore the courts, sure. We'll see. And the awfulness is truly epic on the trade and international affairs front, where the constitution gives the executive branch wide latitude.
But at this point, our democracy itself isn't dying, though Trump clearly wants you to think otherwise.
I think I'll dub you Expat Pollyanna. You fit right in with Kevin.
And I'll dub you hysterical MAGA mark. You're falling for the con.
He's not a dictator. But he sure as hell thanks you for thinking he is.
How cute of you. It must be nice, living somewhere else and not having to live through this shit directly every day.
"MAGA mark" - as if seeing, understanding, and wanting our leaders (and bloggers) to call this shit out and fight back against it is what MAGA wants. You're grasping at straws now. Knock it off.
What is the first thing Kevin wrote?
Imagine a graphic of a head with "YOU" written across it. Then add the word "POINT" flying across above it.
Sarcasm. I think Kevin's point is that Trump cannot steamroll democracy ALONE. He lists all the ways in which the GOP actually IS steamrolling democracy on behalf of Trump. Their terror of the GOP voter base (actually, the media that controls them) paralyzes their very souls. Much like the Eloi in The Time Machine, Trump blares some meaningless noise and they line up and march to their doom.
Pretty sure Kevin can edit his own posts.
You added alone. He so far has not added that.
That's my question as well.
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy..."
Why? Do you think the Republican Party will stand up to him? The Courts? Are you sure he'll listen to him?
This term is going very differently than his last one, and no one seems able to reign him in. In fact, he's surrounded by people egging him on. Tell me this stuff is unprecedented.
Why do you think he won't or can't steamroll democracy?
They LIKE this. They WANT this. are you really this blinded by your centrist moderate nonsense that you can’t see what’s in front of your face?
Some do. For others, like me, we have to take the bad with the good.
The choice was Trump with all of his issues or Kamala Harris, a more liberal version of Biden.
Given a choice between DOGE and increased spending and multi-hundred billion dollar student loan cancellations with no appropriation from Congress, I pick DOGE.
Given a choice between a hard end for trans women in female sports and spaces and transition / puberty delaying drugs for childre vs. an administration that refuses all limits on such matters I pick the hard end.
Given a choice between a hard end of all DEI and a purge to government, non-profit, and business leaders who supported it in any way or a continuation of attempts to force in quotas, preferences for minorities (racial, sexual, etc.), unconcious bias training, nonsense about native ways of knowing, etc. and I pick the hard end.
I am no fan of the J6ers, but I would be much more sympathetic to their prosecution if I had seen a comparable effort to catch and prosecute the vandals who tried to trash Washington DC when Netanyahu visited last year or the BLM activists who attacked federal property or committed federal crimes during the George Floyd riots.
I think threatening Denmark over Greenland is counterproductived and stupid but I think it would be great to add Greenland as a US territory and that a deal could probably be done by offering the Greenlanders enough money.
I do not think Ross Ulbricht should have been pardoned but I think a life sentence for operating a marketplace is unreasonable when many murderers get far less. I would have supported a commutation to 15 or 20 years.
I am not happy about some of Trump's nominations. Gabbard is an anti-American idiot. Kennedy is an anti-vaccine loon. Hegseth's heart is in the right place but I question whether he can control the Pentagon beuracracy. But I was not thrilled with Biden's picks either. Buttigieg was clearly incompetent, Mayorkas combined incompetence with wilful tolerance for malfeasance in the NIH with gain of function research and deliberate evasion of FOIA requests. Austin, of course, hid his surgical procedures from Congress.
I think ending Secret Service protection for people Trump does not like is not a crime. It is worse - a mistake. Trump is now at the mercy of our adversaries who can massively damage his presidency by assassinating one or more of his enemies. Just dumb.
But, when I compare with Biden and what I think Harris would have been like, well, I take the bad with the good.
Thanks for providing us a case study. Your powers of self delusion, equivocation, and rationalization are breathtaking. Bravo!
+100
You're assuming there's any good. You're an idiot.
Please don't feed the MF troll. It only leaves its droppings to get attention. Starve the troll.
+1
MF never argues in good faith, and there is no point at all in trying to repond to him.
You guys crack me up. I disagree with a majority of MF's opinions, but he is clearly arguing in good faith. This is his opinion, and he lays it out clearly and in an internally consistent manner. He is not some troll posting stuff just to piss off other people or anything. And unlike many of his critics here, he avoids ad hominem attacks. You know, sometimes people who disagree with your politics are NOT evil.
If he's spouting Fox News and Daily Wire talking points as facts then he's either operating in bad faith or working from such a delusional view of reality that there really isn't a practical difference. If known and unrepentant liars are your main source of info, then you aren't a serious person that deserves recognition in arguments.
Agreed, but he is not just spouting Fox talking points. Look at what he actually said (here and elsewhere) you will see that while he agrees with some of it, some of it he clearly disagrees with. Guy clearly shows signs of thinking for himself. He is a serious person.
sorry, you've been fooled. He "says" that he agrees with some things and not others but those of us who've read enough of MF's posts already spot the inconsistencies and lies. don't believe a word
I have to agree. I don’t agree with MF but what’s the point of slamming someone who comes here with opposing viewpoints. Even if he’s unlikely to change his opinions, there may be others reading these comments who may be on the fence about things who see the reactions and conclude it’s all just partisan. This just fuels polarization and does the Right’s work for them.
".. who comes here with opposing viewpoints.".
It is not just "opposing views". MF also regularly tells lies and use dishonest arguments. As as a result, it is too much time wasting to answer him.
MF usually parrots nonsense and lies so I had to give it to him here where spouts his world view. His states that there is a choice between DOGE and spending- that’s a false comparison- you want to control spending, go to the GOP Congress. Never mind what DOGE is doing, they cannot stop spending, at least not legally. The issue of transgenderism at the end of the day should be a state or local matter. Obviously there people who are uncomfortable with what’s happening and other countries have drawn back on the issue as real question remains. The DEI is a red herring. Where I work, beginning from OCR to the current regime, DEI has always been lip service. Let celebrate Black History Month! Hurrah! It’s a hill of beans. That said, why do people find it offensive to celebrate some ethnicities but not others. As to the rest that was written, and I may be reading way too much into it, but it does appear that some reservations are creeping into MF thoughts. Perhaps, he should have thought about these things before voting for an insane moron but hey baby steps, maybe invading Panama may be worth it after all. /s
The choice was not between Trump, Harris, and a Republican of my choice. It was between Trump and Harris.
I knew from day 1 that I was not going to like many things Trump does. I'm a free trade supporting neo-con anti-spending low-tax libertarian lite. But I still think I'm going to be happier with him than I would have been with Harris.
You may be right about DOGE or Trump and Musk may Milei the state - really cut a big chunk of discretionary domestic spending and get a serious conversation started at least about cutting entitlements or capping them at X% of GDP with an automatic reduction in outgoing payments if they exceed that.
“Free trade”= Dem; “neo-con”= nobody but Dems are certainly into international alliances to defend US causes, Reps, not so much; “anti-spending”= you don’t get that from Reps; “low-tax”= definitely Rep.- me on the other hand, remain a believer in fiscal responsibility; “libertarian”- the word has lost a lot of its meaning- are you taking about sex, religious and vice issues? Not the GOP. Are you talking about the right to trash the planet? Let’s put it this way, does one believe in the issues in a serious matter or just like noise? One party does, the other does not. Let me say that if the Dems has nominated a insurrectionist felon with the moral compass of an insect, I, for one, would not have voted for that person, but YMMV. Meanwhile, let’s drown the desert with millions of gallons of water.
Thanks.
One very telling point - not one of the people attacking me has made a substantive response to my points.
It's all "Na na I can't hear you! I'm covering my ears!"
But I am fine with that. I think you are totally correct about what others reading these comments think... and not just people on the fence - we are seeing an amazing movement of people who used to be pretty committed liberals to the Republican Party. I don't think it is that many, but in a 50-50 nation a movement of 2% of voters is earth shaking.
BTW, see https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/us/democrats-ipsos-poll-abortion-lgbt.html and https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/us/politics/democrats-trump.html.
Your unsubstantial points don't deserve a substantial responce. You gloss over the bad and the worst of Trumps acts while parroting all his culture war bullshit.
"This just fuels polarization and does the Right’s work for them."
oh FFS
just stop
". . . but he is clearly arguing in good faith."
This appears to be a new and unfamiliar use of the phrase "good faith."
Posting links of video stills of Clinton and Obama edited to make it look like they're giving a Nazi salute in a false equivelancy argument to counter Musks actual video of a nazi salute isn't trolling behavior? It's not the first time either.
How do you argue in good faith when it's mostly lies?
+1
Why does pointless argumentation with the likes of MF appeal to so many around here? It's mind-boggling. Trolls have a ravenous appetite for engagement, and are terrified of being ignored.
Ignore them! Not doing so often generates a lengthly and counterproductive thread highjack, which is a primary goal. It would appear this time that highjack ballooned to a good 30+ comments, which makes the remaining, reasoned discussion harder to follow.
Sigh.
Do they pay you in Rubles or Yuan?
Probably with eggs.
I have a guess about what MF stands for. MFer, to be more clear.
He does that on purpose, the same way Musk makes the Nazi salute and says he meant “my heart goes out to you” or when he calls a woman “the C word” then says he meant “communist”. It’s a sign of immature trolling.
Exactly right.
You could have saved yourself all those words by simply saying:
"I prefer to see everyone suffer and get their lives destroyed in some degree, if that means everyone I hate gets to suffer as much as possible"
You've just demonstrated in excruciating detail what an asshole you are. How can one person be so wrong about so many things?
Honestly, I tend to agree quite a lot with MF here. From a Republican Party lens, there's not much here that's going to cost them at the ballot box - which is all they care about.
The anti-vax stuff is a landmine and they know it. Kennedy will have a really tough time.
There's broad support for immigration restrictions and deportations. Right up until it raises prices. Same for tariffs.
The average voter might be alarmed that a bunch of stuff has been removed from the CDC site, but that doesn't impact their lives...yet.
The average voter knows perfectly well that climate change is happening, despite the Felon Administration wiping all mention of it. Anyone who has property insurance is feeling that right where it hurts - their wallet. Renters will feel it as rents go up because insurance went up. The administration can pretend all they want, insurers aren't pretending.
Where I think the plan falls apart for the Felon Administration is when they start enacting their Christian Nationalist agenda. Voters are not going to stand for that and that's when shit gets real. When they take a run at birth control and abortion - and you know they will - that's when it all falls apart for them. Deciding to officially make America a "Christian Nation" will make it all fall apart, people might align Christian but sure don't want it shoved down their throats.
I also think the wild card is the economy. The administration can say the country is going to have a painful transition but it will be worth it, but the voters don't like pain. A painful transition is likely to backfire at the ballot box. A market crash and recession are also major threats to keeping the voters from spooking. Odds are very high for both of those.
well reasoned
"The administration can say the country is going to have a painful transition but it will be worth it." Except it won't be. It'll be hard to hide that fact, even from his cult.
Blocking payments to their favorite good works is going to put a spin on things.
You are a traitor to your country for the views you take.
One. DOGE (whatever the fuck that is) aren't vetted government employees. They have no idea what they are doing or screwing with. That they have power to do anything at all is a violation of the constitution of the United Sates of America, which states the the executive branch executes the laws of congress faithfully. Also, when a rich powerful man doxxes midlevel bureaucrats to tens of milllions of X followers, at measurable percentage known to be violent extremists, then that is attempted murder. Musk should be held responsible for the terrorizing he is doing.
On the subject of Trans - Trans athletes are a tiny issue. A few hundred people out of hundreds of millions. Also, trans care for pre-teens is a thorny issue, but shouldn't he libertarian option be to LET THE FAMILIES decide? Also, Trump is completely anti-trans and is targeting millions of innocent adult Trans people for prejudice and scapegoating.
DEI stands for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. It is merely a doctrine that teaches that all people should be valued equally and that no one should be separated due to their innate differences. While some excess zealotry can be reined in, destroying all DEI programs is just a rampant return to blatant racist practices of the 50s and 60s.
The J6 insurrectionists attempted to overthrow the government of the United States of America and institute a fascist dictatorship. You may have forgotten what fascism is, but my grandfather took bullets and shrapnel from them in France, back in 1944. So I haven't. Those people should serve the punishment for their crimes of Murder, Assault, Vandalism, Breaking and Entering, Conspiracy to Overthrow the government.
Greenland is the territory of a foreign power and an ally. Why are we threatening our Allies and why are we weakening things like NATO? Trump is like an abusive Husband, isolating his wife so he can beat her with impunity. It would be nice if the threats were directed at our actual enemies. Nations that have actually attacked us and our allies..
Ross Ulbricht - Who the fuck? Who cares. It was a promise to Libertarians in order to secure their votes.
Trumps nominees are notable but not illegal - Its damning that such incompetence is being rubber-stamped at the congressional level. I sincerely hope the republican party wears this malfeasance as a lodestone around their necks.
Ending SS protection for a people who undertook risky actions ON TRUMPS BEHEST during his first term, shows Trumps lack of integrity. Should any of them die to assassination via agents of Iran, it would be fitting to engrave on their Tombstones, BETRAYED.
Trump lacks integrity and routinely forces other people to give up their own integrity. He betrays people. His path is littered with people who have served him but were later thrown to the wolves. There is almost no one who has crossed paths with Trump and come out happier and more wholesome for it. Not ever.
Now all of America is being dismantled as Trump is remaking us into a society ruled by fear and mistrust. He is turning us against each other. Weakening us as a nation. We have abandoned our post as defenders of truth and freedom. Only our Allies, who we are now BETRAYING, are still there. Our enemies are circling, allying with each other and growing stronger. They have a new world order to impose, one that puts free countries at the bottom, not at the top. It is a world of violence and control. There is no room for freedom in it.
+1
+1
The Friend speaks my mind.
(That's for you, Quaker in a Basement.)
Oh horror of horrors, MoFo; Kamala Harris would have let Trump's tax cuts expire, and you and your rich buddies at the country club would have had to pay a bit more in taxes.
All this "social issues" stuff is just you being a selfish What Boah hypocrite. You've had "DEI" advantages since you slithered out from between your mother's legs.
Almost everyone would have to pay more taxes. Over 90% or workers benefitted from Trump’s tax cuts. It is an outright law whenever Dems say they only benefitted the rich.
We're aware of the fig leaf Trump constructed for his tax cuts.
Everyone does not benefit equally. And if to balance the budget services must be slashed, who do you suppose depends on those services?
Most people are not aware that 90% of workers benefitted from Trump’s tax cuts. Whenever you see talking heads in TV they all say some version of “only the wealthy benefited from the tax cuts”. It’s an outright lie that is repeated by almost every democrat.
That depends on how carefully you're reading/listening, and probably what your sources are. Almost of the published commentary I've seen uses variations on "ALMOST all the benefits of the Trump tax cuts went to rich people". A $10 a year saving for the average working stiff means that the rich didn't quite get ALL the benefit, but close, very close.
"Kamala Harris, a more liberal version of Biden.
lol
stopped reading after this hysterical take
That was a lot of words to say "I support the treasonous rapist doing illegal, unconstitutional things because I like those things and am a howling bigot."
You are, of course, not a libertarian. Libertarians aren't panty-sniffers.
"Libertarian" is just a spell one chants to ward off opprobrium. It's like casting salt over your shoulder or [reference to particular religious rituals redacted]. It has meaning the way wearing a backwards mask to scare off tigers has meaning.
"Libertarian" has meaning, but that meaning is a least as variable as the meaning of "conservative".
Angry bigot MF reminds us that his only real concerns center around bigotry and misogyny. When Trump or his cabinet veer away from straight bigotry, MF loses interest. Somehow this is is all the fault of liberals and democrats.
Poor, angry guy. Desperate for attention.
+1
Well said. I agree with you on almost every point.
Everyone: A couple weeks ago I lumped together MF, Leo, and Atticus as regular commenters here who routinely comment in bad faith, and a couple people piped up to say, "Hey, Atticus isn't like those other two."
Anyone care to say that now?
I was one of them.
I am less convinced now. That is definitely trollish from atticus (and very trollish from MF, obviously).
+1
I missed that but thank to anyone that defended me. Please know that I never comment in bad faith (I.e. being a troll). I obviously have more conservative opinions than most people here but I comment here because I enjoy the back and forth and discussing various topics with people of diverse perspectives. I attribute these conversations (and Kevin’s posts), in part, for my leftward swerve on many topics and my willingness to call out Republicans on their nonsense and lies.
I could have expanded on my last comment more. But I stand by the fact that some of those things MF mentioned are, in my opinion, preferable under Trump than the alternatives under Biden.
+1
" multi-hundred billion dollar student loan cancellations with no appropriation from Congress" This was in fact full authorized by Congress, (read the statutes that expressly permitted this, and all money was duly appropriated by congress. Unfortunately we have a corrupt supreme court that doesn't believe they have to abide b the text of a statute and they can decide whatever the want.
Yes you're a MAGA cultist. We already knew that.
This is my constant refrain: All the stupid things could stop by lunchtime if only a handful of Republicans want it to.
But they don't want it to stop. They like this. It's no longer some distinct "Trumpism" -- it's just Republican policy.
+5. Republicans in office like it. And their voters are no longer paying attention to the consequences, just the big mouth "manliness" and strutting that they voted for. Oh, and the tears and feckless hand-wringing from Democrats and libs.
As I said to myself back in 2015, when he rode down that fucking escalaror -- he's gonna win the GOP nomination because he *is* the id of the Republican Party.
That's still true.
The reason Republicans don't do anything is not just "because Trump".
Trump is a Republican with all negative traits dialed up to 11, but policywise every policy of his is a policy that Republicans have pushed for or tried to implement at some point or another over the past 50 years. The error of many on the left, and everybsingle Centrist, particularly people like Kevin, is to think that Republicans aren't really this bad.
Policy wise, the Republicans have traditionally been the party of free trade. It was the Bush administration that negotiated NAFTA, although it wasn't ratified until after Clinton took office. The whole tariff thing is "because Trump".
And the GOP can no longer claim to be the Conservative party. What are they trying to conserve?
The social hierarchy.
The socioeconomic hierarchy, but when you have the socio the economic generally follows.
The word "conservative" has changed in meaning over the years. It used to mean preserving the status quo, but now it just means right wing. Words have a tendency to take on new or different meanings over time - fun-loving people aren't generally called gay any more, and, unfortunately, when someone literally died of laughter, they're not actually dead.
It's always meant right-wing. At least in living memory.
Those who say otherwise are lying to you, as cover for the fascists. Especially when they say "preserving the status quo" - no, that would be moderates, not conservatives.
“Very few in the bureaucracy actually work the weekend, so it's like the opposing team just leaves the field for 2 days!
Working the weekend is a superpower”
Elon Musk on X
Elon has the current ability to cut any program he wants by stopping payments. There is no one to stop him. Not sure why Kevin isn’t worried about that.
It's another go at unlawful impoundment, only easier for them. To say nothing of the massive potential cybersecurity risk - much of this data has been downloaded onto private servers for Musk's people to paw at.
Please provide your evidence that data has been downloaded onto private servers.
I think you made this part up.
Well, here's one place where it's referred to:
https://bsky.app/profile/joshtpm.bsky.social/post/3lh6b55ps7k2u
I assume that is supposed to be a link to a post on Blue Sky but when I go to it all I get is a picture of a blue butterfly on a black background.
Anyway an unsupported claim by some rando on social media is not evidence. Link to reputable media, or even the New York Times.
MoFo; defending the indefensible --and blatantly illegal -- yet again. Go MoFo!
Far away.
See Kevin's next post.
The New York Times and AP have reported that Musk has "gained access to sensitive Treasury payment systems." The data contains information about all Americans that we have been led to believe will be kept confidential, and is used to process trillions of dollars in payments. He was granted this access by the newly appointed Secretary of the Treasury. Now that he has it, it's trivial to copy it to anywhere he wants.
Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/01/us/politics/elon-musk-doge-federal-payments-system.html?searchResultPosition=3
AP: https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-elon-musk-doge-treasury-5e26cc80fcb766981cea56afd57ae759
I have my doubts anything has been downloaded to private servers, which would be crimes on top of crimes if you understand how all of that is set up.
The president is a lifelong habitual felon. He is on tape showing the US's current contingency battle plans for a war with Iran to any tom dick or harry who wandered in off the street. He doesn't give a rat's ass about legality or criminality.
All Elon is doing is identifying the payments, he can't unilaterally cut them, or will end up in prison, and he knows that. Cutting payments would be where Trump comes in, and his primary accountability will be to Congress, so he could sew some chaos there if he chooses before the backlash gets too great.
You actually think Congress is going to step in to try to stop Trump from "cutting payments"? They already tried to do that, and where was Congress?
You actually think someone is going to be able to arrest Muskrat, especially when he can just stop them from getting paid?
This is ridiculous. The idea that Elon Musk could be arrested and imprisoned is just hilarious. Who, pray tell, would do that? The DOJ? ROFLMAO!
Cutting them would be a violation of the impoundment control act. That is not a criminal law. There is no penalty associated with breaking that law. Further, our utterly corrupt supreme court just ruled that even if it was criminal law and carried the harshest penalty imaginable, the president is immune from prosecution. It is of course obvious that the present court would extend that immunity to someone who may be operating at the behest of president Trump.
The idea is that laws constraining the president are enforceable by impeachment. Regrettably, impeachment of the president has never worked the way the Founders intended. (Impeachment of federal judges, the only government officers other than the president to ever be impeached, is much less partisan and so works better.)
I'm 50% sure that rule of law/democracy just died on Friday. Not that there haven't been ongoing assaults and constant flouting of the law by Republicans, but this isn't even merely illegal - it's outside of the system entirely. An unelected, unappointed person just took control of the federal treasury. Even if that control is only tenuous right now, he may have just become the puppetmaster for real. What happens if somebody tries to say no, you can't do this? He can shut off paychecks for anybody who tries to stop him.
Voters who sat out the election, too, weren't particularly worried about the end of liberal democracy in America. Do you think they were right?
Most of the stay-home folks were in blue states where it didn't matter. Much fewer stay-home folks in swing states, where instead you had low-information idiots . . . er, voters with almost fantastically detached views of reality about Trump voting for him because they were unhappy about Biden and inflation.
Every vote matters, even in the bluest of blue states. It sends a clear message of support. Had they voted in the blue states, perhaps the convicted felon wouldn't have won the popular vote.
Well, don't forget the extensive efforts by Republicans to suppress the vote, keep people from registering, red tape at the polls, fewer polling places and less convenient, throwing out ballots from "those people" ...
You can't blame it all on voter laziness or apathy.
"He didn't destroy democracy last time, what's the big deal?"
They've been completely tamed by his cult of personality. Even privately, all they do is express nervousness about this - but there's no opposition left in the GOP. It's Trump's party now, and not only are they not expressing opposition - they're frantically showing comical subservience to it in public.
I mean if King Donald trusts him, then it's all right, right?
I'm not convinced anymore that Trump will have a breach anytime soon with Musk. He's obviously become more decrepit and lazy, and is heavily dependent on Musk to implement his plans. He won't fire Musk anymore than the Romanovs could bring themselves to get rid of Rasputin.
Two other plans that he has mentioned in public and everyone responded with a shoulder shrug:
- Voters won't have to vote in anymore after the 2024 elections
- He will remain President after his term ends
We laughed about how outrageous and unbelievable all of his other telegraphed plans would be...
....and then after they happen we pretend to be surprised that he did exactly what he told us he would do....
...and we still nervously laugh and tell each other not to believe the other things he is telling us he will do...
...and we close by mocking anyone who takes Trumps plans seriously.
Rinse and repeat
I was in the "no way will he try and stay in office, he'll go peacefully" camp after the 2020 election. Now I'm in the "I wouldn't put anything past him" club. He's going to try and stay, and if he's got the military under his thumb, he just might succeed.
It looks like he plans to use the FBI and DOJ, rather than the army or a "immigrants deprting militia".
And didn't all of them swear to uphold the Constitution of these United States?
So cute.
Maybe Trump got a little confused--doesn't he have to swear to faithfully execute the laws of the US? No, not that kind...
The Convict Chief didn't ever touch the Bible stack while "swearing." So it's like crossing your fingers when you make a promise. Right?
In his tiny brain, yes. Unfortunately all Reps seem to have the same tiny brain. We are well and truly screwed. I'd love to hear how we get out of this mess.
Sorry Kevin but this is despicably smug "Aarfy" Aardvark-level bullshit. Trump has already "steamrolled democracy". I imagine you've learned a little history; if so, you'd know that getting the courts, the legislature, the military and the police cowed into submission/excited about your agenda is textbook preparation for regime change. Musk has pulled it off effortlessly with the cooperation of his front man Trump. It's not "poltroonish", it's a coup with the MAGA mob screaming hysterical approval.
This seems off. The situation isn't good, but let's not exaggerate. There are still the courts. I see no reason to believe the judiciary will rubber stamp fraudulent prosecutions. So far the broad brushstrokes of what is going on are consistent with my expectations:
(1) No out and out autocracy: Free and fair elections haven't been eliminated; Congress is still capable of pushback; judges can check the executive branch; states still possess sovereignty in their spheres; the press can vigorously report.
(2) Our democratic *norms* are indeed being eroded. No explanation needed.
(3) Lots and lots and lots of policy awfulness, especially on trade, foreign relations, and state capacity.
But I will freely admit to not expecting the *intensity* of all three. It's mind-blowing.
"There are still the courts."
That doesn't help if you have FBI which is full of Trump toadies that are:
happy to lie and fabricate evidence "for the cause".
happy to use such lies and fabricated evidence to intimidate everybody (witnesses, judges, juries).
fully supported by all the command chain above them in the FBI and DOJ.
" Free and fair elections haven't been eliminated; "
Once he corrupted enough the FBI/DOJ, he can intimidate or kill any serious opposition politicians. So you can vote, but the only candidates are Trump's toadies. That is a standard practice in dismenatling democracy. CF Putin.
Maybe the courts are still there, but perhaps only because they haven't been tested.
But when there were tests that involved things that might have disqualified Grand Leader Donny, the system folded.
It was popular to try to forget that the Trump team undertook political targeted prosecutions for the sole purpose of prosecuting political rivals and the judicial system did not stop it. Biden had to pardon his son to escape this situation. The courts did not stop it.
If the courts continue on this path, no matter how far down the path they go, people will still do what you are doing as a way to rationalize and survive what is happening. No matter how bad it is, we can always insist that it could be worse, and therefore things are okay.
He's just prosecuting the people who kind of deserved it, so it's okay.
Is there some reason to think Musk won’t defund a federal court he doesn’t like? He now has total control of payments and can unilaterally determine that a payment is “illegal” and withhold funds.
No he can't.
We don't actually know that he won't. The word "can't" is gone from the dictionary when it comes to what Trump and Musk will or won't do.
"Is there some reason to think Musk won’t defund a federal court he doesn’t like?"
What does that even mean? "Defund a federal court" indeed--as if the judge would just say "huh, he's got me there!" rather than recognizing that, whether or not Musk stops payments to the court, those payments will get restored the moment Musk gets booted from the system upon an order from said court.
There are plenty of things wrong and terrible about some dickhead billionaire dilletenting around in the federal government's payment systems on behalf of a corrupt president (after all, that's how Russia and other oligarchies operate, where the division between state actors and private actors basically doesn't matter), but the threat of controlling courts by "defunding" them isn't one of them.
[David Lebryk, Acting Secretary of the Treasury] “left the agency after a clash with allies of billionaire Elon Musk over access to sensitive payment systems” (WaPo).
He wouldn’t have resigned if he had been backed up by the President, his only superior as an acting Cabinet secretary.
He resigned after the secretary was confirmed and he was no longer acting secretary. I don't believe Lebryk has ever given any reason for why he resigned, but it is quite common for people to resign after they lose acting secretary jobs. The had reached the pinnacle and no place to go but down. Also, the more time you are from acting secretary, the less in salary you can command in the private sector.
Trump has made his contempt for the courts clear time after time. There is no reason to think he would follow court orders he didn't like, and the idea either the DoJ or Congress would do anything about it is fanciful.
There's plenty of reason to believe Trump follows court orders: He has never ignored a court ruling in his life, as far as I know. He doesn't have the balls. You may note the children of undocumented immigrants are still able to get US passports. Because a judge said so. You may notice Trump showed up (digitally) in a NYC court room to receive his criminal conviction. Because the Supreme Court said so.
Repeat after me: Trump. Is. Not. A. King.
He just wants you to think he is. Don't fall for it.
(I don't deny the possibility exists he may—likely because of very bad advice—decide at some point to force a constitutional crisis and start ignoring the orders of judges. I think that's not likely, but it's not impossible! If that happens I'll change my mind, like Keynes,)
I spend most of my time around liberals and I've been dismayed about how blasé they have been about Republican radicalism and how absolutely critical it was during this last election that they win. Kevin talks about Fox News but they are friggin moderates compared to what is coming to Republicans via radio and internet podcasts. Most Republican politicians are not radicals, just people who love money, but a large fraction of their (primary voting) base could give a crap about democracy. They just want feel powerful by either putting their foot on the neck of someone else, or having their surrogate do it.
For Musk and his cronies, it's a small thing to connect voting to payments. Having the executive decide who gets paid, and who gets a knock on the door from ICE, is where we are headed.
".. how blasé they have been about Republican radicalism.."
That fact that large number of them think trump is a moron/idiot, and therefore doesn't recognize how dangerous he is, helps them being blasé.
".. knock on the door from ICE."
It will be FBI for American citizen (with a search/arrest warrant based on fabricated evidence).
How do they connect voting to payments?
Throwing the country under the bus is a small price to pay for avoiding a primary challenge and/or threats of violence. Plus, becoming the enemy of MAGA limits your wingnut welfare possibilities.
The voters, though. Some are plain and simple, dumbfucks.
Sarah Longwell's latest focus groups have many voters excited that the convicted felon is 'doing something'. Their tiny pea brains can't comprehend that 'doing something' also means cutting off their own dicks, so to speak. There might not be a better example of FAFO.
And this is why I'm 100% here for the Schadenfreude.
I suppose starting a nuclear war would be "doing something" but that's not something I would like to get done thank you very much.
Bottom line is it's so much easier to blame the politicians for enabling Trump but in reality the people themselves are to blame. Politicians basically follow their constituents otherwise they wouldn't be politicians for very long. I know it's taboo to say the people are at fault but what else can you say? They have made it clear this is what they want (especially Republican voters) and they deserve to get it.
"They have made it clear this is what they want (especially Republican voters) and they deserve to get it."
The majority (bare though it is) made it clear that they don't want what Trump is doing.
America is a shit show. Let it burn.
Of course, it’s not burning and the fear is, so far, unjustified . When will it become justified to Mr. drum? Never?
It’s one thing to dislike the actions and policies of your political opponents; it’s another thing to fear them. When does that happen for Mr Drum?
"Let it burn."
Your house first.
There is no “Republican Party”.
There is only MAGA.
The Dems need to stop with the "Trump-this & Trump-that" and start pinning all this on the republicans - "the republican tariffs" - "the ensuing republican recession" - "the republican looting of the treasury".
They need to make the gop own this, which i know is wishful thinking because they simply can't do anything right ever.
This. I have believed this for a long time.
What I just posted on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/dfhoughton.bsky.social/post/3lh76abzibk2w
same here - https://bsky.app/profile/kingm0b.bsky.social/post/3lgv7qawypc25
I just followed you both.
Very good point! Even more important because in the long run Trump won't be there (I suspect he may not last his term) - Musk and Vance seem too sure, of themselves for my liking - and what was this comment of Trump saying he "had no leverage" on Musk - on the surface that is pure bullshit, something stinks.
Agreed. The media has largely left the GOP off the hook because it is so enthralled to Trump they feel it's a waste of their time to even point this out. Better to write another stupid article about how the Dems aren't opposing Trump with flame throwers. I mean it's nuts that one party's behavior it's simply and the entire onys for opposition is put on just one party alone, as if that alone made a difference. Glad KD pointed this out because politics can't work if this is the case.
Agreed.
"I'm not especially worried about Trump steamrolling democracy"
I stopped reading right there. Drum is simply a fucking idiot. And it's even worse when you add this to recent posts in which he looks to John Roberts (the creator--from whole cloth!--of Trumpian immunity) to save us. But I am going to stop calling him Pollyanna and dub him the Alfred E. Newman of commentators. What, him worry?
The thought there is a movement led by Trump could try to steamroll, but constitutionally loyal and patriotic Republicans would stymie it, along with Democrats in closely split Congress and other separations of powers.
The first part of that doesn't seem to be happening, so Kevin mentions reason for worry.
WHAT "Republican Party"?
There hasn't been much of a "Republican Party" distinct from the Cult of Trump for, what, 6 years or so?
There WAS such a Republican Party. It had people like Liz Cheney -- a born-and-bred Fascist -- and Adam Kinzinger. Some of them were even willing to do things like, say, let LGBTQ people live their lives in peace. But they were Cast Out by the Faithful YEARS ago. They are people without a party.
What goes by the name "Republican Party" today are a bunch of enablers, sycophants, and willing allies -- including not a few outright zealots and sociopaths. They're not going to 'raise a peep" about ANY of "this," except to lavish praise on it.
The sentiment is noble, but you might as well expect Santa Claus to do something.
Robert Reich has a good take on this:
https://open.substack.com/pub/robertreich/p/the-fuking-nightmare?r=4xr555&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
He argues that maybe the US has to go through this to finally face up to the truth about what's been happening for the last 40 years.
And I don't agree that most Republicans want this. Some do, but not most. But they're cowards, pure and simple. They created this monster and don't know how to control it. Mary Shelly should be required reading for all Republicans.
GOP earworm:
https://youtu.be/5a2LR2DWx2E?si=u768R2ZK0DQhMScX
Yes. Most of them are neither stupid nor evil (except in the banal way): they are cowards. They privately think something should be done and that someone else should do it. Publicly they back Trump to the hilt, because they're afraid of the stupid, evil, and/or cowardly people that will come after them.
Imagine a zombie apocalypse, but most of the beings eating the brains or the living are themselves living and trying to hide in the crowd.
There's also a healthy dose of avarice here. A politician's first job is to get elected and re-elected. (It's supposed to be serving the people, but that's a discussion for another time.) They saw Trump as a way to help them get elected and were willing to overlook the dangers. Think about how critical they were of him in 2016, only to suddenly become fans when he won. Like the Lady from Niger, they took a ride on the tiger.
Very good take by Reich, thanks for posting that.
Kevin
You know I've been a fan for a long, long time, but you're not internalizing how bad this is. Please rethink any further posts like this one, because it amounts to a form of misinformation from a trusted source. There is nothing to be blase about. The evidence of what's happening is crystal clear. To draw reasonable probabilities from overwhelming evidence is not crying wolf, it's the essence of rationality. Look hard at your own biases, Mr. Drum. They're deeply distorting your ability to see and understand what's happening right in front your and everyone's eyes, and we need all hands on deck for the fight ahead. Think hard on this, brother. It couldn't be more important.
I always love it when someone screams about the 'fight ahead'. What fight? In what way is there going to be a fight? Please, I'd love to know. Exactly how is anyone going to fight back against this? Votes? Please. If you already believe the next election is going to be rigged, then what the fuck are you talking about? There ARE no organizations left that can fight back. The people are deluded by media and utterly blind. There is no fighting that. The fight already happened and we lost. Lies beat truth hands down in a world where all media is treated exactly like speech. The wealthy bought all the megaphones and no one will ever hear anything but those. Not now. Not ever.
This is not true, the election was lost on inflation, and from the looks of it the next couple elections will swing back the other way due to economic worries as well.
There is no political consensus large enough to put MAGA in power or to keep them there, economics is the tipper.
+1. There's no counterbalancing force. OTOH, it's not a tight grip yet.
Though opposition media has mostly been bought out, they haven't banned what's left, and the states still control congressional elections.
"There is no fighting that. The fight already happened and we lost."
Good point--best move is to preemptively comply and surrender. Jfc, whose side are you on?
"The wealthy bought all the megaphones"
I'd accuse you of being bought, too, but I strongly suspect that they didn't have to pay you anything.
Most American employees, especially minimum and median hourly wage earners, have to endure bosses just like Trump. American workers are able to surrender their self-regard and tolerate indignities from their supervisors and managers on a daily basis. Republicans and the rest of Americans will have to learn how to cope with the typical American worker's experience and be grateful they have jobs.
Reminds of an interview I saw with Family Guy creator Seth McFarlane back in 2015-16 on Fallon or Colbert or some show like that and he was asked why so many creators and performers in Hollywood are liberal Trump-haters and his response was that Trump was basically every self-aggrandizing, greedy, lying, sexual-harrassing studio executive they've had to deal with and they *hate* those assholes.
As for hourly workers? Even if they hate their Trumpish bosses, a lot of them still love MAGA. Go figure. Cognitive dissonance is a real thing.
Where is the Republican Party? Up Trump's ass trying to find more spots to kiss, apparently.
The takeaway: they never gave a shit about liberty, government restraint, states rights or any of that bullshit. They were fascists the whole time. As ex-Republican operative Stuart Steven's aptly-titled book put it: "It Was All A Lie."
It's not evident that Republican lawmakers could put an end to "Trumpism" or the MAGA movement. At any rate Kevin and others who put the burden on those lawmakers have not thought the problem through.
Any Republicans who voted to impeach and/or convict Trump would be primaried. Many of them might be replaced by even more extreme right-wingers. How many would take the chance on losing the next election? Whatever their own ideology, if they have any, their own places come first.
If impeachment succeeded Trump would be replaced by Vance. It's likely that Vance would continue Trump's moves since Trump is not doing anything he didn't promise before the election. Vance could be even more radical if he thought it would be to his and Republicans' advantage. That he would be a great improvement over Trump and would reverse what amounts to a coup that would be giving him more power is certainly nothing that can be counted on.
The idea that Trump owes his election to economic issues is just false. People give this as a reason in polls and interviews, but few people will admit that the real reason is bigotry, or that they're just going along with the crowd. All evidence is that lower-income people who vote for Republicans, not just Trump, do so in opposition to their own economic interests. It is amazing how this evidence is ignored in the media, in favor of taking poll/interview replies literally. These voters are not going to instantly reject Trump if the economic news is somewhat bad - they have been the losers from Republican policies for decades, and since that is not their primary concern it hasn't changed them.
It may take a very bad recession or some other major disaster for overall opinion to really turn around and for that to filter through to Congress.
Too much is presumed what lower-income voters know and think about economics, whereas inflation and high prices is something you can't miss.
Enough people remembered (much) lower prices when Trump was president to put him over the top, many of these same people are probably more likely to vote against him next time if the upcoming predictable economic turn from Trump's policies occurs (most likely 4 years from now, hard to say in 2 years).
I have to admit, I didn’t think one of the very first groups the Republicans would go after would be the Lutherans:
https://bsky.app/profile/bubbaprog.lol/post/3lh77ekgdas2h
I guess we know why Musk is gaining access and probable control over the country's checkbook. This just gets worse.
There's this thing called the Christian Nationalism movement, but it's an exclusive club, and Lutherans need not apply.
Catholic conservatives should know that they're not the in-group either. The tell is when Trump would say, as he did a few times during the campaign, "Christians and Catholics." Different groups. Sooner or later, they'll know why that is.
My take on Musk's control of Treasury payments is that he can use the system to find out where the "dark" programs are and find a way to get into them to get contracts.
Not that they count as Republican politicians, but it seems the WSJ doesn't especially like the tariffs:
https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-tariffs-25-percent-mexico-canada-trade-economy-84476fb2?mod=hp_opin_pos_0
Trump is aware:
The "Tariff Lobby," headed by the Globalist, and always wrong, Wall Street Journal, is working hard to justify Countries like Canada, Mexico, China, and too many others to name, continue the decades long RIPOFF OF AMERICA, both with regard to TRADE, CRIME, AND POISONOUS DRUGS that are allowed to so freely flow into AMERICA. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!
Is there supposed to be a snark /s on this post? I sure hope so.
In case it wasn’t clear, that was a quote from Trump on Truth Social. It really does amuse me that Trump is calling the WSJ always wrong. And I do get what “globalist” means.
If we could only tariff irony we could pay off the national debt, because there is a glut of irony coming as Trump does in office exactly the things that he promised on the campaign trail while the WSJ, the business community in general, and so many others did everything possible to make sure he got elected. Now it's all "whoops, we didn't mean that!"
The lack of alarmism is spread far wider than the Republican Party. I'd say a fair number of Democrats are in a wait-and-see mode. TV news and legacy media (NYT, NPR) are still soft-pedaling the blatant attacks on America that Trump, Musk, Miller, and Heritage are making right now. The stock market has moved sideways so far during Trump 2.0.
But there is a time for alarmism, and the time for alarmism is now!
I think we see a huge shift coming as early as Monday morning. The business community is indeed alarmed (if not so publicly yet), and people with a lot of money and influence see what's ahead. It ain't good.
What can be done, I don't know. But those sirens you hear in the distance are going to get a lot louder quickly.
Today the world of crypto is taking a bath. The mild sell-off in stocks on Friday afternoon may be about to get bigger and faster before you know it. Planes falling out of the sky get only so much notice, but a market crash gets everyone's attention.
The GOP just wants power aka winning elections. Priority one will be their nemesis - the poor and minorities. I fear they’ll use the Trump sweep to pass voter suppression legislation, excuse me- “enhanced voter security”.
Opposition will have to file complaints through our fair and balanced DoJ, or file a suit almost bound to appeal through a Trump appointee or survive to face a 6-3 supreme court. Before voter referendums get on a ballot, they’ll have to qualify via new rules for “enhanced voter security”
After 2 years, if they keep the trifecta, they’ll come after blue states. We will have effectively traded Democracy for Oligarchy.
With a few exceptions I can count on one hand, no Republican has raised so much as a peep about any of this.
Actually there are Republican exceptions who have raised more than a peep about some of Trump's appointees or policies -- but they have been from the farthest right side and they speak up when they find these appointees or policies insufficiently conservative.
Seems like most of those Republican "concerns about an appointee" get promptly reversed with a phone call on the day of the vote
"With a few exceptions I can count on one hand, no Republican has raised so much as a peep about any of this." They did put a kibosh on a child rapist becoming US Attorney General.
Trump didn't push Gaetz at all, so that was easy.