Over the weekend, Jack Herrera had a piece in Politico that provides an interesting perspective on the Biden administration's immigration policy. It's true that illegal border crossings soared after Biden took office, but expulsions soared too, starting from his first day:
Most Americans don’t understand how many people the Biden-Harris administration has removed from the country.... In the spring of 2021, deep in the depths of the Covid-19 pandemic, I was in a camp in Tijuana, where some migrants were so hopeful the new president would let them in that they flew “BIDEN FOR PRESIDENT” flags outside their tents. But most of them who crossed got a slap from reality: They were quickly frog-marched by U.S. Border Patrol back through the deportation doorway, back to the squalid camps in cartel turf. Others got rapidly loaded onto ICE planes and flown back to Haiti, Guatemala, El Salvador, wherever. As the number of people crossing the border grew during Biden’s first two years in office, these expulsions reached a scorching pace. ICE charter flights bounced around the globe like Taylor Swift’s jet.
Naturally you want to see this in chart form. I'm here to help:
During Biden's term in office, he will have expelled, detained, or deported 6.9 million illegal immigrants. That's 73% more than Donald Trump.
This is why, despite the surge in migrants, the total population of illegal immigrants in the US has probably increased less than most people think. Out of roughly 11 million migrants (border crossers plus asylum seekers), around 7 million of them were expelled. At the same time, about 2 million illegal immigrants who are already in the country return to their homes every year. That gets us to 9 million. So net population growth has probably been on the order of 2 million or so, an increase of 18%.
That's just a guess, and it might be off on either side. Still, you might wonder why, if this is the case, Biden hasn't bragged more about it. I imagine there are two reasons. First, it's still growth of 2 million illegal immigrants compared to roughly zero during the Trump administration. Second, the Democratic base doesn't want to hear that Biden has been pretty strict about expelling illegal immigrants. It's a no-win problem.
"During Biden's term in office, he will have expelled, detained, or deported 6.9 million illegal immigrants. That's 73% more than Donald Trump."
Wait. That's unpossible! Under Biden, we've had OPEN BORDERZZZ!!!!!!1!1
And despite that 73% increase in deportations, Biden still let in about $2 million more illegals than compared to Trump. So, maybe not technically an "open" border, but pretty damn porous.
So obviously not an "open" border by any damn definition.
FIFY
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correct
the amount of "hype" and exaggeration by our pols and the press continues unabated. Businesses need immgrants to do the work many of us wouldn't do, and those businesses would PREFER legal immigrants, but if you have crops in the field and you're near harvest time, OR, you have a hotel that's gonna be at capacity for the next 120 days (and those rooms need cleaning) you send someone to a known border crossing area to recruit help.
expand temporary work VISA programs, and also increase enforcement of immigration laws as they pertain to employers.
build a wall? nope, it won't last. and that would shut off the Rio Grand to border state cattle men, and farmers.
these statistics are telling me that many more people are getting even more desperate to get into this country.
I say take them in, so long as they come here legally.
why the dollar sign?
(the looking to revoke the 13th amendment piece?)
That was an accident. Didn’t mean to add that and it was too late to edit it when I noticed it.
"And despite that 73% increase in deportations, Biden still let in about $2 million more illegals than compared to Trump" That's a bald face lie. Illegal immigrants rose 500,000 on Trumps watch. And it would have been more than million if not for covid.
Take that up with Kevin. Except for the dollar sign, the figure comes from his post.
"So, maybe not technically an "open" border,"
Yes! God-Emperor Biden failed to use his magic powers to teleport people out of this country and into some other countries! How dare he!
In seriousness, if only there were some sort of bipartisan legislation that would have supplied additional resources and tools to help address migrants at the border, and help speed up determinations of who can be let in and who should be shut out. I seem to recall such legislation was in the works, but that after a certain felon Republican presidential candidate sent out word that Republican legislators should oppose it lest Biden be perceived to have a victory, the bill fell apart.
How odd. It's almost as if Republicans are arguing in bad faith and/or place higher value on What's Good For Trump than What's Good For America.
That is not what porus means, you murderer-supporting, woman and child death monger.
Bbbut, by the spring of 2021, Biden was already president...
And?
So Biden flies 6,900,000 migrants back whence they came. Meanwhile DeSantis flies and buses migrants all over the U.S. And where are all the fingers pointing?
But he stuck it to the libs, that counts as a win in Trump world.
Back on January 9, 2024, Kevin asked:
https://jabberwocking.com/why-did-illegal-immigration-surge-after-2020/
Today he quotes:
And apart from the possible anachronism of flying those flags after the election, it suggests Kevin has his answer.
Maybe, buts its certainly more likely that it serves the sole purpose of building a story for the article. Creating narratives out of thin air is both quick and easy.
Shirley a journalist would not engage in such heinous behavior! …
"Are migrants from Latin America so tuned into US politics that they started surging to the border based solely on some vague campaign promises?" What campaign promises. And yes, delusions about american politics routinely cause drastic reactions in foreign countries. Iran held 54 US diplomats hostage an extra 6 months because Iran believed GHWBush's lies that Carter was a hardass and that Reagan would be much more liberal in his dealings with Iran. N. Vietnam, refused to negotiate peace with LBJ in 1968 because they believed Nixon's lies that he would offer than a much better peace deal. (Which in all fairness, he did, but only after 5 years of failed effort not to lose the war.)
"the Democratic base doesn't want to hear that Biden has been pretty strict about expelling illegal immigrants. It's a no-win problem."
Is it though? I think a lot of the dem base wants reasonably strict control of border crossings and almost no one wants "open borders", whatever that actually means.
It means whatever the Trump trolls say it means. Facts, reality and the English language got nothin' to do with it.
Feh.
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It is a no win situation as the numbers don't really mean anything to 99.9% of Americans. Even for those who say that immigration is the number 1 concern, they dont actually care about the numbers.
Its a bit like CRT or DEI or affirmative action or (insert other buzzword)....the details dont really matter.
For those who say immigration is their number 1 concern, the problem is that automated answering services say “press one for English, oprima dos por Español.” Biden could get rid of ten times as many (70 million) people of Latino descent - citizens and non citizens alike - and, as long as there are ANY brown faces still in the grocery store checkout lanes or outside the Home Depots or even on the Major League Soccer fields, the Mr Garrisons among us will still ask “when are we going to get rid of all the Mexicans?” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=scHCT4IIN0o
Approximately NOBODY knows the FIRST thing about immigration, eg,
-- The various types, and which are legal and which not (and that undocumented crossing without reporting is only a misdemeanor)
-- How many entries there are of the various types, and how many there have been at various times
-- The things that contribute to immigration (eg, US economy, political upheaval in other countries) and the effects they are likely to have
-- The things that immigrants and immigration (of all kinds) contribute to the economy and the country generally, and the costs that immigrants actually impose.
What Republicans know -- pretty much ALL they know -- is "immigration" equals non-White (especially Spanish-speaking non-White), and non-White people are BAD, so immigration is BAD by definition. (And also that "illegals" is a synonym for "immigrants," and that ANYONE who is Spanish-speaking probably shouldn't be allowed in the country, even if their families have been here for generations.)
Democrats generally do not think these things, but they know Republicans think them, so they're less likely to respond positively to crowing about reducing immigration rates.
IOW, "immigration" is code for racism (or lack of it), which explains almost everybody's attitude.
For most of this millennia, most illegals over stay visas which isn't a crime of any type.
For most of this millennia, there were only Native Americans living in the Lower 48 states + Alaska. And then for another large chunk of this millennia, there was no such thing as visas. Europeans just arrived at places like Ellis Island and, as long as they didn’t have a visible deformity or disease, were sent on their merry way to wherever in the country they wished to go. (Meanwhile, Asians and other non-Europeans were just turned away automatically.) Visas and work permits and passports and the like didn’t really become a thing for immigration officers to demand until post WWII.
The millennia started 24 years ago.
millennium
J.D.Vance is against divorce, and he's against daycare, but he does think you need to have lots of children,
https://popular.info/p/a-comprehensive-guide-to-jd-vances
also, he's against women being paid for work because they might experience freedom.
As a candidate he seems to be getting worse by the day.
He's the dope of destiny.
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And it’s not like people are digging up old posts on obscure message boards, these are interviews he’s done on mainstream media shows the last couple years, and when given a chance to walk them back he doubles down.
If Democrats were going to create a guy in the lab to be the perfect embodiment of the worst ideas on the fundamentalist right that turn off most normal people they wouldn’t do it as well as Vance.
Well at least he’s consistent. It’s hard to be against daycare and also for mothers leaving their breadwinner spouses and working instead outside the home. Somebody’s got to watch the dozens of children, and 99% of us can’t afford nannies.
The core challenge, as I see it, only one party is in basic agreement on undocumented migration, as a national policy.
- Most Republicans agree, zero undocumented migrants is the right number.
- I am unclear, how many undocumented migrants the majority of Democrats would agree, is the right number.
and republicans can't seem to agree on the right number of ten year olds who should be forced to bear their rapists' babies
Oh lol no. Wasn't that long ago that three states -- GA, WA, and I think MS -- passed laws targeting EMPLOYERS who hired undocumented immigrants, which in those states (as in most) meant importantly if not primarily agricultural employers -- growers. Such laws tend to be effective, because employers, unlike individuals, can't run and hide, have to keep records, etc. etc.. And in these cases they were: employers -- again especially growers -- stopped hiring undocumented immigrants. The population of undocumented immigrants in those states accordingly plunged, because jobs were much more scarce.
Problem solved, right? Republicans got what they wanted!
Lol WRONG. The crops rotted. All three states had MAJOR problems harvesting, packing, etc., and LARGE fractions of the season's crops never made it to market. The growers took MAJOR hits in revenue.
And what did they do? They -- who tend sharply Republican in their donations -- screamed bloody murder at the (Republican) legislators who passed the stupid laws, and ... poof! the laws were repealed within a year. And soon all was back to normal.
Republican businessmen and Republican legislators NEED undocumented immigrants. Don't tell me they think "zero is the right number."
(And btw enough with the insinuations about Democrats please. "Oh I just don't KNOW how much CRIME THEY think is ok." Middle-of-the-road -- as if.)
+1
Does WordPress have a thumbs up/down feature that could be included here instead of everyone writing entire comments consisting of "+1"
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(I do try to limit this sort of comment to about one a week. Hope springs eternal, etc.)
that question gets asked periodically but our host has apparently decided against it
may be a cost involved, i dunno
"Republican businessmen and Republican legislators NEED undocumented immigrants."
Whats the difference between LEGAL temporary workers with temp VISA's and illegal immigrants?
The legal temp workers are provided minimally standard housing and they go from state to state picking various fruits and vegetables as they ripen throughout the growing seasons
Republican businesses DO NOT want to provide that housing nor a decent wage so they see illegals as a way to escape that burden. THEN they donate some of that savings to republican legislators. Illegals will not squawk about lack of housing, unfair labor practices etc.
+, uh, 2
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bbleh - you fail to address my basic point.
A lack of agreement within the Democratic voting population, limits Biden (Harris et all) ability to maneuver on the topic of undocumented migration.
IF I am wrong, educate me, what is the Democratic consensus on undocumented migration?
Where is it published or which Democratic politician is discussing the broadly popular Democratic position on undocumented migration?
While I disagree with it, it seems Trump's position on undocumented migration is popular within the GOP.
(Of course you're wrong because you are a dishonorable lying sack of excrement. The democrat consensus s there should be no illegal immigrants. We should honor our refugee legal obligations (universally opposed by republicans)), solve the shortage of agriculture workers and other worker shortages by increasing legal immigration (strenuously opposed by the chamber of commerce wing of the republican party). We should deal with the issue of children brought to the US circa 2000 (When illegal immigration was much, much higher than today, contrary to lying scum like you) by legalizing those that have committed no wrong and have no connection to their homelands.
Of COURSE it's popular within the GOP. It's "we hate Browns." "Illegal" and "immigration" are just trigger-words. Meanwhile, IMMIGRATION (please note NOT using the word "illegal," which somehow propagandists just can't help but use) is a complex situation, made far worse by the Trump Administration's wholesale destruction of the asylum-processing system and the general degradation of the immigration-processing system, not to mention their vicious coarsening of the dialogue. "The" Dem position on IMMIGRATION is a set of policy papers, which -- surprise -- can't be distilled into a sound-bite.
As to ILLEGAL immigration, find me a SINGLE Dem politician, or any Dem group or institution, that supports it. Only time I've ever heard a pol asked about this they've given the obvious, slightly disgusted answer such a childish question deserves.
I swear the next thing is going to be, "Kamala (mispronounced) Harris is a child of IMMIGRANTS -- is that why she hasn't explained the Democratic position on THE BORDER?!?"
I don't recall Washington having a problem, but it it's about the employer following labor law, there's a right way to do it.
Georgia tried to hit rentiers at the same time.
You should add links to the laws and repeals (at least).
- Most Republicans agree, zero migrants from countries with brown people is the right number.
Fixed that for ya.
"- Most Republicans agree, zero undocumented migrants is the right number.
- I am unclear, how many undocumented migrants the majority of Democrats would agree, is the right number."
I am unclear on how many felony convictions in a presidential candidate the majority of Republicans would agree is the right number. Most Democrats agree, zero is the right number.
+3
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That's easy, zero. Why publicly document what worthless scum you are.
Zero. How does someone become as dishonest and dishonorable as you.
Didn’t read everyone else’s comment because “fuck off troll” is sufficient to deal with middleoftheroad’s bad faith arguments like “how many undocumented angels can stand on the head of a racist’s pin?”
Fuck off, troll.
I am unclear, how many undocumented migrants the majority of Democrats would agree, is the right number.
This Democrat thinks that, ideally, there would be zero undocumented migrants, but also that this is a really stupid question. What's important isn't how many undocumented migrants is your preferred level in the abstract. It's what trade-offs are you willing to make to lower the actual number of undocumented migrants.
Immigration enforcement isn't free. There's the actual monetary cost of the enforcement infrastructure and the taxes needed to pay for it. There's the economic costs of not having those workers in the country. There are the infringements on civil liberties that come with stricter enforcement. There are the foreign relations problems many enforcement mechanisms cost. There is the human misery caused by not allowing people to leave terrible situations in poor, usually badly run countries, especially since the United States has played a role in keeping those countries poor and badly run.
Pretending that there is a question that is both simple and meaningful that you can judge others by mostly just means that you are far more interested in scoring points rather than actually working on the problem.
I wouldn't brag about being a piece of shit either.
that's the difference between you and the don-old
That more people tried to enter who weren't qualified to isn't a shame on Biden, but it does make sorting them out more difficult.
"First, it's still growth of 2 million illegal immigrants compared to roughly zero during the Trump administration." Illegal immigrants in the US rose by 500,000 on Trump's watch, despite the massive decrease caused by covid. (Trump's claim that he closed the border is a bald faced lie. Illegal immigrant apprehension rose 120% in 2019, more than double Biden's worst rate of increase.)
...And they were counting children (Dreamers) and refugees and legal immigrants who somehow fell afoul of the law (like the Dreamer in WA state who they tried to remove on the pretense that he lived on the same block (in the US!) as gang members).
Really? And no one even cared. Keep it up.
Please join middleoftheroad in fucking yourselves with your bad faith arguments and nihilism.
Kevin, please don't mix up 'deportation' with 'removal' since 'removal' means just dumping people across the border without courts or even really full identification processing. Those removed can attempt to sneak across again immediately.
Whereas deportation is a court process that does a full investigation into their identity and then makes sure they cannot enter again. If they're caught or try to enter again, their identity will be easier to ascertain and they'll be refused.
"During Biden's term in office, he will have expelled, detained, or deported 6.9 million illegal immigrants. That's 73% more than Donald Trump."
Seems like it would have been better for everybody if he had continued the Trump policy of telling them they aren't welcome instead of encouraging them to come and then deporting lots of them.