Have you been keeping track of the brutal civil war in Sudan? No? Here are the basics:
- Central government vs. paramilitary group. Check.
- Millions forced to flee their homes. Check.
- On the brink of mass famine. Check.
- Atrocities by both sides. Check.
- Woefully insufficient aid from the US and the rest of the West. Check.
- Tens of thousands slaughtered. Check.
- Ceasefire desperately needed. Check.
- Just the latest in a long history of conflict. Check.
- Country was originally under British rule, gained independence shortly after World War II. Check.
Sound familiar? Oh wait. There's one more thing:
- Jews vs Muslims? No.
So no one cares. I imagine most college students could barely find Sudan on a map,¹ let alone figure out which side they ought to support if they cared.² I mean, probably both sides have some legitimate grievances, right? Just like every other conflict in the world except for Israel vs. Palestine, where everything is pristine and clear with no room for doubt about who the warmongers are.
¹About a thousand miles due south of Gaza, to put it in terms everyone can understand.
²In fairness, neither can I. As near as I can tell, it's a battle between two guys who were allies until a year ago, but who now both think they should be the boss instead of the other guy. There's a lot of detail behind this, but not a whole lot more nuance.
Tracking Israel's military response right now. Escalating this conflict has caused stock markets to drop, but it appears to be a light response relative to Israel's capabilities.
So why do we track some wars and not others? Because some involve nations with nukes while others, like civil wars, only pique the public's interest for a few months. No one's talking about the ongoing civil war in Myanmar either, and that's largely Buddhists vs Muslims.
The level of influence that the US has also matters. It's not like one side in Sudan is a major recipient of American military aid.
This is a pretty telling response. We only care about mass starvation and the deaths of innocents if we can somehow blame the United States for it.
That might not be all about a desire to blame, but rather an acknowledgment of responsibility. The US is nominally a democracy, so if your government is doing it you damn well should care.
Well, of course. A big reason for the hate of Israel is that they are the little Satan to America's big Satan.
https://twitter.com/LishiBaker/status/1780232954951749945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
This is also why there is much more hate for our Middle Eastern allies like Saudi Arabia than for genocidal regimes like Syria.
"Well, of course. A big reason for the hate of Israel is that they are the little Satan to America's big Satan." Sorry, but you are either an idiot or a liar. The main reason for the hate of israel is the reason that all foreign colonialists are hated when the try to exterminate the indigenous population of a region.
This is unworthy of you, Kevin. If one side in the Sudanese civil war had been a client state of the USA for decades while the other was supported by Iran, if the USA-backed side had enormously greater military capabilities than the other, if the USA-backed side held itself out as a free democracy, and if millions of Americans were at least as devoted to their side as they are to their own country, if not more so, then your comparison might have some merit. But none of those conditions applies, so your post was pointless snark.
Agreed. There are plenty of significant differences to rationally explain why genocide and/or ethnic cleansing in Gaza gains more traction in Western media. The biggest reason, only hinted at in your comment, being the general population of the democratic US has some agency and some responsibility in one conflict but not the other (at least directly).
Yeah, this wasn't one of Kevin's finest hours. Who exactly are we supposed to be giving aid to in the Sudanese civil war? Or are we just supposed to drop food and money over the country and hope it gets to the people who need it?
Agreed. Furthermore, the average college student has higher chances of identifying Sudan on a map than the congresscritters who try to shout down support for Palestinians and enact Middle East policy based on their stupid Biblical upbringing.
No Jews, no news.
Country was originally under British rule, gained independence shortly after World War II. Check.
It was known as Anglo-Egyptian Sudan until after World War II
Exactly. The people of Sudan are unworthy of concern from the kids. If they can't hate the jews, there's no emotional payoff. Of course, I don't have a dog in this fight over the "holy land ®" or Sudan. But since many are getting dragged over support or ambivalence for one group or another, it's perfectly reasonable to drag the dumbass college kids over their hypocrisy and religious hatred.
Imagine if coverage of *and financial commitment to* Israel were commensurate with that of Sudan. But no, Israel wants not just the money, but also blind support with no criticism. That's a nice deal, if they can get it.
There is also the Africa factor. Not too many people know or care about Africa. Lots of poor countries that few people have heard of or visited or have connections with, and something awful and obscure always seems to be going on there. Few strategic great power type issues going on there Maybe a touch of racism about the suffering of non-whites too?
And of course young people are hypocritical/inconsistent. It's in their nature. As us older folks were when we were younger. And as most of us frequently still are if we are being honest with ourselves.
Huh?!? But I thought Black Lives Matter!
Sadly, I think Tango is probably on the mark. Americans barely care about our own Blacks. This type of conflict is rather typical for Africa, where most communities refuse things like birth control and modernization of systems that would alleviate poverty. The economic disasters that are coming with a changing climate will create more of this conflict, people will attempt to flee and the first world nations will close their doors.
Beyond your list what is the same in both Sudan and Gaza is BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG. What is different is in Gaza the US picked a side, and US kids don't want to be support the horrors either side are committing. More than anything they are protesting the United States involvement because they are the United States and the stain of what's happening is on them as well now.
There are antisemites out there protesting, but for the vast majority what you are seeing is anti-Israel anger and not antisemitism. Very few think "the Jews" are to blame for their lack of money or international plotting or buy into the tropes about blood libel. They just think that Israel is treating Palestinians horribly with settlements and the current war, and even if you don't agree that is a rational position.
And let's not forget that many of the protests have been organized by Jewish people/organizations.
The US was involved in the separation of what is now South Sudan from Sudan. Unfortunately, that led to a civil war in South Sudan which went on for ca 5 to 7 years before finally ending in 2020. Now it's Sudan that is having a civil war.
The militia that turned against the government in Sudan was used by that same government to go after its enemies while being able to claim they were not responsible for atrocities committed by that militia.
Is it possible that college kids understand that their purportedly democratic government gives billions in unconditional military aid and unlimited diplomatic backing to the Israeli regime? A lot of times the college kids actually have a pretty clear-eyed view of politics and the olds just think politics is about rooting for one side or another in a conflict.
Remember when we gave a shit about Ukraine?
No oil, no news.
I would say that, other than the Holocaust and the fact that in 1945 only a few people knew of the word "Palestine" and those that did thought it was a town in the midwest, and that this led to the Palestinians being shoved to the side, and which then led to a bunch of oil rich countries jumping in, which eventually led to one of those (Iran) leading the charge for fundamentalist muslim rule, which then had to be countered by supporting some non-muslim country.
Well, by comparison, its not Jews v. Muslims as the driver, its that the Sudan has always been in the group of countries we don't give a crap about, and it takes a lot to move from a country we don't give a crap about to the category of one which we give a crap about. I have barely seen it (can't think of an example, really) over the last fifty years.
And Ukraine, of course, is in Europe, which we give a crap about. So there.
Iran didn't back the Palestinians until the Shah was overthrown. From 1953 to 1979 it was pro-Israel. (As was Turkey.) It was really during the Carter administration that Israel switched from being a european colonialsit vs arab dispute to a jesish islam dispute. (The Egyptian government has always hated it's devout muslim population.)
This touches on something I have been wondering.
I don't understand the level of passion by the Palestinian protesters.
I understand it from those who are themselves Palestinian, but most just seem to be native born Americans.
I understand viewing the war with horror and outrage.
But for example, I also view the Ukraine war with horror and outrage. Yet Ukraine as an issue seems to be nonexistent on college campuses.
I really do get the sense that this is like many other foreign policy questions where the actual issue is a proxy for domestic politics.
The boundary between critiques of capitalism and critiques of (((capitalism))) is, and historically has been, pretty porous.
This isn't really a factor in the Sudan.
You don't see Ukrainian related protests amongst college students because they agree with the government actions. You can;t protest what you support.
It's probably partly that the US is paying for this war, and Israel is killing a *lot* of civilians without really trying to differentiate between Hamas fighters and civilians. That's how they've managed to kill more hostages than they've rescued.
Zionists also like to point to Israel as a beacon of democracy in the Middle East, and of course Israel is a pretty flawed democracy, with 5 million residents under military occupation with no civil rights for the last 56 or so years. No one in this country is pointing to Sudan as a beacon of anything.
I suspect a lot of it is tribalism, as well. Hard right Republicans support Israel, so that it can trigger the End Times and lead to the Rapture, or some such nonsense. So, the student left has to take the other side.
I wonder if it isn't less about whether the US is "paying" for the war, since that is really just an abstraction, and more about the fact that historically Israel is viewed as "One of us" meaning a liberal secular European democracy, while Sudan is see as "One of them", a backward Third World country.