It's a miracle! Suddenly conservatives no longer believe in a national abortion ban. It should be up to each state:
Fox’s stars are rallying behind Trump’s abortion message.
The network is a pro-Trump propaganda outlet first and foremost, not an ideologically conservative one. https://t.co/7Y4QZGQEJr
— Matthew Gertz (@MattGertz) April 9, 2024
If abortion is murder, you'd think conservatives would be opposed to permitting murder in half the country. And until yesterday, they were. But the maximum leader has spoken, and anyway, haven't we always been at war with Eurasia?
"It's a miracle! Suddenly conservatives no longer believe in a national abortion ban. It should be up to each state:"
Citation required.
Are you disagreeing with Trump? Better be careful or you will end up in the camps with the rest of us.
Agreeing with Trump means keeping up to date on his positions on a subject:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trumps-many-abortion-positions-timeline-rcna146601
There's a twitter link right in the post.
D'oh. God damned Chrome keeps not loading tweets in Kevin's posts.
Trump won't answer any questions about a national ban. But everyone knows that if conservatives pass one, he'll sign it. Now they just know that they're supposed to keep quiet about their intentions until after November.
Strangely enough, and I'm sure it is a coincidence, it sounds just like their mendacious election campaign position on Social Security and Medicare.
Keeping the noise about abortion is a useful strategy for Trump to drag attention away from the fact that he is going to terminate democracy in the US, and replace it by a dictatorship like his heroes have.
Oddly enough, more people care about abortion than about the survival of democracy. Keeping the noise about abortion is a losing strategy for Trump.
Additionally, they don't need a law. When Trump becomes president, the new head of the FDA will revoke approval of mifepristone (used for a majority of non surgical abortions in the country) and the DOJ will invoke the Comstock Act to make mailing of abortion drugs illegal - presumably to interdict shipments from Mexico and Canada and elsewhere.
It's understood that IF they win the House and get a majority in the Senate, they will pass a national abortion ban (and likely contraception ban as well - AND remove the filibuster to do it) and Trump will sign it. Only a few will admit to any of this, but it's pretty clear that's the plan.
Yep. They will get rid of the filibuster in a heartbeat (probably just for this bill; they need to keep the filibuster as a weapon if Democrats regain the majority) if they have a Senate majority and it is the only obstacle to an abortion ban. Which emphasizes just how disingenuous were Democrats who justified retention of the filibuster for their use against Republican overreach. Republicans recognize no principles or norms other than raw power. The only reason the Republican Senate majority kept the filibuster intact under Drumpf was because it was irrelevant to them. Their only legislative goals was a tax cut for the rich (which passed) and ACA repeal (which failed) and both needed only a simple majority under reconciliation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/us/arizona-abortion-ban.html
Arizona’s highest court on Tuesday upheld an 1864 law that bans nearly all abortions, a decision that could have far-reaching consequences for women’s health care and election-year politics in a critical battleground state. The 1864 law, the court said in a 4-2 decision, “is now enforceable.”
But the court put its ruling on hold for the moment, and sent the matter back to a lower court to hear additional arguments about the law’s constitutionality.
well, someone didn't get the memo...
The state's AG says they're not going to enforce that statute and there's probably going to be a referendum on abortion on the ballot in Nov.
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/arizona-supreme-court-160-year-old-abortion-ban-can-enforced-rcna147053
the AG is state-level, apparently they could be prosecuted at the county level
I suspect Democratic turnout in November is going to increase in AZ. A lot.
also looks like FL will have a referendum this fall
orange julius is befouling his tighty-whities right now
When the GOP shoots itself in the foot, it empties the clip, reloads, and empties the next one. They just couldn’t stop themselves packing SCOTUS with stealth anti-abortion Justices; now the blowback just keeps coming at them.
During the Civil War, when Arizona was organized as a territory of the U.S. and the law in question was written, the population of Arizona was 9,600. It would be another 48 years before Arizona gained statehood.
Conversation between justices of the Arizona Supreme Court:
Dude 1: "Have you guys read Leviticus lately?"
Dude 2: "I'm citing it in my next opinion right now."
Are you suggesting that laws somehow age out?
How long does it take? Does this apply to all laws or just the ones you do not like? Does it also apply to the Constitution? Is it also no longer good law?
I agree with you that laws don't age out. But I throw a question back at you: do you think it is at all problematic to enforce laws on women's bodily autonomy that were passed when they did not have the vote?
No more than that 18 year olds are subject to laws passed when 18 year olds did not have the vote.
Women are descendants of men and women. To the extent that your argument holds, it is negated by the fact that their male ancestors voted.
You might have a better argument with blacks and other minorities. So much for the Thirteenth ande Fourteenth amendments, right? Or do they just not apply to those who could not vote in the 1860s? So blacks can own slaves?
And what about me? Should I be bound by laws passed before my parents immigrated to the US?
Indeed, what about all foreigners? They cannot vote. Should they be subject to any US law?
Yeah, it's gotta be great law-- given that it was enacted in 1864, this law has to have been passed by the first territorial legislature in Arizona, when it had no more than 9,600 people subject to the census, had no Senate, didn't elect a governor, and had no constitution.
Anyone who thinks a trump DOJ would hesitate for a nanosecond to enforce the Comstock laws needs to say hello to the Supreme Court of Arizona.
[posted before I could see Joseph Harbin's comment directly above]
Great minds and all that...
"The ruling today is not the outcome I would have preferred," said Doug Ducey, the former Republican governor who appointed five of seven justices on the Arizona Supreme Court.
The GOP today*: For 50 years we tried to ban abortion and now that we've gone and done it ... oops.
* Except Mike Pence and a few true believers.
Douchy would have preferred a different outcome because I think he's smart enough to know it's a huge electoral problem for his party.
Are you suggesting that laws somehow age out?
How long does it take? Does this apply to all laws or just the ones you do not like? Does it also apply to the Constitution? Is it also no longer good law?
So now when whirlwind comes a reaping, like their economic policies, they are passing the costs...
The discussion here seems to assume that there will still be a democracy after Trump is elected. If so, why would he sign bills that would harm the party's chances in the next midterm, or the next Presidential election when one of the sons (if not Trump himself) might be running? Most likely he would continue to waffle.
If he proclaims himself dictator, he would not have to worry about any effect on elections, but maybe then he would not care so much about the lunatic "Christian" faction which put him over the top. There is no reason to think that he opposes abortion himself.
It's not so easy to predict what Trump would do if it does not involve immediate monetary gain.
"The discussion here seems to assume that there will still be a democracy after Trump is elected"
Yes, it is quite bizzare that people here seem to seriously believe that Trump will rule like an ordinary president, and that votes in the congress will still be significant. He obviously isn't going to do that, and go straight to terminate democracy, including making the congress just a puppet show (cf Russia, China).
True, the Republicans in Congress just can't wait to become the Duma. The GOP already established as its platform, ‘Whatever the Dear Leader wants’.
"It's not so easy to predict what Trump would do if it does not involve immediate monetary gain."
In general I think that's right, because the money to be made is one of a very few things he really cares about. And if he has his way in a second term, he'll have no need to do away with elections completely because he and his people will just decree what the results are, the way some of his role models do. He'll still want to have them, imo, because he craves the "validation" and likes the spectacle around them.
But going into a term, there are about 4,000 political slots that need to be filled (and if he has his way with Schedule F, it'll be what, 50,000?). He doesn't know 4,000 people. He'll find them through the winger network of organizations that he'll need to keep onboard at least until he can fill those slots. In areas he doesn't really care much about-- like abortion and birth control, say-- the appointees will be able to do pretty much what they want.
That's a big set of reasons why the zealots want to stick by him, and why he wants to be sure they do stick by him-- they can only get the things they want through him, he knows that, and he'll call it loyalty but without trusting it (one reason why he always wants subordinates to fight among themselves).
I don't think he looks far enough ahead to pay attention to what Junior would need in 4 or 8 or 12 years, or whatever, assuming real elections might exist then.
I'm repeatedly reminded of being informed by talk radio some years ago that conservatives are principled; they don't act out of political self-interest like those nefarious libs.
A top Houston oil broker accused of rape in Kentucky pled down in state court to a misdemeanor charge of physical harassment.
Javier Loya, co-chief executive of Houston-based commodities brokerage OTC Global Holdings LP, was charged in August with one count of rape in the first degree and six charges of sexual assault. Those charges were dropped Monday as part of a plea agreement with Loya, who will instead pay a $100 fine to avoid serving 90 days in jail for the misdemeanor charge, Circuit Court Judge Ann Bailey Smith said. Loya is barred from contacting the victims for two years, at which point the offense will be removed from his criminal record.
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/oil-broker-charged-with-rape-to-pay-100-fine-in-plea-deal-1.2056892
Perhaps. But what does this mean for the chocolate ration? …
1) In an election where the Dems reasonably hope to tar the GOP as anti-abortion extremist and do better at the polls as a result, this is a good move by Trump to sound less extreme.
2) And from what I recall, prior to going political, Trump really was not a big opponent of abortion. I would not be surprised if he discreetly paid for a few himself. So unlike many in the GOP who authentically consider abortion murder, the exact content of the law matters less to Trump than what political ground he can gain from it.
Howard Stern once asked Trump how many abortions he has paid for, and Trump just gave a smile.
it's obvious to me that trump prefers spending time at his properties since it's easier getting professional 'companionship' delivered to those locations
if they were interested, the press could give trump the 'gary hart' treatment, but that'd jeopardize their $$$ if they wanna jump to fox
so they all pretend that's not what's going on
Elsewhere in this thread it is noted that Arizona and Florida are likely to have referenda on abortion on the ballot come November. Possibly Nevada also. It’s the turnout that will hurt the GOP.
Authoritarianism is about control by whatever means necessary and available. Criminalizing abortion has been and will continue to be an effective means to that end, until and unless it isn't, in which case ... throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.
It is no miracle. As everybody has pointed out the GOP and FOX, their captive propaganda organ, have figured out that banning abortions doesn't poll well so life won't begin at conception until after the election. FWIW, I remain convinced that they most of them don't give a rat's ass about fetuses, it's about punishing sinners. That's why many of them are willing to carve out an exception for IVF.
Exactly. The Pence crowd seems to think only 15-year-old hookers want abortions. Most medical insurance doesn't cover IVF so it is mostly middle-and-up-class white couples that have the cash for it and they don't seem to much like being called "murderers."
Of course they say one thing but would willingly yield the federal gov't power to ban abortions if they could. To trigger GOP, just push the right buttons:
Blue states should pass laws banning other states or any persons from tracking or surveilling persons entering their state for the purpose of having an abortion or assisting people seeking abortions. $1M fine or life in prison.
I like the concept, but why not make it a bounty law too? Not only criminal liability for the tracker, but civil liability to anyone who spots them. Sauce, goose, gander, and all that. (Double payout if the tracker is using a public safety vehicle and/or claims to be public safety personnel?)
Gotta admit, I was totally wrong about. this. I always thought abortion was the one issue where Evangelicals would tolerate absolutely no dissent, that if a politician waffled on abortion they would all turn on him. But now Trump gave an order to basically shut up about abortion, and (most) Evangelicals are obediently toeing the new line.
Silly me, thinking Evangelicals had a principle.
You're right about politicians, of course, but this is the God-Emperor of Mar-a-Lago, who is without sin and can do no wrong. They're proud to bend the knee to him.
Way back when English Puritans fought a war against their kings and wanted to set up a republic they had a slogan, "No king but King Jesus." Whenever I see their spiritual descendants' idolatry of this sorry lump of mortality I have to shake my head at how much lower they're willing to set their sights. Might be a fine Monty Python movie one day.
East Asia.
The fact that there is so much disagreement among Republicans is prime evidence that there should be no laws against abortion at all. Pregnant people should be allowed to do what their circumstances dictate is the right thing to do.