The University of Alabama at Birmingham health system has paused in vitro fertilization procedures following an Alabama Supreme Court decision due to fear of criminal prosecution and lawsuits, a spokeswoman said.
....“We must evaluate the potential that our patients and our physicians could be prosecuted criminally or face punitive damages for following the standard of care for IVF treatments,” [spokeswoman Hannah Echols] wrote in the email.
You can't blame UA Birmingham for this decision. With the lunatics in charge of the asylum on the Alabama Supreme Court, they hardly had a choice.
The whole state of Alabama has been lunatics in charge of the asylum since it was founded.
Should there not be a procedure to downgrade the status of a place so obviously incapable of self-governance?
A lot of people will do things of their own free will that society has a vested interest in preventing.
If there was, we’d have to apply it to a good 20-25 states. There are lots of ungovernable parts of the US nowadays.
It's one of the sh$thole states.
conservatives tell us that the definition of man and woman is what's between your legs
so... how can these be children (boys or girls according to the right) if gonads haven't developed yet?
if it's indeterminate, are they all 'trans' by definition?
ivf blastocyst age
I'm gonna make a wild guess that the point here isn't really the nature of blastocysts. (Crazy notion, I know.)
i guess when republican judges look at an acorn they see an oak tree
... and when they look at a female, they see a Handmaid.
only if they're thin, blonde, and compliant; the others get sterilized, muzzled, and deployed as martha's
Well, in vitro fertilization is a luxury. It's not as if Alabama has lost its abortion services. Oh, wait...
If a new technology emerged a few decades ago that saved millions of lives, it would be hailed as one of the great achievements of the modern world.
If a new technology emerged that created millions of lives which otherwise would never be lived, it too is a great achievement. It's hardly just a luxury. For countless families, it's a necessity.
OT
New Quinnipiac poll.
67-31 Biden is too old to serve another 4 years (it was 68-28 in Sept)
But...
49-45 voters support Biden over Trump.
And? Tacos are tastier than microwaved roast beef sandwiches. But sir this is an Arby’s. Tacos aren’t on the menu and you gotta order off the menu.
Same thing: Young Johnny Unbeatable is preferable to Biden. But sir this is the US. Johnny isn’t on the ballot.
Stop trying to make Johnny happen. He isn’t gonna be on the ballot by November.
The point of my comment above is that despite the public's qualms about Biden's age, people are going to vote for him. The panic-mongers are wrong and it's time for them to pound sand.
How many voted against FDR because of the wheelchair?
How many even knew about the wheelchair - there was a conspiracy of no photos of FDR in a wheelchair.
For the individuals to have children IVF may be a necessity. For society/humanity as a whole, no. Doesn’t diminish the achievement of IFV, nor the stupidity of Alabama’s decision.
Well said. Currently, nobody "needs to" have children. It's not like needing to have food, water and shelter. The very pricey, exclusive in vitro fertilization procedures are not a "need" -- they're a luxury.
However, these techniques could be critical in saving endangered species, of which humanity is NOT one, or even bringing back some that have gone extinct. Yeah, I guess that's a "luxury", too: not just killing anything that gets in our way and making life impossible for the rest. But if couples can spend tens of thousands on vanity babies, why can't we have a rhino or even a dodo or two?
A lot of people have a very different view of things. For people who want to have children and place a high value on the perpetuation of their family, infertility is devastatingly painful and successful fertility care an unparalleled blessing. That isn't something to disparage.
+100
Absolutely.
Well said. Currently, nobody "needs to" have children.
Your view of human “needs” seems to tbe limited to the most basic biological functions. That’s rather sad.
Moreover, you seem to believe needs aren’t really “needs” as long as someone in society is taking care of society’s needs, such as procreating. The Smiths have kids; therefore, the Joneses don’t need them. In the society I like to live in, each individual and family gets to decide how they define their needs. As long as they’re not harming anyone, it’s none of your business.
I'm not stopping the Smiths from keeping up with the Joneses, or whatever. If they've got the money, they've got the IVF. Unless they don't and you want "society" by way of taxes or something to pay?
And when did I say it was "my business"? My point has always been that it's a rich person's game. Like safe abortions used to be. And are, once again, in much of the US.
It's not nothing but the cost of IVF treatment is half (or less) than the cost of the average new car.
Maybe I missed it and owning a car is just a rich person's game, but most families in need of IVF can afford it, if that's important to them.
Then there's no problem, is there?
Except that you still put down IVF as a "luxury" apparently out of some misplaced resentment of rich people. Otherwise, no problem.
I double dog dare you to stand in front of a family with IVF children and call the kids “vanity babies”.
It’s pathetic how low people will sink when they are anonymous.
Thank you. I've been trying to keep it civil, but I resent the hell out of people (in effect) referring to my son as some kind of "luxury." It's disgusting.
+1000
Very well said. As a proud uncle of two kids that would otherwise not be here, all I can say is a big F You!, to anyone who thinks IVF is just a vanity or luxury purchase as if getting a bigger TV.
All of my parents’ grandchildren were created by IVF, spanning multiple families.
I don’t know that anybody objects to IVF for animals, since scientists have been doing that for decades too and nobody appears to be protesting zoos for it.
I also don’t know that Alabama is at the forefront of animal IVF. Or at the forefront of any effort to save any species, endangered or not.
First, what I said was this:
“For countless families, it's a necessity.”
1. That’s true.
2. You’re not disputing that point.
3. Not sure I understand your point about “society/humanity as a whole.”
You could say the same thing about countless medical procedures and treatments (surgeries, chemotherapy, insulin prescriptions, etc.). They may be necessary for the individual but not for society. We don’t call them “luxuries,” do we? No. A life may hang in the balance. There’s no reason to minimize the necessity or importance because it affects one person or one family and not society as a whole.
You might argue that what’s different about IVF is that the person to be born does not possess rights until they are born. Correct. But the would-be mother is very much alive and deserves to have her rights and desires respected, regardless of some other party’s qualms about the procedure. It’s not their business.
Sure, I place more value on an existing, living person than some theoretical person who could be conceived in the future. What's so bizarre about that?
It’s not bizarre that people fail trolley car problems. It’s bizarre when they double down when called upon it.
Okay, this is bizarre. Have a good life.
"You could say the same thing about countless medical procedures and treatments (surgeries, chemotherapy, insulin prescriptions, etc.). They may be necessary for the individual but not for society. We don’t call them “luxuries,” do we? No."
Shift from "necessity" to "luxury" noted... No, but we could, because the reason we are able to have such things is our society has become broadly "rich" enough to be able to support/afford those things. Be it IVF, or Kevin's $500,000 CaRT cancer treatment. Or, for that matter, the triple-bypass operation plus pacemaker which enabled my father to live another 15-odd years.
N years ago, when none of those things were even available, people at the time were not being deprived of a necessity.
We define things as necessities today (med procedures, telephones, email addresses, etc.) that were nonexistent at some time in the past. So what's your point?
My objection to referring to IVF as a "luxury" remains. It's ignorant, it's dismissive, and it's insulting. It also dangerous rhetoric when neo-fascists are actively working to take away access to a procedure that has given millions of people the gift of life.
I fear this lunacy is becoming an epidemic. Not just in Alabama. We are surrounded by lunatics who seem to feel that they are in charge. Time for us to fight back!
When will the lunatics on the Alabama Supreme Court and government start to demand the immediate release of all IVF embryos and start charging everyone involved with human trafficking and abuse of all these kids?
sure sounds like it since no one is feeding these kids plus they're locking them in a dark freezer without any clothing
pretty clear case of child endangerment
First thing I thought of, who is going to take care of all the fertilized eggs, the state? Pathetic state you alabamans have there.
they could be wards of the state and if not implanted after some number of years should be given to any willing uterus
when the child is born, the biological parents should pay child support
because life is sacred
notice we don't need to address any pesky property rights since the alito court has made clear that zygotes and uteri can be pressed into service for the interests of the state
While there are certainly going to be innocent victims, as there certainly are as a result of AL's draconian abortion ban, but frankly, the voters in that state are getting what they voted for.
Don't like it, then vote those right wing, Christian Nationalist, MAGA assholes out of office.
Don't want this lunacy to spread to your neck of the woods, then hold your nose and vote for that old geezer Biden and not that old bat shit crazy, lying, rapists, traitor, Cheeto faced dick head.
I know there are formal rules regarding the ordering of adjectives but I can't be bothered to look them up... However, I can't help but think you should have written "old, Cheeto faced, bat shit crazy, lying, rapist, traitor dick head."
Sure, but I tossed a couple frozen zygotes in the back seat of my car and now I can use the carpool lane.
Don't forget the best benefit. Each and every frozen zygote is a dependent on your taxes.
# of dependents? 42!
Right? Checking for a friend.
Makes sense to me! Better start applying for those 42 social security numbers!
There are much more productive ways to talk about abortion than just calling the people who are trying to ban it crazy.
1. Rhetoric of autonomy
The anti-abortion movement has been successful in reframing the control and taking over women's lives as a form of rescuing them from bad decisions. This is an important conceptual turn that blocks people from understanding the problem rationally because they see themselves as vengeful saviors when they're really being destructive.
2. Rights
The anti-abortion movement goes further than undermining the concept of women's control over their health care and says that women themselves are destroying the future of the family even in cases of horrible violence against them.
3. Racial tokenism
The anti-abortion movement tokenizes Black people who have been mistreated by the medical system to write off entire forms of medicine. They did this with vaccines too talking about the Tuskegee experiments to scare Black voters from getting the message out about coronavirus. The medical industry did mistreat people during the eugenics era and they conflate this with modern medicine. Gender essentialism (and intersex/trans genocide goals) and race essentism are forms of stereotypes. They rely on saying a woman is supposed to act this way and a race is supposed to act this way. Challenging this goes together with civil rights and anti-colonial hegemony. Attacking women won't solve poverty or inequality.
4. Intersections of feudalism
The anti-abortion movement has roots in deep cultural prejudice associated the economic rights of women. The outdated 16th century view thata a woman's place is to work for free at home and pump out babies really doesn't click with most people today and only has roots in specific areas of European history.
5. Intersections of capitalism
Although a majority of doctors today support a women's right to choose, the history of doctors belief on the topic is not in this rational alignment. Women worked as midwives and were at once a threat to male jobs, the doctors. So the profession of the doctor itself also contributed to the stigma of getting abortion for class reasons.
6. Philosophy of motherhood
The mother archetype should be reframed so that abortion is seen as curation of her life force in a way that is improving her offspring's chances to live a good life. Abortion actually spares people from being born into misery and often sexual abuse. Mothers are under attack too.
We're not talking about abortion here. Oh, and way TLDR.
it just occurred to me that the people bringing the lawsuit have lost their stored blastocysts but because they 'won' their ivf facility may very well shut down
so maybe a pyrrhic victory
Bingo! They got a lot more than they bargained for! Not only their clinic, but probably every one in the state! Too bad for Alabama women and their "basic human needs", right?
on the bright side, they'll have plenty of time to read thomas aquinas when they're sitting on death row
Maybe they’re of the “I’ve got mine so FU” philosophy that so many other Americans subscribe to? By all accounts, the couples involved didn’t know if they would ever use these embryos anyway. So perhaps they don’t mind cashing out and screwing everyone else?
It does seem to be the Republican way lately.
LAT article headline!!!
Column: Would you expect a firefighter to run into a burning building to save a frozen embryo?
"According to court records, a patient “managed to wander into the Center’s fertility clinic through an unsecured doorway. The patient then entered the cryogenic nursery and removed several embryos. The subzero temperatures at which the embryos had been stored freeze-burned the patient’s hand causing the patient to drop the embryos on the floor, killing them.”
At this point, you are probably wondering, as was I, why has this errant patient not been arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter? I mean, if a frozen embryo is a legally protected minor child, and all unborn life is sacred, then why on earth would the state of Alabama allow this accidental killer to stay on the loose?"
Perhaps it was a gravid walking womb.
Oh the irony, of people wanting to have children, being cut off from having children.
It's a de facto forced abortion.
I confess I do not care at all about IVF. If people want kids let them adopt. Hell if this spurs more adoption it might make it a good thing.
Obvious that Chief Justice Cooter doesn't know any IVF parents, especially the women. He just stuck his dick in a woodchipper.
Most fertilized eggs do not successfully implant. Any women who has a child probably had a fertilized egg that did not implant. Most women would not know that their egg was fertilized when it did not implant.
Note: IVF has gotten very good these days. They no longer have to try to place a few embryos into the womb in hopes that one will be successful.
Just a side note--wouldn't the IVF facility have, in the contract, terms that indemnify it should the embryos be lost?
Probably, but that would only be indemnity from civil law suits. Pretty sure it is also standard to destroy unused and no longer wanted embryos. Now every lost embryo is a wrongful death.
I'm sure they did. The Alabama Supreme Court just nullified them.
Whatever the legalities, they are contrived, it's the source of the contrivance that we should all be worried about. Atwood was more prescient than we could have ever thought.
It strikes me as passive-aggressive for an author to write a dystopian novel about a country not their own. Also, as a New-Englander-by-choice, Atwood picked the wrong US region for Gilead.
Let's face facts. Alabama's decision was inevitable in the wake of Alito's reasoning in Dobbs. If a fetus in the womb is potential life, so is a fetus under liquid nitrogen.
As someone pointed out elsewhere, since one of the ways the birth control pill works is to help make the lining of the uterine wall inhospitable for a fertilized egg, this ruling effectively makes the pill illegal in Alabama as well.
Lunatics huh? Not the same lunatics overseeing NY courts but yes both court are overseen by lunatics nonetheless.
I’m beginning to wonder if you have a personal axe to grind with NY courts.