Time offers the following numbers about the Israeli campaign to starve Gaza:
A December report from the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification predicted that by February, all 2 million people in Gaza would face crisis levels of acute food insecurity, with at least one in four households facing famine-like conditions.
....[Colonel Elad Goren] says Israel is supplying 28 million liters (7.4 million gallons) of water daily to Gaza, has let in 126,000 tons of aid since the war started and increased the number of trucks carrying food from around 70 a day before the war to 109 daily this week.
....But Juliette Touma, Director of Communications at the UN Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), tells TIME that the number of trucks, including commercial goods, going into Gaza has dropped from around 500 every working day since the war began, and there is not enough aid. The U.N. said that in the last week of December, food assistance only reached 8% of targeted people in need.
Needless to say, I don't believe Goren since Israel has consistently lied about this from the very beginning of the war. It's very plain that Israel and Egypt are engaged in a campaign to keep all 2 million Gazans on the brink of starvation. It's a war crime no matter what the circumstances.
This is sadly typical of Israel over the past couple of decades. Even for someone like me, who roughly believes that most of the problems in the Middle East are the fault of Israel's enemies, their response over the years has been so abhorrent that it's hard to retain any sympathy for them. Hamas or no, there's no excuse for displacing nearly the entire population of Gaza, leveling the whole place, and denying decent amounts of food, water, and medical aid to reach civilians.
I don't fault Joe Biden for siding with Israel. As usual with these things, it was a brutal Palestinian attack that started the war. But at this point he needs to do at least the bare minimum to stop Israel's vile tactics. A ceasefire may be the most popular solution on the left, but it's hardly practical since Hamas has made it clear that it won't abide by one. However, stopping military aid unless Israel allows substantially more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza? That's the bare minimum. It's past time for Biden to insist on it.
I believe Gaza has three primary crossing points: one of the three is the Rafah border crossing into Egypt. The US gives both Egypt and Israel a lot of aid.
Why should the pressure be limited to Israel ?
Because Israel, as the occupying power in Gaza controls what is allowed through the Rafah border. And because it is Israel that is bombing everything that moves in Gaza, so it is unlikely truck drivers would be willing to bring aid into Gaza without some insurance that Israeli bombers won't kill them.
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I would like to read how Egypt describes its position regarding the present crisis. Egypt is a big country. Can't they make a difference? Don't they want to?
...as pointed out in the comment before yours, Jerry, Israel has the military control over any movement inside Gaza, not Egypt.
"Egypt is a big country. Can't they make a difference? Don't they want to?"
Egypt may be a "big country," but it is an extremely poor one. GDP per capita in Egypt is ~$3700,* which makes it poorer than, say, Tuvalu or Eswatini. More relevantly, Israel has GDP per capita of ~$52000, or about 14x that of Egypt.
So (and this is just speculation on my part), even if Egypt wanted to help feed the starving people of Gaza, it really doesn't have a lot of spare resources with which to do so (particularly compared to wealthy Israel, who is the one actually doing the starving to begin with).
_______
*Oddly enough, that's about the same as that listed by the World Bank for "Palestine," although that number is likely much lower now than it was 6 months ago in actuality.
Per-capita figures don't strike me as applicable here. Egypt's overall GDP ranks 18th in the world, and is three times the GDP of Israel, and about the same as that of Saudi Arabia. The Egyptian government has ample resources to influence this situation. I suspect the real problem is political, and that Egypt has never wanted to offer any relief to Palestine that would take any pressure off of Israel.
I was quoting a GDP ranking for Egypt in Purchasing Power Parity terms, which is more applicable to human development than to power in international affairs. Sorry about the mistake.
But even Egypt's nominal GDP is ranked 38th in the world, and only about 25 percent less than Israel's. I think they would be able to bring a considerable amount of power to bear on a relief effort, if they wanted to. They don't seem to want to.
I have come to the conclusion that being "pro-Israel" is, in fact, anti-semitic.
nonsense. being pro-israel is not the same as supporting the current government or its policies, which i find as detrimental to the country's long-term interests.
I have a similar view to Kevin. No matter my support of Israel in general, if the food situation really is as bad as people have been saying, then Israel has to make some change.
Oh dear lord; Biden other things on his plate in this region of the world; his responsibilities include preventing open warfare. Yes, that's a terrible burden to have on your shoulders. One scenario is Bibi going nuclear if it's the only way to keep his sorry ass out of jail. And that's just one of many possible outcomes, several arguably worse to much, much worse.
Bibi is relatively safe from political repercussions as long as the war goes on. That's why the war will go on. I understand Bibi's mentality.
But Joe's? He has been badly played by Bibi, and as a reward, he will pay a political price. And he doesn't have the political capital to pay that price. I have a solution for him.
Since campaigning and dealing with foreign policy is obviously too much for an unpopular 81 year-old, Biden should announce that he must devote all his time to world problems and has no time to campaign. Therefore he withdraws from the presidential rat-race. Quite understandable and believable.
Talk about a win-win situation!
😂😂😂😂 No, really, too funny, and not reality based. Biden is not withdrawing from the race. Period.
Well, if you are right the last laugh will be on you. As the Economist magazine writes, the guy who is expected to beat Trump is an unpopular 81 year-old, and his chances do not look good.
Oh, I didn't mean internal dissents; I meant war between neighboring states in that region of the world.
Oh, I know what you meant.
And I take full responsibility for saying what I meant.
Since you wrote:
I am highly skeptical of your claim.
Of course Hamas only "started it" if one does not count an endless blockade of a territory keeping millions of people and poverty levels without access to clean drinking water. It is only from the Israeli perspective that things stop between the assaults on Gaza. Because the abuse of the Palestinians never stops. But since the West generally doesn't care about the Palestinians, things seem ok between Hamas attacks.
Yeah, in the twenty years before 10/7, 10x the number of Palestinians were killed by the IDF than Israelis killed by Hamas.
Gaza had an open border and no blockade in the 90's. They routinely sent suicide bombers into Israel into Israel erected a security barrier. So then Gaza started sending their suicide bombers towards Egypt and Egypt closed its border too. So then Gaza started using anything imported as a weapon to try to genocide Israel, hence the blockade. Gaza did this to themselves. They're welcome to join the civilized world at any moment, but right now their culture is little better than a death cult. Granted, most Gazans are young and weren't involved with the terrorism back then, but modern ones appear to be just as evil if not moreso.
I'd like to say something to you; unfortunately you simply don't know enough to engage me in meaningful conversation.
Hamas has actually offered several cease-fires to release hostages, which Israel has refused, Kevin.
So saying Hamas won't abide by them seems disingenuous.
No. There was an actual ceasefire. It ended because Hamas did not adhere to any of the terms to which they had initially agreed.
-- Hamas was to release at least ten hostages a day. They did that for a few days then started releasing less.
-- Hamas was to allow the Red Cross to see the hostages. They did not.
-- Hamas was to release mothers together with children. They did not.
-- Hamas was to cease hostilities during the ceasefire. The did not. The fired rockets into Israel every day.
Stop defending terrorists.
- Hamas released more than ten hostages a day, every day from Nov 24 to Nov 30 when the ceasefire ended and they released only nine. Israel meanwhile "arrested", if one wants to call indefinite detention without charges that, three times more Palestinians in the West Bank than it released. That didn't strictly violate the ceasefire agreement but did mean Hamas got less than nothing in exchange for its releases.
- Hamas indeed did not permit the Red Cross to see hostages still kept in Gaza. Maybe they had something to hide. Or maybe they were scared of Israel finding out where they were. But it was a violaton of the ceasefire agreement, yes.
- Mothers and children: Israel and Hamas approved each other's lists of persons to be released, and they were.
- To my knowledge Israel complained of only ONE day when Hamas fired rockets during the ceasefire. Journalists from Al Jazeera and Sky News (hardly a pro-Palestinian media, that one) meanwhile reported shootings by IDF soldiers at Gazans. Both sides violated the ceasefire but not significantly so.
There was a ceasefire. Why is Hamas firing ANY rockets? Any?
Indeed, even before the ceasefire, why was Hamas firing rockets? First of all, rockets aren't attacking military targets. The only purpose is to terrorize civilians and kill them. And second, Israel has Iron Dome. Which means the rockets are just being blown up. So why fire them?
And remember, the entire Hamas rocket program uses resources that COULD be use to help Palestinians in Gaza. So these people are diverting resources from the poor people of Gaza so they can build rockets that are intended to terrorize civilians in Israel but are in fact worthless even for that because Israel just shoots them down. And they even do this during a ceasefire when the promised not to do it.
Is it any wonder people don't like Hamas?
At the end of the day, I think a lot of people just have a gigantic double standard. They start with the position that Israel is an illegitimate settler-colonialist ethnostate whose founding in 1948 should be reversed, and then reason from that and end up in the place where anything that Hamas does, no matter how stupid, pointless, counter-productive, bloodthirsty, or harmful to its own people, must be excused.
Hamas is not your friend. They are not going to liberate Palestine. They are just a bunch of nihilistic idiots. And that's why we don't have a ceasefire right now.
The ceasefire is not to reward Hamas. It is to stop the killing of non-combatant Gazans who are doing the best they can to simply survive.
But, as Lon Becker correctly observes, "the West generally doesn't care about the Palestinians".
No. The West doors not think a country should be pressured to have a ceasefire while a bunch of raping, torturing, murdering terrorists are holding its citizens hostage.
Hamas can have a ceasefire today if it wants. Surrender.
No one on this blog has expressed anything even remotely similar to this sentiment. Seriously, WTF?
You really should do a minimum of research before posting publically about any serious issue.
Tru, dat. And frankly, I'm tired of doing their homework for them.
I want to second this opinion. No commenter here has portrayed Hamas as anything but a terrorist group that harms its own people. That in no way justifies the negligent and in many cases indiscriminate killing of noncombatants by the IDF, nor the withholding of food, water and medicine, nor the widespread destruction of housing. Many of us are of the opinion that Netanyahu's/Likud's conduct is creating future terrorists and militants and thereby making Israel less safe, not more so.
I think that's too clever by half.
The reason a ceasefire didn't hold is because Hamas broke it. As it did numerous previous ceasefires. If you want another ceasefire, Israel is going to need concessions from Hamas to ensure that there will be no further attacks.
And I think a lot of people-- including people here but also people out in the great wide world-- absolutely hide behind ceasefire talk to avoid actually telling Hamas they need to dismantle their warmaking capability against Israel. And my reading is that's not in good faith. Because Hamas keeps violating ceasefires, and we ought to know by now that they'll violate the next one too.
And again, notice, no actual mention of the rocket program. The rocket program is a massive theft of resources from the people of Gaza, so that Hamas can shoot tons of missiles at Israeli civilians in the hope that one gets through. There should not be a Hamas rocket program. And the fact that there is one makes ceasefires very hard to come by.
I absolutely understand the desire to stop the carnage in Gaza. But if you have a group of people who think they have a right to engage in "violent resistance" against Israel that takes the form of constant attacks against Israeli civilians, and will always violate its ceasefires to keep it up, well, it's kind of hard to put a stop to things. And however bad Netanyahu is, it's going to be hard to stop Israel from trying to dismantle Hamas.
I don't remember the Allies allowing food into Germany or Japan during WWII. Why are there special rules for when Jews are fighting a war?
Yes. I'm torn on this. (As evidenced by my comment below.) On one hand, I sympathize with the children in Gaza. (Not so much with the adults, the majority of whom still support Hamas.) But on the other hand, why should we handicap Israel against a clearly evil enemy that started this war?
"Not so much with the adults, the majority of whom still support Hamas."
Citation needed.
Yeah, and the blockade of Japan was absolutely brutal-- Operation Starvation wasn't just a cutesy nickname, the intent was for Japan to surrender or starve. The Ally powers defeated Hamas-type regimes without much concern for civilian casualties, then tut-tut when Israel follows the same playbook. Nobody has ever actually defeated an odious regime without also killing a lot of the people it rules over. Israel should ignore the criticism and do what they have to do, everybody who's going to be mad about it is already mad (and would have been no matter what the reaction was).
It's particularly galling because Japan wasn't the threat to the USA that Hamas is to Israel. Japan never had designs on conquering America, it just wanted to knock us out of the war. Hamas is explicitly exterminationist and expansionist, so represents an existential threat. Of course they're going hard.
"It's particularly galling"
I'm sure if looked, you could find all sorts of people who would find the actions of the the Allies in firebombing Dresden, nuking Japan, etc. deeply, deeply troubling. I bet you woundn't even have to look hard.
But it's also fair to say that the moral standards we might apply to distant atrocities committed by ~peer powers in a pre-modern, pre-Geneva Convention world might not be the best ones to weigh the morality of what's happening in Gaza.
After all, Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel. And, whatever Hamas is, it isn't a government, and it isn't a state. I don't say that to diminish in any way the very awful things that Hamas carried out in October, but to highlight the very important distinction between extremely wealthy Israel and the extremely poor and stateless people of Gaza.
I'd offer that, rather than comparisons to WWII, the situation in Gaza looks a lot more like a civil war. Israel endeavors to control Gaza (for reasons justifiable or no) but does not want Gaza (or at least its people) to be part of Israel. As an outsider, that looks to me a whole lot less like a war between states and more like an internal conflict along ethnic and racial lines.
It's ugly. Civilians are being murdered, poor people are starving en masse, and it's fatuous to argue that the situation should not be criticized because the Axis and Allies bombed each others cities eight decades ago.
I find all these appeals to "but it was okay in WW2" to be very disturbing. The Geneva Conventions and the modern laws of war were all derived to avoid what until a few months ago we all agreed were inexcusable atrocoties.
Exactly.
Who all agreed that the Western Allies committed inexcusable atrocities in WWII?
Okay, fine. Calling the intentional targeting of large numbers of civilians an atrocity is a value judgement that perhaps you don't share. So let's go with the legal term "war crime".
OK... so who all agreed that Allied strategic bombing in WWII was a war crime?
As the present day laws of war were not written and signed on to at the time, there was legally no crime. However, today it is simply not a serious question.
https://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/picture-16.jpg?w=700&h=421
Um...
Hamas killed proportionately far more Israelis on Oct 7 than All Qaeda killed on 9/11 and threatens to repeat the process. Large numbers settlements near Gaza are still evacuated. Looks like a pretty severe if not existential threat to me. No government can accept this kind of threat to its people. The US did not.
In addition, Hamas still holds Israeli hostages. Are you seriously advocating that Israel stop fighting while Hangar still holds it's people?!?
You claim Hamas is not a government. They actually are y the government of Gaza. This is as silly as claiming the CPC is not the government of China.
The only murders of civilians in this conflict that I am aware of were done by Hamas. If you have evidence of Israelis murdering Gazans please provide it.
Finally, why is it fatuous to ask why the Israelis are held to different standards than the US and its allies when fighting a major war?
The IDF has killed proportionately 100 times as many Gazans as Hamas killed Israelis on October 7:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-population-intl/index.html#:~:text=The%20IDF%20began%20its%20operation,and%20kidnapped%20some%20200%20others.
How many is enough?
Shrug... enough is the number required to rescue the hostages and inflict enough damage on Hamas to make them surrender.
Any deliberate killing of civilians in retaliation for Hamas attacks is a war crime - 0 is the only enough.
But there is no specific limit on how many civilians may be killed in attacks that target legitimate military objectives.
It is the obligation of Hamas, as the government of Gaza, to keep fighters and military infrastructure separate from civilians. They choose not to. The blood of dead civilians is therefore on Hamas's hands. Rewarding war criminals by letting them protect military targets with human shields just incents further war crimes and increases the civilian toll of wars.
Thanks for clearly revealing your utter lack of humanity, which thus far we could only devine by reading between the lines of your talking points.
"Looks like a pretty severe if not existential threat to me. No government can accept this kind of threat to its people. The US did not."
I don't think you know what existential means. And the US's reaction to 9-11 was apallingly brutal, stupid, pointless, and destructive--that's not a point in favor of Israel's actions here.
"why is it fatuous to ask why the Israelis are held to different standards than the US and its allies when fighting a major war?"
For all the reasons I explained: atrocities committed during WWII amongst peer powers* are not the standard for atrocities committed in 2024 by a powerful nation against a stateless people.
____
* And for chrissakes, I doubt that even you really think that WWII is some sort of appropriate benchmark: ask yourself, would it be ok if a nation today dropped a nuke on a city (or two nukes on two cities) on the theory that it's ok if it's war?
Existential?? This is such an unserious argument.
I don't recall the US blockading, starving, and displacing nearly the entire population of Afganistan after 9/11.
Actually, despite the title, Operation Starvation was not most effective due to reduction in food imports -- Japan imported 20% of its food, but 90% of its petroleum and 88% of its iron needs ( https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1959/november/japans-nightmare-mine-blockade ), essential raw materials for continuing the war. The operation also disrupted supplies to Japanese occupying forces on the Asian mainland and islands.
The rules concerning the protection of noncombatants and civilian infrastructure in armed conflicts apply to all militaries; read the damn international conventions.
I don't remember the Allies allowing food into Germany or Japan during WWII. Why are there special rules for when Jews are fighting a war?
Gaza is defacto Israeli territory—a colony, or, if you like, an imperial possession. It's against international law to starve your own people.
The Nazis allowed no food into the Warsaw Ghetto after the start of the uprising. Israeli kapos follow Nazi policies.
I'm 100% pro-Israel but I mostly agree with Kevin on this. I don't think we should cut off aid completely but it's time to reduce it if Israel doesn't allow in more humanitarian aid to civilians.
Is Biden hoping Bibi implodes domestically as a way out?
While it's nice to see you advocate for humanitarian aid, it was a bit disheartening to see this line.
"As usual with these things, it was a brutal Palestinian attack that started the war."
Equating Hamas with all Palestinians is very much a zionist take on the conflict. Makes it easier to treat all Palestinians as terrorists. Hamas didn't have broad support (less half the votes) and in fact was supported by Israel as a way to divide Palestinian leadership.
There's not much daylight between the Hamas and the average Palestinian. 72% of Palestinian's support the 10/7 attack. I think the average Palestinian would support the genocide of Jews.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
A few things from the actual details of the poll, which was run well after the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.
"Despite the increase in its popularity, the majority in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip does not support Hamas."
" It is clear from the findings that believing in the “correctness” of Hamas' decision does not mean support for all acts that might have been committed by Hamas fighters on October 7. The overwhelming majority of respondents say that they have not seen videos from international or social media showing atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians that day, such as the killing of women and children in their homes. Indeed, more than 90% believe that Hamas fighters did not commit the atrocities contained in these videos."
+1
More to Mr. Drum’s point (poll published Dec. 13):
—Only 44% of Gazans say they have enough food and water for a day or two and 56% say they do not.
—When they need food or water, only one third of Gazans say they can reach a place where they can have access to assistance while two thirds say they cannot.
—Almost two thirds (64%) of Gazan respondents say a member of their family have been killed or injured during the current war in Gaza; 36% say none of their family members have been killed or injured.
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/961
Also, a majority believe that the Oct. 7 attack came in response to “settler attacks on Al-Aqsa Mosque and West Bank residents, and for the release of Palestinian prisoners.” ….
I would never support what Hamas did on Oct 7 or Israel’s casual bombimg of civilians, but we must understand that the “war” has been going on waaaay before we started paying attention to it. ( But we know that, don’t we?)
And by the way, I’ve seen interviews with Christian residents on the West Bank who have been attacked by the Israeli settlers while armed soldiers stood close by to make sure the Christians didn’t fight back. The Israeli settlers are attacking, basically, any non-Jew.
I don’t see how a poll that asks whether the Palestinians should fight back should have a surprising result.
And look at how support was equated: if I'm reading this correctly, support for Hamas was three times what it was before 10.07. The only possible conclusion is that a minority of Palestions supported Hamas. At best. Going by the given numbers, I peg it as somewhere in the range of 25 to 35 percent.
People only ever raise this objection as special pleading for Palestinians. When we say, "Japan bombed Pearl Harbor" most Japanese people had nothing to do with it. "America dropped two atomic bombs on Japan" despite the overwhelming majority of Americans not even knowing a nuclear bomb was under development. "Egypt closes the Rafah Crossing" despite most Egyptians having no input on the decision, etc. This war was started by a Palestinian attack, notwithstanding that not all Palestinians are terrorists (although it appears most are, hence the 72% support for October 7).
Japan was a nation state. America was a nation state. Egypt is a nation state. Palestine is a territory under occupation. This makes such a "special pleading" much more relevant.
Even so, I would not support the collective punishment of any of those nation's civilian populations for any act no matter how hienous perpetrated by their government or army.
So the Allies were wrong to wage war against Germany and Japan which, of course, imposed collective punishment on the populations of both countries?
It is amazing how fast the left has morphed into Nazi and Imperial Japanese irredentists.
Hamas is the government of Gaza Just as much as the Nazis were the government of Germany.
Do not feed the fabricator of straw men.
Indeed. He has a vast acerage he is harvesting from.
I said "I would not support the collective punishment of any of those nation's civilian populations" and he reads "the Allies were wrong to wage war against Germany and Japan"
There needs to be a corollary to "damning with faint praise" for revealing the hollowness of your own poistion by putting forth ludicrous arguments.
Are you suggesting that the Allied war against Germany and Japan did not (unavoidably) collectively punish civilians?
How do you support the Allies in WWII without supporting the collective punishment of German and Japanese civilians? The two are joined at the hip.
"Hamas is the government of Gaza Just as much as the Nazis were the government of Germany."
Well, except Gaza is not a state, and the last time anybody in Gaza got to vote for their leaders was a generation ago.
I'm not sure the relevance of Gaza not being a state - Hamas is the government there.
Why do you think it matters when the people there last voted? Imperial Japan was not a democracy. Does that somehow make the Allied war against Imperial Japan illegitimate?
The international conventions require protection of noncombatants. Answering a survey question doesn't make one a combatant.
"not all Palestinians are terrorists (although it appears most are,"
Actually, given the population's median age, "it appears most" Palestinians are _children_.
Agree that Israel's actions at this point are reprehensible. BUT, my sense is that the political situation both globally and within the US are tying Biden's hands much more than is immediately visible. I think Biden cannot afford a clear break with Netanyahu given the constraints of this coming election season, and the danger of a wider conflict involving Iran and Hezbollah.
What I'd like to see is more international pressure, especially in Western Europe vs. Netanyahu. And more support for the Israeli opposition.
I don't think Biden in any way wants a clear break with Israel (and, by default, Netanyahu). Like me and most people I know, I think he sees this as a battel between good and evil. That said, yes, I'm sure he'd rather have Bibi be replaced and would like to influence Israel to let in more humanitarian aid.
The danger of a wider conflict is, in the most transparent and obvious way, derived from the continuing atrocity of Isreal's assault. The more Biden shields Isreal from any accountability and materially supports this assault, the more likely it is this will spread.
So you think we should be interfering in Israel's internal politics and trying to cause problems in the current unity government?
Is it OK of they also interfere in our upcoming election?
Bibi already has interfered in US politics, dimwit.
You mean by addressing Congress at the request of Congress?
Hate to break it to you, but making a speech at the invitation of one of the co-equal branches of our government is not interfering in our politics.
Ethnic cleansing (without actually using the specific words) of Gaza is the openly stated goal of many in the Israeli government. It is phrased as "the solution is for other countries to each take 25,000 Palestinian refugees".
I have to say, though, that if a terrorist group had been launching missiles from Mexico into El Paso and San Antonio for years, the US would have given Mexico the same treatment long ago.
"I have to say, though, that if a terrorist group had been launching missiles from Mexico into El Paso and San Antonio for years, the US would have given Mexico the same treatment long ago."
Well, we did steal a large chunk of Mexico's land, so they would have had some justification for lobbing those missiles. But we haven't been denying them food, water, or medical supplies for decades; we haven't been making most Mexicans pass through checkpoints to get to work every day; and we do recognize their sovereignty as a nation. So most Mexicans just aren't motivated to push the Launch button.
Gaza had not been denied food, water, or medical supplies. In fact, Israel supplied much of their water.
Israel did restrict building materials. Given how they were used, that seems very reasonable.
Gazans only need to pass through check points to get to work if they work in Israel. Are you suggesting that Mexico is justified in attacking the US unless we eliminate immigration formalities at the US border?
"Gaza had not been denied food, water, or medical supplies"
This is false, and likely was delibrately offered. There are even well known quotes from Isreali government officials about their intention to keep Gazans on "a diet".
That is during the current war, not pre-Oct 7
The phrase "keep Gaza on a diet" dates from the Sharon years, 2001-2006. Malnutrition especially among children has been widespread ever since.
Criminal gangs from Mexico and Central America have been killing Americans on and off for years. We have not responded by dropping cluster bombs on Mexico City. We also haven't tried to solidify the political power of those gangs in the hope it will let us eventually annex more of Mexico. Instead we view it as a matter for policing (in Mexico and the US).
I'm with Kevin here Israel has shown itself to be a total bully and now it wants to be up with Putin by starving and elimination the population.
Of course Egypt doesn't wish more population. The Palestinians simply want their land to live and survive on. Now they have nothing. Thanks to Bibi.
Israel has become inhumane. Time to pull the plug on Israel.
No, they don't just "simply want their land". They want to exterminate all the Jews and take the land they are on.
Please. Hamas has 20,000 fighters. There are 5,000,000 Palestinians. Stop conflating the two.
... take the land they are on and all the natural gas off the shore of Gaza
google: gaza natural gas
Even if every Palestinian wanted every Israeli dead, it's not a good justification for killing civilians via bombing or starving them to death. Not only is that a war crime, it's entirely unnecessary, because the Palestinians would never be able to accomplish it.
Do you look at the Dakota War and think the only issue with that war was that the US government didn't kill enough Dakota?
"They want to exterminate all the Jews "
You are doing three disingenuous thigs here.
1. Substituting Hamas in for Palestinians in general.
2. Refering to Hamas' original charter which ignores the update in 2017 that accepts the existence of the state of Isreal
3. Conflating the dissolution of Isreal in the Middle East with "extermination of the Jews".
Reasonable positions do not require fallacious arguments.
"Israel has become inhumane."
This seems like a no-brainer to me. But Israel has an ace up its sleeve -- the anti-Semitic accusation card.
Yes, such unreasonable bullies!
I mean how can they insist on rescuing their hostages? After all, they are just having a nice vacation with their raping, torturing, murdering captors.
The IDF has managed to rescue one (1) hostage. They killed three Israelis who had escaped their captors. Hamas released 105 in negotiated exchanges, and four others were released unilaterally. So, should Israel pursue further negotiations, or further military actions, to secure the release of hostages?
Taking civilian hostages is wrong in all circumstances. That said, what is the basis for your accusation of torture?
Your headline should read, "Biden needs to be willing to stop aid to Israel"
I just don't think he's willing to go there, though. The absence of support creates the risk of an opportunist taking advantage of the situation to turn Israel against the US. It also comes with huge political risks domestically, as indicated by Gallup's latest poll. Only 36% of Americans (40% of Democrats) say that US is giving too much support to Israel.
During the 1982 bombing of West Beirut, Reagan phoned Israeli PM Begin and said the holocaust - yes, that word - should stop. An hour later the bombings had stopped. Biden has plenty of leverage.
Would you apply this same logic to WW2? That US should have provided food aid to JP/DE to prevent widespread deprevation?
Or really any other war? Embargoes and blockades are well established means of warfare. The failure of Hamas to CARE that they are losing and millions of citizens are at risk is not a reason to stop fighting.
Indeed it's worth considering that western sentiment like this is KEEPING Hamas in the fight. Their only out is Western pressure preventing Israel from outright winning.
We should all ask ourselves: "What would Genghis Khan do?"
What about "What would Roosevelt, Truman, and Churchill do?"
"Needless to say, I don't believe Goren since Israel has consistently lied about this from the very beginning of the war. It's very plain that Israel and Egypt are engaged in a campaign to keep all 2 million Gazans on the brink of starvation. It's a war crime no matter what the circumstances.
This is sadly typical of Israel over the past couple of decades."
What did I miss? Where is this extensive catalogue of if lies documented? What are these specific lies? What is the evidence that they are lies?
You could start with decapitated babies..?
Really don't agree with giving Egypt equal billing on this. Isreal maintains control of what goes through that crossing, granted with Egytian cooperation. You can do some easy research on why Egypt cooperates. But it is beyond the pale to insinuate that Egypt has any part, or would want to, in starving 2 million Palestinians.
And any people who are inclined to drink IDF cool-aid can start with this list: https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/17wetwa/an_incomplete_list_of_israeli_lies/ (I did not vet every link, I would like to know if there is any false information in there)
But beyond the specifics, can any lie be more insulting than some of the Isreali official statements saying Isreal is abiding by international law? They openly stated they would, and then did, cut off food, water, fuel, electricity to an entire population. That is Trump level, don't believe your own eyes, piss on your leg and say it's raining, in your face lying.
Thanks for the link. As someone who grew up educated on why Zionism is so important to most Jews and still supports the right of Jews to have a state where they do, these are useful to see.
Haven't looked in depth at all of them, but looking at the beheaded babies claim (first link). The link text is "Israel Lying About Beheaded Babies", the article's name is "How the media lied about beheaded babies to ‘justify’ Israeli war crimes". And a cursory read of the article seems to suggest that this is a media problem and only partially and Israel problem.
The claim was first made by a (possibly emotional) Israeli media outlet (the article does not say when the claim was first made) and it spread like wildfire including by some Israeli officials that likely took it as true without verifying. The only reason this seems debunked seems to be because the IDF itself has said that they cannot confirm something like that happened.
When unconfirmed reports are made and spread like crazy by the media, it is hardly proof that the Israeli or Palestinian government entities are in the habit of lying.
One thing that bothers me about the link is that it feels propagandaish, by for example titling it: "An Incomplete List of Israeli Lies" It seems to me that if there were many more occasions of purportedly verified Israeli lying, these passionate anti-Israel reddit users would certainly simply post those on that page.
I may be biased but it is hard to be convinced of anything by the second link on the actress pretending to be a medical professional at Al Shifa. This seems to be a claim debunked by personnel at the hospital saying that the person does not work there and the fact that the video is clearly staged.
The linked article is from Doha News (hardly an impartial observer) and states that:
`The video, shared by an account claiming to be a “part time intelligence and news aggregator”, shows the alleged nurse at Al Shifa hospital speaking out against Hamas.`
Again, I guess it is possible that the Israeli government put this fake video out there but this is not an official Israeli government outlet. Hard to do more research without knowing who actually put this out there. I remind everyone that some Palestinians and some Israeli (and non-Israeli Jews) are passionate about the conflict and some are willing to do bad things to smear the other side.
Again discouraging that the same article posts about a purported post by the Israeli embassy to the US posting fake subtitles on a video of a woman speaking Arabic. I quit X a long time ago, but going to the official X account of the Israeli embassy to the USA and looking around I can't find the post and all that is provided by the article is a picture of it. An article denouncing disinformation, probably spreading disinformation claiming that Israel is caught lying.
Third link is clearest evidence of an actual Israeli lie. They walk around the basement of the hospital pointing at what they think is evidence that hostages were kept there. Then they point at a calendar that supposedly has watch logs of Hamas operatives watching the hostages, but it turns out to be just a calendar. We can definitely mark this one as an Israeli lie.
Disease is poised to become an even deadlier second front in Israel’s assault on the besieged Strip
I'd like to juxtapose these exerpts:
"According to public health scholar Barry Levy, indirect health-related deaths—which are seldom discussed when reporting the death toll of a war—can outnumber direct deaths by more than 15 to 1."
and
"In October, Likud lawmaker Tally Gotliv argued in front of the Knesset that “hunger and thirst among the Gazan population” would help Israel’s war efforts, enabling the recruitment of desperate collaborators for intelligence purposes. Retired Israeli general Giora Eiland, who was formerly head of the Israeli National Security Council and is now an official wartime advisor to Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, has likewise asserted that Israel “must not be deterred” by the international community’s warnings about a humanitarian disaster in Gaza because “severe epidemics in the southern Strip will hasten our victory.”
For those of us that follow European news it appears, unfortunately, that the lack of food is a deliberate move by the Israelis. The motto "Do not waste a good crisis" is taken at hart by the right. The insidious plan is to force Palestinian out of Gaza and replace them by colons. You may have missed the news that some Ministers are discussing with Congo other countries on Gaza ‘voluntary migration’ plan. So transparent.
Sources?
We are obligated by being signatories to the Genocide Treaty that we will "undertake to prevent and to punish" genocide.
And complicity in genocide is punishable under the Treaty.
I'm not jewish / israeli / muslim / palestinian so my personal interest in this conflict is quite limited. I really don't think well of any of the parties. All have complicity. They put their own children at risk and many have suffered injury and death as a result of their hatred for each other.
Support for an Israeli government hostile to US interests have come back to bite him. I expect that Biden has got to go all in and let the Israelis do their ethnic cleansing and finish the job. I don't think he will get squeamish since he hasn't already. Gaza will be unable to support a population for years to come. Leaving people there will eventually be seen as more cruel than moving them.
Israel is not prosecuting a war on Hamas. It is prosecuting a war on Gaza. Everyone living there has been defined as the enemy, explicitly by some government ministers like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir. They bomb places they declared safe and encouraged people to evacuate to. IDF soldiers are firing so indiscriminately that they killed some of their own hostages by simply ignoring a white flag and SOS spelled out on the ground. This is scraping the bottom, even for Israel. Netanyahu's team is no better than Hamas morally and is at least as stupid.