Good ol' Democrats:
Donald Trump extorted Ukraine, tried to violently overturn the 2020 election, pardoned every crony he could dig up, and has nominated for cabinet-level positions Matt Gaetz, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr., and Kash Patel.
The only one of these that has generated more than token opposition from Republicans is Matt Gaetz, and that's only because everyone hates his guts. It has nothing to do with how he would have run the Justice Department.
But Joe Biden pardons his only surviving son—very plausibly because he was the target of naked partisan attacks and Biden was afraid of what might continue to happen with folks like Pam Bondi and Kash Patel in charge of law enforcement—and Democrats go cowering in the corner.
And sure, maybe that's the "right" thing to do. On the other hand, sometimes it takes an ex-Republican like John Dean to understand how to fight back against Republicans:
“Let Biden give a safe harbor for some of his people who’ve done nothing but follow the process,” Dean said. “He could do it with specific people like Jack Smith and company. He could do it with [Robert] Mueller and company. He could do it with blanket pardons, where you would have a class of people who are just engaging in political behavior, and if Trump went after them, they could say: Hey, this isn’t subject to criminal investigation.”
I don't know if I'm agreeing with Dean or just venting. But sometimes the hack gap becomes a full-on abyss and it's a little hard to care about some earnest liberal definition of what's right.
Cowards!
And this isn't even a hard fight to pick and it's not like Trump wasn't already going to issue 100's of pardons if he wanted to. The moral high ground doesn't seem to be working very well.
On this I agree with Joe.
So do I!
I just love Joe sticking it to the Democrats who are going to have to deal with this shit storm in 18 months as the 2026 elections ramp up!
In fact, I wonder if this isn't one last "Fuck You" to the party that defenestrated him four months ago.
"Guys, none of this would be necessary if you had let me run. I would have beaten Orange Mussolini like a rug and then I could have made sure nothing too bad happened to Hunter or pardoned him at the end of my term when it wouldn't really matter. Instead you pushed me out for a cackling idiot who I had to pick as VP because she was a black woman. She lost to the worst candidate the Republicans have nominated since Goldwater! Well, FUCK YOU. I'm looking out for my family and in 2026 and 2028 you can argue that Democrats aren't corrupt until you are blue in the face. NOT MY FUCKING PROBLEM! "
DELICIOUS!
I almost hope that you get the help that you so desperately need.
It hurts because you are afraid it is true.
Weird
whatever else they are, the troll has clearly never been a parent.
if they had they would gbe a little more understanding of the overall dynamic in play here. once trump started tossing out names over in justice like gaetz and patel biden understood his son to be in mortal danger so he did what he could to remove him from that danger.
any parent would get that.
any semi-normal human with a dollop of empathy should be able to understand that.
anyone else can go piss up a rope, you've outed yourself as a miserable excuse for a human.
‘miserable excuse for a human’
Not that MF ever left any doubt about that.
Please don't feed the troll. It leaves its droppings to get attention. Starve the troll.
If Biden had stayed in the race and lost you would be bitching about how bad a candidate he was. Your little fantasy about what motivates Biden is as sad and pathetic as usual. Speaking of corruption, he hasn't even been sworn in and already the people around him have been caught gritting. I don't think you should celebrate any victories in the 2026 elections quite yet. Trump hasn't had the opportunity to fuck things up. But he's already walking back his tarrif threats with lame theatrics. I wonder when the idiots who voted for him are going to realize they voted for a phoney.
Never. They believe he has their interests at heart, though he has spent much of his life swindling, stiffing and lying to people like them.
I'm so disappointed in you, Kevin. The hypocrisy of Democrats is astounding. We should all care about anyone who is breaking the law, and there is plenty of evidence that Hunter Biden more than took advantage of his position.
Certainly! Let's throw in jail everyone who failed to pay enough taxes and lied on a gun application. But what will we do when a third of Republican politicians are in jail?
As for "taking advantage of his position," it's not actually illegal to take a job or sell artwork based on other people's assumption of potential corruptibility. Do we make that a crime? How sad will all the legislators be when their kids and spouses get thrown in jail for getting management jobs in major companies or are appointed to corporate boards.
LOL! Concerned troll is concerned.
It is ASTOUNDING!! that someone wouldn't want to prosecute a guy for the non-crime of taking advantage of his position!
ASTOUNDING!!!
can't make up this level of stupid.
Like any other politician or relative of one of both parties. The only reason it matters is because Republicans are hypocrites.
We dems are all so self righteous! Joe did right as far as I’m concerned and hope he does more!
One would have to be a fool to trust the Trump department of justice to do the right thing. If one doesn't trust them, the wise thing to do is act accordingly.
I suspect the at the time apparently sure ascent of K$h Patel to the FBI and Pam Bondi to the cabinet department formerly known as "Justice" might have pushed the decision to pardon...
Remember how angry Democrats were when they learned that General Mark Milley had taken steps to try and avert a potential nuclear strike and WW III by contacting China on his own, and speaking to the Joint Chiefs prior to January 6? He overstepped his authority!!!
Regardless of the too possible consequences had he not.
Biden will probably need to blanket pardon all the generals, everyone at CDC and Justice, every Democratic office holder, Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, all the sex workers in the country, and the political reporters at NYT and WaPo.
Alas, that would have to be issued in perpetuity.
Why would Biden need to pardon political reporters at the NYT and WaPo? I'd say they helped Trump far more than Democrats for, oh, at least the last 9 years of Trump being in politics.
I dont think it really matters to him. It makes for great theater for his cult to punish the "fake media" and enemy of the people.
In this case, they had an agreement that comported with this type of crime--then a judge threw it out. I'm pretty sure Hunter paid the taxes and fines that were due, and the agreement avoided jail time so.....the pardon basically just made the gov't keep their word.
Yes. Somehow, in all the noise and outrage, this little thing keeps getting forgotten.
The judge didn't throw it out. Weiss caved to partisan pressure and withdrew it. Not sure this would hold up on appeal. Seems not unlike the Smollett case.
+1
The fact that Weiss may not have wanted to seem lenient as Congressional committees damped u investigations into the supposed "Biden crime family" as they never fudge of the Drumpf/Kushner crime families seeks time have gotten lost, along with the fact tgsr taxes ^ finest had been paid. A number of knowledgeable people stated that few offenders have been singled out first the subsequent decision to renege kn the plea deal. And maybe Weiswas determined to not be accused of leniency due to his previous acquaintance with Hinter Biden.
Wish that Joe hadn't made the promise. thinking the plea deal would work, but circumstances were obviously changed when trump indicated that he'd pursue the case - or more - in his second reign. That would bankrupt the Biden family.
I thought maybe, just maybe Democrats had learned that their nice guy routine had run its course and they were going to start fighting back. But no, no, no, never.
I mean I have absolutely NO doubts that pardoning HIS SON who was the object of a political witch hunt was the right thing for Joe Biden to do. Anyone who has any concerns about this at all (and that includes Kevin) needs to check himself.
Pardon everyone you think Trump might conceivably go after. Good lord. What country do these people think we are living in?
A friend of mine, an officer of the court and very progressive, when i told her that I agreed with Biden, she said “me too. Fuck-em all”. She got that right. What a bunch of whiners.
+100. Fuck them all to hell.
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
+1
I don't think anything in the past month has made me more angry than Democrats acting like a bunch fussy little church lady scolds while the country is about to turn into the next Hungary. Now I pretty much have no hope.
Perhaps we ought to be taking names and considering primarying those who continue to wimp out against the Republican steamroller. As far as we know, there will be an election in 2026.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hungary wants to stay part of the EU, which limits how far Orban can go.
Trump doesn't have such limitation, so it is going to be much worst than Hungary (unless he dies shortly).
I think it's OK for Democrats to complain. On balance Joe is right, but it's a shame he had to do it.
It's not ok for Republicans to complain. That's bullshit.
the parties are alike in that neither has the courage of their convictions. they differ in that Republicans have no convictions and Democrats have no courage. I said that.
The Republicans would have had a number of convictions if Trump had lost.
Love that line. I don't think I've heard it so I'll attribute it to you.
Dick Durbin will likely write a strongly worded letter to Joe Biden over this.
It's just pathetic. R's never do anything remotely like this. With friends like the Dems, democracy doesn't need enemies.
But it's not just the reaction of Dems that is so predictably familiar. Biden did the right thing in the wrong way. This should have been done late on New Years Eve, or late on Jan 19. And not just Hunter alone, but Hunter and a hundred other people who may need a pardon to stave off a rouge Justice Dept. Good Lord, pick a slow news day, and throw up a bunch of chafe.
I hope this is just the start of a Biden scorched-earth policy. He has nothing to lose in leaving Trump an unrecoverable mess. He will get blamed regardless so why not go out with all weapons blazing.
You do know Biden is a Democrat?
I do but I'm hoping that he says, "Why not Dark Brandon?" and digs Donny a deep, Deep hole to climb out of.
Maybe they should consult Susan Collins and see how she handles her discomfort. She seems to handle it pretty well.
+1
Democrats support Biden's pardon of someone who helped Trump get re-elected by dissuading him from promptly exiting the presidential race. Hunter is not merely a wayward son. He's also an agent that helped usher in whatever the hell it is we are about to experience.
I can see accepting the pardon. But celebrating? That's foolish.
I think it's two forms of selfishness colliding:
(1) My and other Democrats' selfishness: it would be better for Democrats if the president hadn't pardoned his son. I frankly and perhaps callously care more about my own priorities (advancing the fortunes of the Democratic Party) than about the political persecution of Hunter Biden.
(2) The president's selfishness: he cares more about his family than he does about the political prospects of the Democratic Party.
Others' mileage will vary, sure, but on the sheer merits, I do think the cause for a pardon is pretty solid in this case. But obviously the optics are bad. And I continue to think one glaring problem at the heart of our constitutional order is the placement of the Department of Justice in the executive branch. It would be better to make it a quasi-independent non-partisan government office, perhaps supervised and directed by commissioners appointed by all three branches.
The optics are horrible. Dems are just bad at politics.
The optics are trifling.
We know Republicans do not care about breaking norms. That works for them because they are the ones breaking the norms.
They will suddenly care when Democrats play just as ruthlessly as they do, they lose their competitive advantage. Then and only then they might come to the table to rebuild some of what they tore down.
'Democrats are bad at politics' doesn't apply to this piddling pardon. It very much applies to Biden's impending failure to issue a very large number of blanket pardons to various people Trump might go after. That would be good politics.
Yes.
And the optics of trump's past pardons?!
His future ones are likely going to be worse - as are his targeted "investigations" & obvious foms of promised retribution for not being loyal to trump - not for any actual crime.
No one is going to care about this in 2 weeks.
There's a third path here:
Pardoning his son, in the face of Trump, is human, humane, and something every parent can identify with.
I do not think it a black mark against the Dems, I think it's the kind of humane thing that will save them.
The optics are bad, and in a few days, no one will care.
Actually, I think it's a good move in that Republicans howled for prosecuting Hunter because they had nothing on Joe. Now Trump's campaign of retribution will have to go after Joe -- unless they've got nothing ....
Biden should self-pardon. Not because he has done something, because he hasn't.
The politics of the moment demand Democrats play just as hard as Republicans and show they will no longer fight with one hand tied behind their back.
That will show Trump and Republicans tearing it all down has a price. That will show voters the damage that has alredy been done and the danger we are in. Democrats playing by rules that no longer exist ironically reassures people the cancer has not yet metastisized. That is a lie. No amount of one-sided rule following will rebuild what we had, Republicans have to come around. They will come around when their tactics stop working.
That way lies madness
Hell yes.
Blanket preemptive pardons for everybody who works in DOJ who investigated Donald Trump.
Biden has the immunity, too. Use it for the good of the people doing their jobs and now at risk for a witch hunt.
Michelle Goldberg would include a blanket pardon for prosecutions under the Comstock Act.
Donald Trump pardons:
Joe Arpaio (contempt of court)
Kristian Saucier (unauthorized possession of national defense information)
Scooter Libby (perjury, obstruction of justice)
Dinesh D'Souza (campaign finance violations)
Dwight and Steven Hammond (arson on federal lands)
Conrad Black (mail fraud, obstruction of justice)
Patrick Nolan (soliciting illegal campaign contributions)
Edward DeBartolo (extortion, bribery)
Michael Milken (conspiracy, securities fraud, mail fraud; tax fraud and more)
David Safavian (obstruction of justice, perjury)
Paul Pogue (making and subscribing a false tax return)
Bernie Kerik (various tax violations, false statements on loan application)
Jon Ponder (bank robbery)
Michael Flynn (lying to federal investigators)
George Papadopoulos (lying to federal investigators)
Alex van der Zwaan (lying to federal investigators)
Alfonso Costa (health care fraud)
Charles Kushner (tax evasion, witness tampering, making illegal campaign donations)
Roger Stone (making false statements to Congress, witness tampering, obstructing an official proceeding)
Paul Manafort (tax fraud, bank fraud, failing to disclose a hidden foreign bank account)
James J. Kassouf (false tax return)
Lynn Barney (possession of a firearm and ammunition by a convicted felon)
Duke Cunningham (bribery, tax evasion, conspiracy)
Paul Erickson (Wire fraud; money laundering)
Todd S. Farha (Medicare fraud)
Robert Hayes (lying to FBI)
William Kale (Medicare fraud)
Steve Bannon (Conspiracy to commit wire fraud; conspiracy to commit money laundering)
Elliott Broidy (Conspiracy to serve as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal)
William Henry (theft of government property)
Kenneth Kurson (interstate stalking and harassment)
Richard Renzi (conspiracy, fraud, extortion...long list)
Aviem Sella (espionage)
These are only the highlights. There are lots more. And I didn't even get into commutations, like Rod Blagojevich.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump#Supporters_and_political_allies
I believe that we all - Democrats AND "Republicans" alike - needed this reminder. And excuse me for not wanting to accept their use of the name of Lincoln's party by so many who prefer the views of those who are racist, sexist, xenophobic- or followers of Ayn Rand's objectivist philosophy.
All this and some of you think Biden’s optics are bad?!? Just fuck all the way off. One pardon for HIS SON who was the target of a purely political WITCH HUNT and you’re saying the optics are bad?!?!? Unfuckingbelievable.
If you can't pardon your own father-in-law and appoint him to an ambassadorship, what's the point of being in the White House? /s
SCOTUS 'splained to us that everything POTUS does within his core duties cannot constitute a crime and pardons are one specific duty written into the Constitution.
Now, if Biden were strategic, he'd self-pardon. Making it an issue now places Trump in an awkward position to make a tough choice to either attack it or to defend it.
Of course Biden has no need for a self-pardon; the Supreme Court has given him carte blanche.
Only going back to January, 2021. Joe should issue a self-pardon dating back to his becoming a Senator in 1973.
One word: Burisma
Trump and his acolytes will pursue all of the inane conspiracies, per Kash Patel.
Didn't Trump pardon a bunch of unquestionably guilty felons? I don't see what the problem is, tbh. Now Biden needs to follow through and pardon himself, Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton, President Obama, and every Democrat in Congress (except Pelosi because let Trump have her).
Josh Marshall nails it:
I’m glad he did it. Biden learned the right lesson: no one gives a fuck about norms.
It’s unquestionably true that Hunter Biden wouldn’t be in this position if not for his dad. That’s basically the justification Biden gave. And he’s right. It may sound angry or cynical to say “no one gives a fuck.” But I mean it both in a general way and in this particular way: the reason for Biden not to do this was to allow his son to remain collateral damage of the GOP war against his presidency and to leave him in the hands of the Trump DOJ for at least the next four years all to make a point of principle about being better, different, more righteous, more norm-honoring than Donald Trump.
Truly. No one gives a fuck. If anything, that logic I just laid out sounds like one of those fastidious, hyper-process-oriented and baroque bits of reasoning that have of late left Democrats mesmerized while the real world is passing them by.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-pardon
"fastidious, hyper-process-oriented and baroque bits of reasoning that have of late left Democrats mesmerized while the real world is passing them by."
Josh Marshall understands the situation.
Nobody is going to remember this a month from now. People already forgot all about Trump almost being assassinated twice this summer. People apparently didn’t even know Joe Biden had dropped out and were googling it on their way to the polls. Americans have the memories of fruit flies.
Once Biden is out of the White House, we’ll all have plenty more to worry about like the return of diseases we thought we vanquished or the crashing of the economy as Latinos are deported, federal employees are fired and tariffs are raised. At that point, ain’t nobody gonna be like “yeah but the worst thing ever was when Biden pardoned his kid.”
This whole episode where the concern trolls in the media (i.e., basically the whole commentariat) are wagging the entire Democratic Party through leveraging a narrative is a microcosm of how and why are politics are so fucked.
Radical centrists are as bad as Republicans.
Nate Silver is the absolute worst. I cancelled my sub. He should stick to polls.
The worst is seeing the "This gives Trump cover for giving questionable pardons" media takes. Trump is going to pardon all of the J6 insurrectionists and his loyal felons no matter what and there is nothing on this earth that was ever going to affect that decision one way or the other, least of all this entirely justified pardon that Biden doled out to Hunter.
I'm not a "the mainstream media always lies" conspiracy theorist at all but seeing them consistently pretend that the idiotic things Trump does and says are rooted in the same sort of normal, logical decision-making that a sane politician would use is infuriating.
Journalism is not supposed to be about "presenting both sides no matter what", it is about illuminating the truth. The fact that the current media doesn't understand this is sad.
Much worst than "sad".
It is disastrous. Anybody that relies only day-to-day media reprots will not be able to figure out that Trump is a fascist POS.
Well said! The journalist’s obligation is to her/his readers, not to parties or interest groups or factions.
Lots and lots of big name Dems are laying down in advance. Groveling before the new king steps in.
Kind of a sad state. Certainly sends a message to everyone else, expect no real opposition to whatever Trump brings.
Norms are created when both sides see benefits. Upholding a broken norm emboldens the breaker, he gets the advantage without paying the price. Breaking more norms logically follows, break them until the sucker catches on.
With luck the public gets disgusted and demands higher standards. That doesn't happen so long as half the public is benefitting without paying a price. Observing broken norms delays reform.
We are early in this cycle of degradation. The transgressors are high on victories, norm breaking is awesome, Democratic reticence confirms their weakness. The only way out is for Republicans to see Democrats fight just as hard and use every legal tool just as ruthlessly. Then norm breaking will lose its allure for the simplest reason: It stopped working.
Biden should issue a slew of pardons. Not to criminals, to people Trump might go after. People who could be pursued under the Comstock Act. Hillary Clinton, James Comey, Jack Smith and everyone in his office. Everyone Trump has ever threatened. The more the better. But not criminals.
The public justification is simple. Trump has threatened to use the justice system to go after his political enemies, and these people are not criminals. We know Trump pardons his friends, even when they are proven criminals, so shut up on the hypocrisy.
This is part of the consequences of electing Trump. The conservatives on the Supreme Court will be outraged, good. They need to see that Democrats are over fighting with one hand behind their back.
Slowly the public may rebel and rebuilding a decent politics will again be in the Republican’s self-interest. We are far from that good day, it can only come when the public demands it and neither side at the table is a sucker.
As you can tell I'm with Dean.
Excellent discussion of norm-breaking. Democrats definitely come out looking like the goody-goody chumps, bamboozled at every turn. How will they fight for US if they won't even fight for themselves?
Why is not standing up for pardoning Hunter Biden being a coward or groveling? I've said for years anytime some republican has started blathering "Hunter Biden did this or that"...."I don't give a sh;t about Hunter Biden! He seems like a sketchball. Throw him in jail if he did something that warrants it."
What good does presenting a united front do in this particular case?
Presenting a united front against political prosecutions is a very good idea. It sends the message that congress might object to future political prosecutions.
Especially when the soon to be president has promised more prosecutions to get even with people he dislikes.
For the last time (gee, am I an optimist, or what?), JOE BIDEN DID NOT LIE.
He changed his mind. Smart people can do this when circumstances change. Often, they should.