The Southern Baptist Convention voted overwhelmingly yesterday to disapprove of in-vitro fertilization. The reason is that IVF procedures usually produce lots of fertilized eggs, only one or two of which are ever used. The rest are eventually destroyed.
What makes this maybe a little bit surprising is that among the rank and file, IVF is overwhelmingly supported. Here's a Pew survey from just last month:
Even among evangelical Protestants, IVF was supported 63%-9%. Everybody supports IVF.
Now, the delegates to the SBC convention are probably on the far edge of even Southern Baptists, so it's not surprising they might be somewhat more conservative on the question. And the SBC in general might be more conservative than "white evangelical Protestants" in general.
Still, going from overwhelmingly in favor in a survey to overwhelmingly opposed in a nonbinding vote—that means something. I'm just not sure what.
Gotta watch out for the Southern Baptists.
"In 1845, the Southern Baptists separated from the
Triennial Convention in order to support slavery,
which the southern churches regarded as "an institution of heaven".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention
Way back in the '70s, when the Fundamentalists and Evangelicals couldn't use segregation as their wedge issue any more, Roe v. Wade was handed down, and the Fundamentalists and Evangelicals decided to make opposing abortion their issue. The congregations followed along, and fairly quickly the community followed their leaders and agreed that abortion was wrong.
This could end up like abortion, and the attitude of the congregation will change surprisingly quickly to mirror the line of the church leadership. Or this could end up like birth control for some Catholics in the USA; opposed by "the church", but used quietly by the congregants.
IVF is expensive, and I don't know what fraction of couples trying to have a baby use it. The rarer it is, the fewer people are affected by the decision, and the greater the chances it will go "into the closet" rather than change the minds of leadership.
+1
they'll make a lot more noise over trans issues and gay adoption than they ever will about the 'murder' of fertilized eggs
mainly because of the visibility; it infuriates them that they can see q* people happily living their lives out in the open instead of cowering in the dark (or in prison)
I don’t think it’s because of the visibility. It’s because they themselves might want to benefit from IVF (to get children or grandchildren).
(Needless to say, they’re willing to cut loose their queer/trans children and grandchildren.)
A lot of people who were in a position to know about such things, make a compelling argument that abortion and segregation are really tied together.
Some leaders of segregationist schools were really unhappy that the Nixon (!) administration was enforcing laws about tax-free status in schools and discrimination. Segregation meant that your school can't get tax breaks.
So, oh never mind; here's one article quoting a guy who was present in the room:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480
Yes. The Southern Baptist Convention initially approved of the Roe decision.
"In 1979, McDonald’s introduced the Happy Meal. Sometime after that, it was decided that the Bible teaches that human life begins at conception."
"Keep in mind that this is from a conservative evangelical seminary professor, writing in Billy Graham’s magazine for editor Harold Lindsell:
God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: “If a man kills any human life he will be put to death” (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22-24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense. … Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul."
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/02/18/the-biblical-view-thats-younger-than-the-happy-meal/
"And here is another piece of living memory, another change we all lived through but which many pretend not to remember: the idea that “abortion is murder” came to be white evangelical dogma because it was necessary for making this an all-determining Most Important Thing that we could pretend would allow us to vote in opposition to racial equality while still being able to tell ourselves we’re the Good Guys." https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2024/06/12/an-artifact-from-the-before-time/
I remember hearing Frank Schaeffer on the radio some years ago.
For decades, the big issue with the protestant churches was divorce. Divorce divorce divorce. In 1976, they got their dream president - Jimmy Carter was a born again evangelical and one of their own. He would surely undo Nixon's revocation of tax-free status for segregated religious schools, (BKDad, above) but he wouldn't do it ("the law is the law").
Furious, they threw their support behind Reagan in 1980, a divorced, philandering Hollywood playboy but they couldn't square this with their anti-divorce focus. Schaeffer remembers a voice on the conference call meeting that said "What about abortion?"
And the rest is history. Not one word from those evangelicals about divorce until it was time to distract the rubes (SQUIRREL!!) and get them to vote for Reagan.
OK, spotted the typo. Sorry about that. Should read
"And the rest is history. Not one word from those evangelicals about abortion until it was time to distract the rubes (SQUIRREL!!) and get them to vote for Reagan."
1-2% of US births occur because of IVF.
However, Pew Research Center found that around 1 in 10 women have received some type of fertility care and 42% of adults have either used fertility treatments or know someone who has. I find it unlikely that all of those people are going to be happy to give up IVF as an option.
I would guess they are voting for Purity and Goodness, and the specific topic -- in this case IVF -- is pretty much entirely immaterial.
Something something Lord's Will something uppity wimmin something know-it-all doctors who also do abortions or at least think they're okay or something else bad.
Took the words right out of my mouth. ????????
It means that if they don't believe in magic they have nothing they can believe in which means they have nothing to do and all is meaningless and the only certainty is death, so fuck everything else that's what they're going to believe in.
Not new. But, we used to make fun of that attitude:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cKUppvjJuw
The Ramones version,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjiTzVyXRFE
This same convention was coming off a failed attempt to change its constitution to forbid female ministers. Delegates had to do *something* to prove how righteous they are.
And if I was snarky, I'd add-- they had to do *something* to prove how righteous they are, no matter how many of them had used IVF themselves.
Yes. The vote on that ran 62% to 38%, also reflecting the age cohorts of the two sides.
i think it’s pretty easy to figure this one out. in last year’s fuss over Roe, they discovered how IVF works. in order to appear ideologically consistent they now must oppose IVF. i’m sure that’s pretty much all there is to it.
I wonder if the average Evangelical actually understands how IVF works and thinks they support it because "yay! more babies!" Perhaps a re-phrasing of the question to point out that most fertilized eggs are actually destroyed would yield different results.
Overheard in a diner over breakfast, a local conservative Presbyterian pastor explaining something to a couple of members. Forgot the doctrine, but he never stopped talking. Never. I think their only response were nods.
Like that old English major story about Coleridge and Lamb.
"I say, Charles Lamb, did you ever hear me preach?"
"I never heard you do anything other."
I see no reason to doubt that every last one of them now thinks IVF is murder. Why give them the benefit of some doubt? Those who naively answered a question a while back now have the benefit of a teaching which explains they were wrong. So now they will oppose it.
This cult pretends to care about life and yet, time after time, their true colors show: It's all about restoring a paternalistic society.
The more bat shit crazy the GOP / MAGA/ Rightwing religious nutbags sounds, the better off we may be this November. Just keep on opposing IVF and birth control, and passing draconian abortion laws (like listing mifepristone and misoprostol as dangerous controlled substances).
Of course if MAGA wins, then the voters deserve what they get.
I say kudos to the Southern Baptists. They have at least the courage to be consistent, even when half of their message is not popular: If you oppose abortion as a matter of principle you can not be in favor of IVF. Both are actions that meddle with God's decision and therefore immoral.*
Those many "religious" people who oppose abortion and are ok with IVF are theologically illiterate.
* I believe e no such thing but if I did oppose abortion I would be forced to oppose IVF as well.
As soon as an evangelical says they support IVF then the response needs to be then OK I never want to hear you say you oppose abortion again.
The Southern Baptists have the only logically consistent view and anyone else is a hypocrite.