Oh come on. He only got nominated a few hours ago:
🚨🚨BREAKING — TOM EMMER has dropped out of the race for speaker.
— Jake Sherman (@JakeSherman) October 24, 2023
This was already ridiculous, but now it's positively insane.
On the other hand, it's looking better and better for a Kevin McCarthy comeback!
Now finally I think we move toward an actual splintering of the congressional R party. Couldn't happen to a more likely cluster.
My bingo card is crumpled in the trash.
I don't think this is all nearly so bad as everyone is saying.
They might have voted for Jordan by acclamation.
Someone said on tv the Freedom Caucus handed out a 300 page oppo research document on Emmer.
Will they ever figure out that their best move is to shed the Crazy Eight and make a deal with Dems?
they're all scared of the eight crazies, because they have trump on their side and trump controls the majority of the gop voter base. a deal with dems will very likely get them primaried and out of a job.
In some cases they are worrying about being primaries, but in many cases it is mainly actual physical violence that they are scared of.
The campaign for Jordan was a very mild example of what will happen if any of them vote for a Democrat.
yeah, that too. as a quote i read today said, the GOP is a failed state and trump is it's warlord. violence is in it's DNA.
It’s too bad that, as politicians, they have zero power to do things like ban guns or increase security for themselves or pass popular legislation so that nobody wants to kill them or quit their jobs and vanish into comfortable obscurity or do any of the other things politicians in other advanced parts of the world do to keep themselves from facing violence. The US is really becoming a third world shithole, isn’t it?
❗️
Nailed it. But there are more than eight crazies.
I was actually thinking that Emmer might be the Republican who could make a deal with the Democrats, but I was proved wrong in record time.
You're thinking like a Democrat. Republicans consistently poll as valuing principle over results -- compromising makes you look weak. That's why the end result of this is more likely to be a capitulation to the crazy eight, not a defiance of them. Republican voters will look more fondly on it.
This is a use of the word 'principle' with which I have heretofore been unfamiliar.
Hey, I remember 1965, when the slogan of the Goldwater set was "He'd rather be RIGHT than President!"
This attitude is not new, in other words.
I always liked the Democratic come back to Goldwater’s campaign slogan:
“In your heart you know he’s right.
In your guts you know he’s nuts”
Here is the deal that Democrats should offer:
a) some parity between parties bc of the narrow majority (committees, chairs, etc.)
b) ditch the one-member MTV rule
c) Hakeem Jeffries is speaker
Jeffries is already the top vote-getter at 212. All he needs is 5 more for 217. Just a handful of Republicans can put him over the top.
This is a serious proposal that Democrats should promote. If anyone thinks it's nuts, then the logic of a handful of Democrats putting a Republican over the top is equally nuts.
The reason why Democrats helping Republicans is considered sensible and Republicans helping Democrats is considered laughable is because of the recent history of the two parties. In brief, Democrats have been wimps. That's beginning to change, but the expectation that so many Democrats have (not to mention, the media, the public, and many in this thread), that it's the Democrats who always need to cede ground for the common good, needs to be obliterated.
Voters gave Republicans the majority in the House. R's have had every opportunity to elect a speaker. They have failed. Now is the time -- with wars raging and crises building -- for the House to function again. We need a bipartisan coalition to support a new speaker and that should be Hakeem Jeffries. All it takes is 5 sane Repubican members.
More specifically, five Republican members of Congress who are prepared to lose their very prestigious and cushy jobs, at best. And their or their family’s lives, at worst.
This is not a parliamentary system. The voters gave Republicans the majority in the House. In quite a few cases, the voters chose performers who clearly had little interest in governance. The voters are getting what they chose. If Mom doesn't get her Social Security deposit a month or two hence, well, they are getting the show they wanted, aren't they? Too bad the rest of us have to suffer through it. But for the Democrats to choose a Speaker would be a soft coup against majority rule. Of course, we had those in 2000 and 2016, but unfortunately the Electoral College is enshrined in the Constitution.
“Democracy is the theory the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
H L Mencken
So is the Speaker.
Actually, R's don't have to VOTE FOR Jeffries. If eight vote "present", 210 will be a majority of "those present and voting". Now that does not get rid of the one-member MTV, but if the "Present Eight" pledged to vote "present" on that motion consistently -- sort of a "confidence" guarantee -- then Jeffries could function, albeit with a very short hand.
And the "present" folks might still be "partisan" enough to vote with the R's to axe anything but the barest of bones governance.
Sigh. Oh well. So much for my musings that Emmer might have been a compromise candidate. Who's turn is it in the barrel next? Stefanik?
Uuuuuggghh. Well, this is what you get when you turn your political party into an asylum for unfocused rage and demagoguery, and then turn it over to the inmates.
Some people were suggesting the Dems should vote present allowing whomever-of-the-moment to become Speaker.
But, why is this onus on the Democrats? Should a body of Republicans agree among themselves to vote present allowing Jeffries to become Speaker,
because that way they'll have a Speaker and something could get done but the Democrats still couldn't do anything because Republicans still have the majority.
And there's only a few months in the year left anyway.
Those people are either foolish or want Republican rule.
The Democrats are performing brilliantly, and will likely take the house back because of this. This is not their problem to solve, this is their opportunity to capitalize on.
Particularly telling are claims that Dems should do it "for the country". Why are they not directing that demand to the recalcitrant Repubs?
Because they want Dems to take the blame for Republican dysfunction.
Right on.
+10
The current House continues until Jan 2025. So “only a few months in the year left” is misleading: the House needs a speaker through all of next year too. Elections to allow voters to fix this problem by (hopefully) not electing Republicans won’t be held until Nov 2024.
I will bet at least half the Republican caucus doesn't know that and the rest won't tell them until it's too late.
Next time Democrats have any say in what the House does, they should change the rules such that:
1) As long as ther eis no Speaker, there is at least one vote on it each 2 or three days.
2) Use similar approach to the one Republicans used to select Emmer, so there is always a winner after some rounds.
The constitution says that the House select a Speaker, not fart around trying to select a Speaker, and the rules need to implement it.
For the House to operate under Democratic rules, you need to maintain Democratic majorities. There is no rule Dems can pass that can't be undone by the GOP next time. In case you haven't noticed, the GOP does not adhere to rules, even their own. Their own caucus rule states that the winner of their caucus vote for speaker shall get the full support of the GOP when the vote goes to the floor. That rule got torpedoed when members objected to Scalise, the winner of the first caucus vote. Likewise, with Jordan. Now, with Emmer. Don't be surprised when it happens to the next guy.
When a party falls in line behind a leader who breaks norms, rules, laws, the constitution, and the results of a free and fair election, the only remedy is to ensure the party loses elections until someday it is replaced by a better alternative.
I think that your remedy discriminates against and is unfair to stupid people.
Presumably Yehouda means it should be passed into legislation, not simply be a rule. Legislation would be harder for a future House to overturn.
My understanding:
Except where the Constitution stipulates otherwise, Congress operates under rules established by Congress, and the House and Senate likewise.
Legislation on how the House chooses a speaker that requires approval of both houses and of the executive would be a violation of separation of powers.
IOW, rules about voting for a speaker are the domain of the House alone.
"IOW, rules about voting for a speaker are the domain of the House alone."
Yep.
The reconciliation process was established via legislation, specifically the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Act of 1974, so there's a precedent for writing rules into law. I think you are right about the Constitution, though. Both Houses of Congress currently follow the procedures specified in that Act, but I don't think they are legally required to do so.
I didn't think about legislation.
But even when it is only rule, changing a rule that was made intentionally to avoid such deadlock to allow the deadlock, and then getting into the deadlock is very bad look even for the current Republican party.
Our only hope now is that we get a new strain of covid, and enough Republicans refuse to mask up, thus ensuring that a dozen end up out sick at the same time and then the Dems can elect someone.
Now we see why they lock the cardinals in a building until they elect a new pope. Otherwise, it would never get done.
+1
How long does it take Italy to form a new government?
IIRC, recent records are held by the Netherlands which went without an elected government for 225 days in 2017 and 299 days in 2021. However, Westminster systems allow for a caretaker government empowered to keep the machinery running.
Emmer did not kiss the hand of Trump, is why. The MAGA wing of the GOP has the Establishment wing of the GOP by the balls.
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The Establishment wing of the GOP has balls? Never would have guessed.
Damn. I heard they closed the entries for the next round at 5:30. I was just about to throw my hat in the ring. Maybe I will get in one of the subsequent rounds.
The problem solvers caucus pay lip service to normal order and bipartisanship. A majority requires all 212 Ds plus 5 Rs. There are more than 5 Rs in the problem solvers caucus. The Ds should choose one of them and elect him, presumably with the support of all the other R members of the same caucus. That would give the House a Speaker who knows he is at the mercy of the Ds because any time they decide to oust him, they know they will be supported by at least the eight bomb throwers that voted to can McCarthy.
That would not be quite the same as having a D Speaker, but it would be almost as good.
This isn’t a problem for the D’s to fix. If you came into my house and shat all over the floor, I’m not going to lift a finger to help you clean it up.
If I shit on the floor of YOUR house, it's your problem; I can just walk away from the mess. The fact that the House is not functioning is every Representative's problem. It's true that the Republicans made the mess, but it's still the whole House's problem.
Also note that I'm not suggesting the Democrats act out of altruism. I'm suggesting that they put a Speaker into office who is impelled to behave in a fashion at least somewhat advantageous to the Democrats.
If you shit on the floor of my house, it’s gonna be your problem because I’m gonna sue you. Generally, you aren’t allowed to go into other people’s homes (even if invited) and wreck them, then just walk away. People have been charged with crimes for just throwing shit on other people’s homes from the public right of way.
And if a lawyer comes on here and tells me I can’t sue, like “you invited them in which gives them carte blanche to trash your house” for some reason, well… I got a shovel in my garage and your house has a mail slot… looks like you’ll be getting a special delivery tomorrow.
Yes you would. Because the shatter would leave you the pile.
Once more, with feeling: Rs insist that because a majority of members have Rs after their names, they have the sole right to appoint a speaker and Ds have no right to stick their oars in. Rs also insist that the merest taint of cooperation between an R and a D is a hanging offense for any Rs involved (and some of them mean that literally). So as things currently stand, no R can afford to even breathe about cooperating with Ds.
Oh, almost forgot-- no R nominee can get 217 R votes because factions within the R party have enough votes to block any other faction.
So it's Groundhog Day for the country, except the Bill Murray character never learns an effing thing.
BTW, at least one "problem solver" voted for Jordan on the floor. So how deep is that commitment to normal order and cooperation, really?
" That would give the House a Speaker who knows he is at the mercy of the Ds .."
I am actually with you, but this is not what is going to happen, because Republicans will all refuse. But Democrats should do it anyway, because it will give them ammunition to convince undecided voters if they at least suggested this, saying "we tried to make the House work, but none of the Republicans was ready to help."
meadows flips
***********
Former President Donald Trump's final chief of staff in the White House, Mark Meadows, has spoken with special counsel Jack Smith's team at least three times this year, including once before a federal grand jury, which came only after Smith granted Meadows immunity to testify under oath, according to sources familiar with the matter.
The sources said Meadows informed Smith's team that he repeatedly told Trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them were baseless, a striking break from Trump's prolific rhetoric regarding the election.
...
ABC News has identified several assertions in the book that appear to be contradicted by what Meadows allegedly told investigators behind closed doors.
According to Meadows' book, the election was "stolen" and "rigged" with help from "allies in the liberal media," who ignored "actual evidence of fraud, right there in plain sight for anyone to access and analyze."
Yes indeed:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/chief-staff-mark-meadows-granted-immunity-tells-special/story?id=104231281
Things are not exactly breaking in Trump's direction, unless the Supreme Court steps in and allows him to "delay" the J6 trial.
At last! The co-conspirators are making their runs to the ratlines!
I'm still thinking Stefanik ends up with the gavel.
At this rate I’ll end up forgetting to be careful what I wish for, and volunteer.
And now it's Mike "You can call me Ray" Johnson's turn...
Republicans are "in charge" -- and they don't wanna be. Don't want the responsibility. Don't think this "gummint" thing is worth getting behind. Too much work! And for what? It really cuts into a guy's Xeeting and FBing, right? Wadda bout FREEDUMB?!
👍👍😄😄
I'm seeing way too many BREAKING announcements. And things aren't just breaking, they're broken. The GOP surely is. We live in a time of reckoning: kicking the can down the road isn't working anymore.
Internet rumor Putin had a heart attack,
https://twitter.com/CalltoActivism/status/1716500231804575873
Oh, I know!
What Trump should do now is flip.
11 dimensional chess.
Just had a gander at this guy Johnson's record. He's so far MAGA he might as well have been indicted in Fulton County-- not only voted against certifying the election on Jan 6, but wrote the congressional brief supporting that Texas suit to throw out other states' votes and whipped others to sign on, voted against Ukraine aid, of course is rabidly anti-abortion and lgbtq. He's maybe the leading one of those R congressmen when trump said "just leave it to me and the R congressmen." The mild exterior is the classic wolf in sheep's clothing.
This nomination is a huge middle finger to the country, and they're trying to rush him through today before people figure out that the CPA exterior hides a Gym Jordan but with some gray cells to go with his fanaticism.
Our best hope is that the 20 or so who stayed away from last night's umpteenth nomination fest won't vote for him and we'll be back to lather, rinse, repeat. Or those 20 could finally fold, or they could finally, at long last, splinter the party. The last option has been the obvious move all along and would be best for the country but of course that makes it the least likely.
True to form, trump is forcing every situation to its extreme as a referendum on him, this time for control of the House. It's a January 6 replay by slightly different means.
Watching the news this morning they called him a “values” candidate. Just makes me sick. Turned the tv off.
Openly insurrectionist and complete weirdo, Lauren Boebert is the whole package,
https://www.rawstory.com/maxwell-frost-lauren-boebert/
The Republican MINOs (Moderates In Name Only) caved to the MAGA wing. House Speaker is a coup plotter who wrote a brief and cast votes to disfranchise millions of American citizens.