G.M. said its fourth-quarter sales rose 21 percent from the period a year earlier, to more than 755,000 cars and light trucks. The company’s sales of electric vehicles more than doubled to 43,982 vehicles. Ford sold more than 530,000 vehicles in the quarter, a gain of nearly 9 percent. That included 30,176 electric vehicles, an increase of 16 percent.
If other manufacturers merely hold steady, this would mean a 20% increase overall for EV sales in December. If other manufacturers show gains, it would mean an even bigger increase.
Maybe electric cars are finally catching on for real?
I'd say their growth in EVs was explosive, but that may be misinterpreted.
The only reason I don't own an EV yet is I live in an apartment where the parking lot doesn't have chargers. Otherwise I'd absolutely be there.
Guess it may be anticipation of the end of the Government inducements to promote the E market. I would expect the jump to be even greater. May not be the good news you report.
This. In some way the tax incentives are going to be "reinterpreted" no longer to exclude Tesla, but rather to apply only to Tesla. Those campaign "contributions" gotta be paid back...with "intetest".
EV buyers are smart enough to know that it will take months and almost certaily at least a year for government support of EV's to change.
I'm rocking an almost 14-year old Kia Soul, and would love to replace it with an EV, especially since I work from home and don't need much range to do my day-to-day errands. But most of the major brands' EVs are still starting in the low $40k range and the EV infrastructure in my area (Tidewater Virginia) still feels really lacking. I also don't have a garage, and I'm not too keen on having cables out in the elements running from my outdoor outlets to my car.
You wouldn't want to use an ordinary outlet, but people typically install a dedicated charger which sits outside like the ones you see in parking lots.
You can use an ordinary outlet, but you can also use tool or dryer outlets for more power. That's what I do. Tho my Zero only charges at 1.4k like from an ordinary outlet.
Depends on how much you drive. A standard 110V outlet will give you about 2-3 miles of range per hour of charging time. For most people, an overnight charge at that rate is enough.
Depending upon vehicle.
That's still more miles than most people drive per day.
When we got our first Leaf back in 2019 the dealer included an L1/L2 "intelligent" charger cable. For L2 (40-50 Amp, two-phase) charging you could plug in into a heavy duty four prong plug (NEMA 14-50 is the National Electrical Manufacturers Association name for that type of plug).
Our circuit breaker box was very conveniently located in our garage and it took the electricians only 20 minutes to install the plug next to the box. We had a couple of other electrical upgrades to make, so we got a lot of work done for the minimum call charge.
With a converter the charger cable can also use a regular 3 prong plug. Takes longer to get a full charge, of course, but in a pinch you can get enough charge overnight to have good errand range.
They make outlet covers that you can leave plugged in the rain, and most 'granny cables' (the adapter for standard outlets to the smart outlet that cars use) are weatherproof.
If you drive the average miles per day or less, and choose an average or better efficiency EV, this will be sufficient charging. A Model 3 charges at least 3 miles per hour - there's a bit of overhead for the car being on - which sounds slow, but is 10k miles per year if only charging from midnight to nine am every day. Let alone if you let it charge all around the clock.
I leased a Kia EV6 and it is fantastic. Chargers are fine outside. I just got one from Amazon that is dual 110/220. You might want to shelter the controller box part ut the cables are all waterproof.
That's not a charger, but an adapter cable. L2 'chargers' are just fancy outlets.
The charger is already onboard.
With the federal and California ($2000) rebates, I paid $22K for a new 2023 Bolt EV last January. It’s not the car of my dreams, but I like it a lot more than a gas car. I hate buying gas.
How about "The opening up of the Supercharger network to non-Teslas means that people can now buy non-Teslas and expect to be able to charge away from home".
So one stumbling block to non-Tesla sales is being removed.
I'd like to think it's "across the board," but the NY Times today does report a fall-off at Tesla. But we can hope!
Tesla models are old.
This is not at all true.
Why do you think that?
More likely: Tesla has dead weight as a CEO plus the highest per unit profit margin.
Ok, 2025 model 3 does have better ride and less road noise, though no longer has the standard range (cheaper) model, but:
https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-tesla-model-3-review
The standard range was cheaper because it used Chinese batteries ...which now cost more than the long range model due to the battery incentives.
The long range model costs less than the standard range one did... So why would they keep selling the standard range one?
build quality isn't there compared to other car brands
Citation?
No one is looking at the same details on the same cars, and no one is making hundreds of thousands of them in the US except Tesla.
I wonder, clearly don't know, if the "Maybe electric cars are finally catching on for real?" is misleading.
1. In past reporting cycles GM and Ford lost a significant sum, on each EV sold. My point, the EVs must be sold at a profit for the companies to continue with these products/for one to claim EVs are catching on.
2. With Trump winning, I wonder if some of the purchases are folks, concerned that Trump will change the incentives, that have advanced future purchases.
Whether the auto companies make money or not is not relevant to the EVs 'catching on'.
Crissa - respectfully disagree.
IF the public is not willing to purchase an EV at a profitable price, THEN the car company will stop selling that product. Ford etc, can not lose money on a car line for indefinitely...
Of course in the 1970's the big three (remembering when they were actually big) couldn't make a profit engineering and building decent smaller vehicles that got good gas milage (decent cars don't include the Ford Pinto or Chevy Vega). Toyota, Datsun (Nissan) and Honda could do that and ate their lunch.
These days its going to be those same folks plus Hyundai / Kia, Subaru, and the European luxury brands to do the same with EV/hybrids if the US manufactures drop the ball again.
Volume tends to be the critical factor in whether or not EVs, or any other vehicle, are profitable. Both Ford and GM likely need to at least quadruple their EV sales to show a profit.
Are they losing a significant sum because of the amortized sunk cost of development? If so, this shouldn't hinder further sales.
This is definitely the case. The fixed costs for new cars is very high. Teslas advantage is only because they have been doing EVs longer and haven't been spending large sums on new development (which is why all their cars feel old and stale and have declining sales).
This is weirdly untrue about Tesla.
They've been putting in features the entire time and are selling third and fourth gen EVs while everyone else is mostly still in second gen.
What features didn't they develop that they're falling behind in?
I'd be pretty careful about any supposed loss on each car sold as we don't know how much of the development cost is being attributed to each vehicle. I dimly remember some GM executive claiming that Toyota was going to lose money on every Prius they sold. 6 million cars later Toyota is still in business.
The "lost a significant sum, on each EV sold assume an instantatenous depreciation on technology investment and research. This is of course coplete nonsense.
Keep setting up chargers (i.e. at rest stops) and put out cheaper base cars without all the baloney (self driving, digital everything, etc) and it'll take off. Similar to when Toyota took over with inexpensive fuel efficient cars in the 70-80s.
but gas prices would have to be higher
Come January 21, gas will be under $2. Also eggs.
"Hey, everybody! We're all gonna get laid!"
Current gas prices are around $3 in effing NYC. I saw $2.49 in the Midwest last month and $4 in Los Angeles. This is about as low as they can get bar another pandemic. We have never been willing to tax car fuel anywhere near the cost of the externalities, unlike the EU/UK.
Digital everything is cheaper.
Smaller more basic cars required less battery, which should make them cheaper. This would seem to be a sweet spot in the market for electric cars. You can buy relatively cheap basic EV’s in Asia and Europe, but not so much in the U.S.
People in the US just don't buy small basic cars, ICE or EV.
Every car maker selling in the US eliminated their subcompact models in the past severral years. Ford Fiesta, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris,Nissan Versa etc. Not a plot - just lack of consumer demand/profit.
Unlikely, it's not like they were filling up lots, unsold.
A lot of potential Tesla buyers bought from GM and Ford instead? Since Tesla has seen a falloff in units delivered.
I wondered that too. Tesla owners I know who are Democrats seem not interested in buying a Tesla again. Musk has alienated some of his main buyers. I personally have been interested in buying a Tesla, but I never will now.
Besides Elon being toxic, Tesla leans a little too hard into making drivers rely on the screen for everything. They just got rid of steering wheel stalks too. I had an early Model 3, and I quickly learned how much I like being able to push buttons in my car to do things, like control the climate control. Most of the legacy company EVs have better interior amenities. Teslas do certain things well, but there are a lot better options out there now.
I have wondered if Elon’s obsession with eliminating all tactile controls is because he really thinks the cars will be self driving in a few years.
I think it's just marketing. Teslas are the "cars of the future" because they're just like smartphones. Cheapness too.
Cheaper and faster to develop if everything's on a screen. Physical controls, even basic window and A/C switches, are more complicated and time-consuming to produce than you might think.
This. Tesla is cheap.
Driving a Tesla is like wearing a $50,000 MAGA hat. You gotta think this going to lead to a big drop in Tesla sales.
👍👍👍👍👍
I prefer not to buy cars from MAGA Nazi scumbags.
Which is unfortunate; they can make as many EVs in a year as all other combined.
World wide? I doubt that. All it's gonna take is a few more foreign EV manufacturers to start sending cars to the U.S.
Worldwide? No.
In North America? Yes.
Trump has made clear that that will not be allowed to happen.
According to Motley Fool, Tesla sold 1.81 million EV's in 2923, while BYD sold 1.57 million. If you include plug in hybrids, BYD sold 3.01 million vehicles in 2023. The BBC reports Tesla sales in 2024 were 1.79 million EV's, BYD's were 1.76 million for EV's, 4.2 million for EV's + plug in hybrids.
BYD sold how many in the US?
GM is killing it right now. Also would be curious to know how Kia and Hyundai are doing.
Well, none of them are making profit on their EVs yet. Kia and Hyundai haven't yet put out their third gen cars yet while GM is.
They were all slowed by the drop in profits from their hybrids having the big 'do not garage' recalls.
They should have handled it like Tesla, pay the owners of the burned cars off and make them sign an NDA. The only garage fire in my neighborhood involved a Tesla, but there was near zero publicity about it on the local press.
Really?
Because actual stats show that Tesla fires (and accidents) get more press than their actual numbers.
I certainly see more EVs on the road these days, as well as more charging stations. I think we're finally hitting the point where range anxiety is lessening. Once chargers are common enough that lots of apartment dwellers feel comfortable going electric, sales will really speed up.
Up here in Whatcom county (WA) we have quite a few EVs on the road. When we moved up from King county it was largely Nissan Leaf models. Then Tesla surged especially after Tesla set up a big charging area just south of the Canadian border.
Then Chevy Bolts started appearing, VW ID.Xs, Hyundai Ioniq Xs, BMW I Xs, KIA EVs are around, etc.
build quality isn't there compared to other car brands
You posted this already without citation.
It's just people trying to cram their purchases in before Biden goes away, and Trump kills the EV credit. So thankful we bought ours in 2023 and already got our $7500 in our hands in spring 2024. Trump could easily direct the IRS to make life difficult for anyone filing for it in spring 2025, even for their purchase in 2024, just to fck with the libs. (It's real hard to push back on the IRS. Like what are you going to argue? "You're only auditing me because I bought an EV?" Even if it's true, it's nearly impossible to prove and requires you to lawyer up to win.)
The IRS is legally obligated to ignore instructions from Trump to make it more difficult. I expect most government employees will follow the law. It will likely take Trump a year to hurt subsidies for evs if he wants to. But given the bribes from Musk, that is as likely as his continued opposition to tik tok.
EVs are catching on with certain segments of the population - largely people who are climate conscious and have a driving pattern that fits into the EV wheelhouse. Solving the charge time issue, the charge station availability issue, battery life issue, and affordability issue is still a ways off.
But you need these rounds of investment by early adopters to fund all that development. We're still all-in on hybrids at our house, but when EVs meet our needs we'll switch.
Adoption of anything involves meeting consumer needs.
Does it:
a. Deliver enough value to justify the price
b. Solves a clearly defined problem (which can even be "I need to be the person on the block with the nicest car").
EVs aren't meeting both of those criteria for the middle mass market just yet. At the end of the day, the consumer is buying transportation. They want to get from point A to point B. After that, it's a matter of style, price, and fuel type.
> largely people who are climate conscious and have a driving pattern that fits into the EV wheelhouse
You are overlooking just how cool and fun some EVs are to drive.
> EVs aren't meeting both of those criteria for the middle mass market just yet
You're assuming that there are no supply-side constraints. It's possible that for reasons the industry couldn't build enough EVs to fully supply the middle mass market and hence are tailoring production to the high end of the market.
Also, hybrids *are* evs for the purposes of this blog post.
So, the vast majority of people, you mean, fit into the driving style of an EV.
You wake up with a 'full tank' any day you want. You don't have to go get oil or tune ups.
EVs - even Teslas - have lower total cost of ownership.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1142952_study-tesla-leads-with-lowest-ownership-cost-beats-toyota
"affordability issue" Over the life time of the vehicle, EVs are already cheaper than ICE cars so that problem is solved. They need to work on the other issues and there will likely be a market segment for ICEs for decades.
> Maybe electric cars are finally catching on for real?
GM and Ford come late to the party in a country that is late to the party, so now the party can really start?
You know what would really help EV's, but it is hard to imagine how it could be done. Stagger school holidays. Everybody going on holidays at once means it is hard and expensive to hire cars at holiday times. EVs are best suited to only urban or suburban driving. For long distance driving, the smaller EVs are not practical. If holidays were staggered within states, or even between smaller states, this would be less of an issue.
EVs are fine for long-distance driving - if they have a range of about 250 miles. On the highway, of course, it doesn't go quite that far; air resistance adds up as does cold, and you want to keep in your sweet-spot for recharging which lops the top end off the battery.
But by that distance, a normal person wants to pee, stretch their legs, and eat. All which can be done in a simple charging stop.
It doesn't have much to do with being 'smaller EVs'. It's just that the smaller ones currently are the older ones which don't have modern 250+kW peak charging.
fyi:
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/09/20/5-year-review-of-our-tesla-model-3-sr/
It isn’t hard to increase sales by 20 or 30% when your base is very low. And don’t forget that a ‘sale’ by Ford or GM is when a car hits a dealer’s lot (where it will sit for a long time, since dealers don’t want to sell EVs) - NOT when it is purchased by a customer. In reality, GM and Ford are far behind Kia/Hyundai in passenger car EVs, and light years behind Tesla. It won’t be long before all they will want to make is trucks.
But the real issue is self driving. I own 2 Teslas and 95% of the time I just let the car drive itself. This was not true before the most recent version of FSD was released. But It is now good enough for me to feel comfortable just letting it take me where I want to go. The only times I intervene are when I’m in a situation that the car has no way of understanding (like approaching the entrance to my neighborhood where residents drive through and visitors must stop.). In a year or two when Teslas are autonomous enough for cybercabs to be feasible, we will see how fast people no longer feel the need to pay a high price to buy, operate and insure a second car. And forget Waymo. There is no way they can get the cost of those custom built cars low enough to be profitable at scale, even if they ever figure out how to get beyond the geofenced, highly restricted environment they can operate in now. The only thing standing in Tesla’s way is the entity known as Trump/Musk. Wall Street is giddy about Musk’s successful gamble on Trump portending great things for Tesla. But everything Trump touches dies, so I am preparing for the worst.
Why would it sit for a long time on a dealer lot? Dealers don't order them if they don't want to sell them.
While GM is having teething problems with their software, Ford and GM are not behind Kia and Hyundai, and not far behind Tesla. They're all gearing up third-gen EVs while Tesla is working on developing their fourth-gen while still selling their second and third gen products.
Not at my house.
I've had two electricians tell me that it would cost $10,000 to electrify a charging station in the garage. I loved my house up until then. But I guess it's a hybrid for me.
Find some more electricians. Even if your breaker box is completely full an electrician should be able to install a subpanel for $1500 or so. The charging outlet is just a NEM 14-50 outlet. The chargers run $250 to $600 each.
That's not quite true. It similar to a NEMA 14-50, but is not one. A charging point (the charger you're referring to is just a fancy outlet that tells the car exactly how much power is available - an EVSE or Electric Vehicles Service Equipment.
They can be anywhere from 10 amps up to 80 amps in value, but the vast majority of cars on the market can only use up to 60 amp circuit.
Since the EVSE tells the car how much amperage the circuit can provide, the car never overloads the outlet.
I can't speak for other EVSE's but our juicebox plugs into a standard NEMA 40-15. There is nothing special about it. Unfortunately juicebox decided to get out of the business so it is currently unsupported but still works as like you say it really doesn't do very much.
You can also repurpose a dryer outlet for just a few hundred dollars, too.
As above, you can use any outlet. There is no set amperage required. Whoever quoted you that was lying to you.
$10 grand is outrageous. We had a ChargePoint device installed in our garage. Total cost was just over $1,700. We did have a 240 volt outlet available (previously used for a gas generator by former owner), but a length of appropriate cable from your breaker panel still runs a lot less than $10k.