Here's an interesting tidbit I happened to run across today. For the past eight years Pew has been asking people if they believe their side is mostly winning or mostly losing on important issues. Here are the results:
Generally speaking, people think they're losing when the other party is in power. That's natural. But in the Biden era everyone thinks they're losing. Republicans think they're losing, but so do Democrats by a fairly wide margin. Altogether, three-quarters of Americans think their side is losing.
I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Do Democrats think they're losing because of genuine conservative victories like Dobbs or Republicans winning control of the House? Or is it because they think Joe Biden isn't winning enough? This is important. If it's the former, it makes Democrats mad and probably helps turnout. If it's the latter, it makes Democrats discouraged and probably reduces turnout.
So which is it?
POSTSCRIPT: Note that the 2024 figures are from January polling, well before most of the recent Gaza protests.
Many Democrats are beginning to see the magnitude of the problem with the people who hold opposing views.
If the opposing side holds their views just because that's the way they roll, then using logic to convince them to change their views is hopeless.
This would cause anyone to think that their side might be in for some long-term difficulties.
You need to go farther back than 2016. Lots of us thought we were getting fucked under Obama, too. And Clinton.
But not Baby Bush, eh? Because 9/11, Iraq and Afg were glorious adventures?
The US is, and has been, experiencing a class war, which the rich are winning. The effect of this class war is to increase income inequality.
In 1980, there were thirteen billionaires. Now, there are over 700.
If the average person has come to feel like they are losing, well, they are right.
They have been losing under both Democrat and Republican administrations, because the elected government officials now respond primarily to the money of the rich. Reagan killed the counterbalance to corporation election money, the unions.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/pikettys-inequality-story-in-six-charts
no quarrel with your take away that inequality is increasing, but a quibble with your comparison of billionaires. Is that adjusted for inflation? (Kevin should be proud of the question)
Agree with Adam. While Biden has been pretty good for using the levers of government to direct a little more wealth towards the middle class, the Dems on a whole do not have this as a goal.
When you look at what actually legislation passes (a better gauge of "Dem" priorities) it's the concerns of the wealthy and corporations that get addressed, while the things that would help reduce inequality, strengthen democracy and be good for the climate and international rule of law are always a little out of reach.
This is a great example of the 'everyone is always losing all the time' phenomenon.
Wealth and income inequality are serious and importany issues. Adam makes valid points, but he doesnt seem to be aware of that income and wealth inequality narrowed in the years following the end of the covid recession.
If this is an important topic, this is a win! A moment of success to be celebrated. But instead, we are all always losing.
This is a great example of "Biden gave us a 'win', clap harder for Biden" Dems.
Inequality has reached levels beyond the notable "Gilded Age" due to the basic structure of US politics which has been totally supported/created by Dems over the span of my lifetime.
Biden has gone against the grain a bit ("hurray") and we now have slight modifications to the decades long trend of the government shoveling wealth to the wealthy.
Saying that's a "win" on inequality is similar to how my high school taught that defeating slavery and Jim Crow meant that America is equal - "hurray". Black people weren't fooled, and neither are we that a few recent good data points means we've turned the ship around and are now "winning" over inequality.
The answer I expect to my reply is - "Liberal unhappy unless they get everything they want". We've done this dance forever. There are countries that don't suffer from our levels of inequality - and they have different structures that create that situation. Change THOSE structures, wait to see if it lasts and prove it's working - and I'll join you in clapping loudly for our "win".
That’s an obvious reason for Democrats to believe they are losing (even though Democrats have had successes in other areas, such as gay rights). But Republican have gotten tax cuts for the wealthy under Reagan, Bush, and Trump, with Democrats only partially reversing them. Republicans are clearly winning here, but many of them still seem convinced that Democrats are crushing them.
It's because we have two or three outrageously major things we need to address but instead we have Russia and Ukraine and China and the Middle East and psychotically masturbating Republicans, --and most of those things we can't even talk about.
"Do Democrats think they're losing because of genuine conservative victories like Dobbs or Republicans winning control of the House? Or is it because they think Joe Biden isn't winning enough? "
Speaking for myself, I'd say "we're losing" because the fascist orange skidmark is still creating chaos in our national politics and discourse even though he tried to steal an election, hang his VP, steal a pile of classified documents, and generally act that an embarrrassing idiot.
Trump was wallopped as an incumbent. He should have been forgotten before the new year dawned in 2020.
+1000
And while we're dealing with the idiots, no one is working on solving real problems such as Global Warming...
How about that Democrats, especially liberals, think they're losing because of genuine conservative victories that are the result of the arrogance and incompetence of the Democrats. “Our side” isn’t really on our side. They’re too busy giving the conservatives their victories. Democratic leaders want to kinda sorta be like pre-Trump moderate Republicans, but none of them right now can pull it off as smoothly as bill clinton did. ….
And that sure makes me think that I and regular people like me are losing. The Democrats’ only pitch is “yeah everything sucks and we won’t make it better but it could be worst.”
These results seem to be strongly related to the bizarre and delusional general survey results on the US economy.
While the economic data is good, great actually, most people view the economy very negatively over the last 4 years.
Half the politicians and nearly all of the media have been pushing this general negative state for several years now. No matter what happens, its framed as bad news and people like you will suffer because of it.
Sometimes its comical as the facts change but the narrative stays fixed....jobs are down, thats bad....now jobs are up, but thats bad too! Wages are up, bad! Now wages are down, Bad! Inflation up, bad! Inflation is down, bad!
sigh....
Somebody thinks they're losing!
“I am completely disgusted that people voted for Joe Biden to be the president,” Mattus wrote on Facebook days after the 2020 election, calling Biden a “fucking child molester,” an unfounded QAnon claim. “I am fucking irate this is complete and utter bullshit I’m ready for the &%$#@ Civil War,” he wrote.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/illinois-man-arrest-bomb-ready-for-civil-war-1235027015/
What we have in this country are a non-trivial number of people who are unhinged. I don't know how many... 10%? 20%? (Depends on if you think there are unhinged lefties.) They are very loud. They are armed. They are making threats.
Am I losing to them? No. But they would like me to think I am.
I think it's simpler than we are making it: we often remember our big losses and mourn lost opportunities, but forget the big wins that become part of the status quo. For example, if the Dobbs decision had been different, would it still be in the news to the extent it is now? We don't talk as much about our healthcare situation now that the ACA has been accepted. Just one example of each.
The press generally, and Fox News in particular. Mainstream media portray horrible things the right wing is actually doing, discouraging democrats. Fox News saturates its viewers with bad things they attribute to democrats, usually by taking a small "bad" event (sometime true, sometimes not) and magnifying it to make it seem pervasive. Both ignore positive news.
(For some reason I cannot post the link below, so just take out the space after the https:)
https: //scholars-stage.org/honor-dignity-and-victimhood-a-tour-through-three-centuries-of-american-political-culture/
When victimhood is the most reliable path to what you want, you're SURPRISED that everyone says they are victims?
Which part of the "victimhood is the most reliable path to what you want" did you not understand?
It is because the Supreme Court is really in charge and no one else matters and no one wants to do anything about it. I hope to god if Democrats take both houses of Congress that they expand the court and provide it with a code of ethics with an enforcer who is not on the bench. No more honor system.