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Here’s the whole story behind the Times Square melee

Published on 66 Comments on Here’s the whole story behind the Times Square melee

You've probably all seen those pictures of a gang of migrants beating up a pair of cops in Times Square. It's pretty disturbing, and there's no excuse for it.

Nonetheless it's instructive to see what really happened. The cops say the migrants were told to move because they were blocking the sidewalk. But bodycam footage clearly shows they weren't:

They're clustered over to one side, just hanging out. One of the cops tells them to "Vamos," and they all start walking away. A few seconds later one of the migrants stops to rearrange the stuff in his cart and the cop comes up behind him and tells him to keep moving. He does, but first turns around to tell the cop he looks like Ugly Betty. This pisses off the cops, who grab him and push him against the wall:

A few seconds later the cops are momentarily distracted and the guy tries to run away. The cops tackle him and that attracts his friends. This is when the melee starts.

Attacking cops is stupid and wrong, and you'd think a bunch of migrants would be especially aware of this. That said, nothing would have happened if (a) the cops had just left them alone, or (b) ignored the insult. Why didn't they?

You can see all the bodycam and surveillance footage here, along with a more detailed explanation of what happened.

66 thoughts on “Here’s the whole story behind the Times Square melee”

  1. rogerdalien

    Thank you for this evenhanded accounting.

    Here's a fun fact about the NYPD (and other government employees): THEY STEAL PARKING. That's right, they've instituted a system whereby they signal to parking enforcement that they are cops and no one is to ticket them. So, our narrow streets are littered with their (and their families) cars.

    It's called corruption.

    They also exempt each other and their families from moving traffic enforcement, which is worse.

  2. architectonic

    Attacking innocent bystanders is stupid and wrong, and you'd think a bunch of cops would be especially aware of this...

    2. different_name

      This is the NYPD. They act like New York exists at their sufferance, and to be fair, they have the bodies and firepower to take it over.

      I lived there for almost a decade. I learned to treat them like the other gangs - act normal and move on calmly until you get away from them and you'll probably be fine, as long as you're white and dressed appropriately for the neighborhood.

  3. royko

    Stupid, yes. Wrong? No.

    I never advocate violence, but if cops are attacking an innocent, I can't say that it's wrong to try to stop them.

  4. golack

    Part of this is the "warrior policing" mentality.
    You must dominate every situation!!!
    Any perceived slight, no matter how minor, can not be tolerated--even if it wasn't a slight, you must dominate!

  5. Total

    Oh, dude, stop. Just because the VRWC starts yapping about something doesn’t mean Democrats have to take the opposite side, Here’s a hint: don’t tell a f******* cop that they look like Ugly Betty. Jesus Christ, you moron.

    1. lawnorder

      Here's a hint for the cops. People have a constitutional right to be rude, even to cops. Responding to rudeness with violence can get a cop sued, or even prosecuted.

            1. pipecock

              NYPD is paying out around $100 Million a year in misconduct settlements over the last few years. So yeah, you’re just wrong AND stupid. Good luck with that.

        2. lawnorder

          Big bucks, and I wouldn't be surprised if these cops find themselves facing federal charges for civil rights violations.

    2. different_name

      Cops are citizens like anyone else. This fucking attitude that cops are somehow entitled to deference and freedoms that the people who pay their fucking salaries are not is the reason they get away with acting like it.

      Stop kissing cops' asses. They're civil servants working on the public dime and deserve exactly as much respect as any other human - as much as they earn.

        1. JFO

          You're confusing how the world does work with how it should work. It IS the case that you should be careful and polite around cops because they can really wreck your day if they feel like it, even without legal justification. But that SHOULDN'T be the case, which is what the other posters are saying.

        2. Five Parrots in a Shoe

          This is how America works: we have to treat cops exactly the way we treat other gangsters. Tiptoe around them, try not to get their attention, and if the worst happens and we find one of them focussed on us, then we must be utterly polite and deferential because otherwise they might ruin our lives.

    3. chumpchaser

      Bullshit. You have a right, affirmed by the supreme court, to verbally abuse a cop and not be murdered for it.

      But hey, it's not like white people get away with doing it all the time, right?

      1. Total

        They weren’t murdered, you twerp. They’re not citizens, which puts the constitutional issues in doubt, and again, you f***** moron, don’t be a douche.

        2. lawnorder

          The Bill of Rights is territorial; it applies to anybody in the United States, citizen or not, legally in the country or not.

        3. chumpchaser

          You're the dumbass copsucker who didn't know the Constitution applies to everyone on US soil. Why are fascist assholes always so confidently stupid?

      2. TheMelancholyDonkey

        Maybe, if we start holding cops accountable for their illegal behavior, they'll stop expecting total submission at all times.

  6. Five Parrots in a Shoe

    The best part of this story is the drastic difference between what cops initially said happened, and what is actually shown in the video.

    Journalists seem to have finally gotten a clue that statements from cops - including statements made under oath - must ALWAYS be fact-checked.

    1. Solar

      This. The biggest issue here is that like it often is the case, the version of what cops said happened, and what actually happened is as different as night an day.

      It's never good for any society when the police regularly have to lie to justify their abusive actions.

      Until the media and large chunks of society stop giving the police the benefit of the doubt on anything they say, the police will have no motivation to improve their behavior.

      1. TheMelancholyDonkey

        I wonder if the version they told the public is what they wrote in the official reports, which they attest is the truth and could (but, of course, won't be) subject to discipline for if they lied.

        1. Creigh Gordon

          Fortunately I'm an older white man. When I was a teenager cops stopped me all the time for no reason. There's no doubt in my mind it would have been 10x worse if I was minority.

    2. painedumonde

      That's because you pretend to be free and express that freedom but you really are a coward and toe the line your masters tell you to.

        1. ScentOfViolets

          We know; that's why you smear your hands with your own feces and then dare those around you to make eye contact.

        2. painedumonde

          Then you've understood my point. Now return to your assigned daily routine or maybe a nap, this small rant of yours must have worn you out.

  8. iamr4man

    I’m looking forward to Trump calling the men who were jailed “hostages” and calling for their release. I’m sure Republicans are really upset about the arrests. Are we sure they weren’t encouraged by the FBI and the “deep state”. I’ll bet Nancy Pelosi had something to do with it.

  9. D_Ohrk_E1

    To further expand on what Royko wrote, the premise is that a cop takes you down for no apparent reason.

    Are you scared shitless that he's a ticking timebomb and will go Rambo on you...

    (a) ...but maybe if you comply he might spare your life?
    (b) ...so you definitely have to beat the thug up before he kills you?

    Are you upset that he's a shithead doing something shitty...

    (a) ...and if you just go along, everything will sort itself out?
    (b) ...but the system is corrupt and if you go along you'll just get screwed, so fuck it?

    Now, compress your thoughts about this into the first 5 seconds while the cop is taking you down. What does your instinct say?

    Now, think about all the experiences that formed that instinct.

    I wouldn't call it "dumb" for a migrant to react this way. It was wrong, but dumb -- you're passing judgement based on how you would react based on your past experiences.

  10. painedumonde

    It's all about power. Unfortunately these officers had, probably still have, an incorrect perception of their power in the streets. Bolstered by their firearms, they push around the weak. Had a man in a fine suit conversing with other men and their ladies just outside the opera house turned his nose up and dismissed the officers without obeying, would there have been a conversation or a grapple?

    And because they were mistaken, got their shit handed to them. Even taking their age and experience into consideration, their hubris blinded them. Metaphorically, they walked into an ad hoc ambush. Maybe. Maybe this was an older cop showing off to the new guy. Maybe he was dressed down earlier by a superior. Maybe he had been belittled by coworkers for not being tough enough. Doesn't matter, because each interaction is unique. And what really matters is that each interaction is with a human, with certain rights and dignity, that no matter how ill informed, inebriated, educated, in the right or wrong, or any other condition should be treated as a citizen until proven otherwise.

    Start at minute 3:30

    https://youtu.be/Ylx38ctrsTo?si=yvNuB-KCu_pdxrkD

  11. Justin

    We can’t worry ourselves about this foolishness.

    A 15-year-old boy was arrested on Friday, accused of shooting a Brazilian tourist in Times Square the night before and then firing twice at a police officer while fleeing the scene, officials said.

    The arrest came about an hour after the police said at a news conference that they were seeking the teenager, Jesus Alejandro Rivas Figueroa, in the shooting of the tourist, a 37-year-old woman who was hit once in the leg. Her injury was not life-threatening, and she had left the hospital as of Friday afternoon, the police said.

    Police officials said the teenager was from Venezuela and had been staying at a Manhattan migrant shelter following his arrival in New York last fall, one person among the tens of thousands of people who have come to the city after crossing into the United States at the southern border.

    1. Five Parrots in a Shoe

      From the Wikipedia article "Immigration and Crime":

      "Research in the United States tends to suggest that immigration either has no impact on the crime rate or even that immigrants are less prone to crime."

      That sentence has six footnotes, followed by something I've never seen before, another footnote that says "excessive citations". In other words, that quoted sentence is one of the most abundantly well-documented statements on all of Wikipedia.

      I know such abundant evidence won't affect the bigotry of a known white supremacist, but others reading in this forum might be interested in seeing the truth.

  13. pjcamp1905

    Why didn't they?

    Because cops are scum, that's why. They're trained to be scum. That's what warrior training is.

    We need cops, but we don't need these cops.

    1. Art Eclectic

      Are you saying we also need this trash on our streets? If people have to choose between putting up with this garbage and cops, guess who wins in November?

      1. cmayo

        Perhaps the problem is with seeing people, who are just minding their own business not bothering anybody, as "trash."

        That's a really disgusting opinion to hold.

  14. Justin

    This post and the comments are a perfect illustration of why people think democrats hate the police and tolerate criminals. The crime rate may be down in some places compared to some other time, but the police are still seen as the enemy.

      1. painedumonde

        The police are seen as the enemy when they act like the enemy. Over time in this country, pick whatever time period you wish, police have applied power, fairly and unfairly, to citizens that have and have not committed crimes. And the proverbial apple spoils the whole barrel. It is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise. It is disingenuous of you to suggest people tolerate criminals. You are disingenuous.

        Of course this deputy's death is horrible, as was the death Floyd. Neither needed to die, but they have.

        1. lawnorder

          Not disagreeing, but subtle nuance. The police are seen as enemies by people they treat as enemies, and by the friends and relatives of those people. In the instance at hand, the police were treating the immigrants as enemies, and they responded accordingly.

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