I'm glad you asked. Here's the latest data from the CDC:
Half of us have gotten a flu jab this season but only a fifth of adults have gotten the latest COVID vaccine. How come? Dr.
When I ask my patients if they have any concerns or questions about the Covid vaccine, hardly any do.... There’s just a vague hedge, or an abashed, “I don’t know, I just don’t.” As I try to suss out what’s on my patients’ minds, I can feel their own slight sense of surprise that there is no specific issue causing their discomfort about getting the updated Covid vaccine. It’s as though they have a communal case of the heebie-jeebies.
....These patients are not anti-vaxxers; they take their shingles vaccines and tetanus shots with hardly a shrug. Nearly all received the initial Covid vaccine series, and fully remember the urgency of getting those hard-to-find vaccination slots in the early days. Nor do they seem to be science deniers; they embrace standard medical treatments for most of their other health conditions.
Lately, COVID has seemed like more of a nuisance than a killer. This probably drives some of the hesitance. But flu is also more of a nuisance than a killer for most of us. And there's been enough talk about long COVID that you'd think people would be eager to do anything they can to avoid it.
Perhaps the low coverage rate is because of the widespread anti-vax sentiment among conservatives? A map of vaccine coverage suggests it might be:
Red states have generally low coverage and blue states have generally higher coverage. On the other hand, we can also look at international vaccine rates:
The EU, annoyingly, doesn't report overall COVID vaccination coverage for the current season, but it does report coverage for those aged 60-69 years. The US, annoyingly, doesn't precisely report the 60-69 age range. However, interpolating from other age ranges provides a pretty good estimate, and it turns out the US is entirely normal. If fact, it's one of the more highly vaccinated countries, with a rate considerably higher than the EU average.
So the reason for lack of interest in the latest COVID vaccine seems twofold. First, there's a generalized COVID fatigue everywhere. Second, there's resistance to the vaccine among conservatives in the US. That's my best guess, anyway.
That map is a bit embarrassing for NY (where I live). I have no idea why we're so low. And what's up with France?
I think it is the Macron fatigue that they have in France. He really fucked it up.
"Well, it's actually more important to me what some of my more ignorant and anger-prone friends might think if they found out than what my doctor tells me about reducing my chances of suffocating in my own lung butter."
As usual, if they and their friends and relatives remove themselves from the gene pool, we're probably better off. But they also put other people at risk and consume medical resources needlessly.
Judging from comment sections in the Swiss paper that I occasionally read, there are quite a few Trumpists over there and they believe the bullshit as religiously as the ones here. The Swiss people's party is now as Trumpian as the GOP; thank God (or rather thank the Swiss of the early 20th century) for proportional representation (multi party system).
My nephew and his wife just got Covid. Both were vaccinated with the latest booster. Both had it before. She wasn’t feeling well and took the rapid test which was negative on successive days. But a friend she had been with had Covid so she took a PCR test and it was positive. My nephew got symptoms and also got a negative result from the home test. But based on his wife having it and testing negative on the home test he also got the PCR which was positive. Both were pretty sick but his was shorter because he was able to take Paxlovid. She couldn’t because she had waited too long. Also, she said she was only with the friend outdoors.
So I’m trying to remain careful.
As vaccines become more commonly available, it seems the care given to administering them drops.
No place I asked could administer the covid vax to me this fall, because none are prepared for a patient that might have a seizure. All the clinics before would have a bed and a nurse on call... no more.
So I wasn't able to get this one. My doctors' office didn't get it until late last year. And their associated vaccine clinic no longer has a cot.
Difficult to receive Covid shots in late fall but it happened. Shots are administered by pharmacists or non medically trained pharmacist assistants. I asked about the hold up and they claimed it was due to professionals. I offered as a nurse, for free, to assist and was rebuffed. They really don’t want help.
I think the issue is that a lot of people have bad side effects from the shot and Covid now for most people isn’t that bad. I had it a couple months ago and it wasn’t much worse than recovering from the vaccine, except for the isolating part.
You had the vaccine.
Without the vaccine, it's the worst flu ever.
guy i grew up with died from it
so... yeah
Right, obviously. I’m just talking about lower uptake on the boosters. I have rarely been happier than the day I got the first shot, and I’m generally terrified of needles. But each time I’ve gotten a shot, I’ve been so exhausted I could barely move for a day or two. So it is a tradeoff of definitely being out of commission or of maybe getting covid and maybe being ill for a bit.
But each time I’ve gotten a shot, I’ve been so exhausted I could barely move for a day or two. So it is a tradeoff of definitely being out of commission or of maybe getting covid and maybe being ill for a bit.
Your "definitely" is doing a lot of heavy lifting!
Not everyone has your side effect profile. I'd say only a very modest portion do. I've had virtually no ill-effects from any of the four jabs I've had, apart from the last (July of 2024 at a CVS in the Bay Area, Pfizer) when I had a very mild degree of soreness around the injection spot for a single day.
Erm, "July of 2023"
"Not everyone has your side effect profile. I'd say only a very modest portion do. ..."
I have consistently felt lousy for a day after the covid shot. The only other vaccine reaction that was comparable for me was the shingles shot. Rumor has it this is a product of the rushed development, the vaccine makers didn't try to fine tune the dose. But the nasty side effects are bad if you want people to take the vaccine every year. A weaker vaccine that people are willing to take might have been better overall.
I think you are way overestimating their ability to "tune" the vaccines. The truth is each individual’s immune system is distinct and unique, it has to be as it is ideally programmed not to attack yourself, but is programmed to attack anything else. Typically most of the unpleasant side effects don't come from the actual vaccine, but from the adjuvants.
"...Typically most of the unpleasant side effects don't come from the actual vaccine, but from the adjuvants."
According to the CDC the common Covid vaccines don't use adjuvants.
They don't. But that doesn't change the statement.
You immune system has to be reprogrammed, and that's the tiredness and soreness.
But that's also not the worst reactions.
"They don't. But that doesn't change the statement."
It means it is irrelevant to any discussion of Covid vaccine side effects.
"You immune system has to be reprogrammed, and that's the tiredness and soreness."
Presumably the flu vaccine is reprogramming my immune system as well but the side effects are less. And it isn't just my imagination, the covid shot raises my temperature at least a degree (to 100.7 last time) while the flu shot doesn't.
Jeez this is feeling like the bad old days of Twitter. Yes, obviously if you don’t have vaccine side effects, your calculations are different. For ME, it is a tradeoff of definitely out of commission or maybe getting covid.
The odds of you feeling down for a day are say, 90%.
But how many days would you be down if you got covid?
You're ~30% less likely to get covid if you get the seasonal. Your average duration is going to be 50% less, even though the average is still five days, those with the seasonal are more likely to have no symptoms or stick to the five days than someone without. You're up to 1400% less likely to die having the vaccination, as well as suffering long-term effects.
On top of that, getting covid only exposes your immune system to one variant, the vaccine exposes you to several.
Over five years, getting an annual or bi-annual vaccination would ding you for 5-10 days by your own estimation - equal to getting covid once in that time if you're not vaccinated. With the risk of it lasting two weeks, which is much more common for the unvaccinated.
The math is pretty clear here.
Yes, obviously if you don’t have vaccine side effects, your calculations are different.
I'm simply trying to point out that the phenomenon of "hardly any symptoms at all" isn't exactly unheard of. Human nature being what it is, folks who have had fairly noticeable side effects possess a greater propensity to mention this (after all, it's an issue for them) than those who haven't. And yet, for millions of people, covid shots are just like any other: you feel a prick in your arm, and maybe some brief, very mild soreness around the injection spot. And that's it.
In any event, the comment I was responding to made it sound like significant side effects ("definitely being out of commission...") were guaranteed for all. But that's, erm, definitely not the case!
I've had a similar experience, but only with boosters after my real infection with covid (which was pretty mild). The major benefit of the booster is I get to plan when I'm going to feel bad, so I'm less likely to miss out on something important to me.
The pharmacy I scheduled my covid and flu boosters at this fall hadn't filed the paperwork for kids, so we had to do a second round of appointments elsewhere for them. That was annoying.
I do worry that boosters will be harder to find going forward. Being able to get both flu and covid simultaneously is helpful, though.
Excellent point about getting to plan in advance for when you’re going to be out of commission. I’ve had quite a variety of side effects, mostly mild temperature and 2-3 days of feeling punk. I’m lucky, however, in that I’m retired, and if I don’t feel like getting out of bed the next day (and I didn’t for any of them, I’ve had them all) I didn’t have to. Working people and anyone with small kids is in a much tougher spot, especially if they work in a job with no sick leave.
I would tent to agree with others, once you've had Covid (even after being vaccinated, it's still awful) but you are pretty sure you're not going to die from it and so it's less of a threat.
I've received my vaccines as recommended, except that last March I got covid just as the next shot was about to be scheduled. I wasn't that sick; if not for the home test confirming it was covid I would have thought it was a medium severe cold. However, I'm not optimistic enough to presume that it won't be worse next time so I keep up with the vaccines. Mind you, my reaction to the vaccines has never been worse than a sore shoulder for a couple of days.
Go look at the surges. There appears to be annual twinsies -- late summer (august) and mid-winter (january).
Does it make sense for the CDC to target fall for the next season's COVID vaccines?
That's why the booster was quadravalent.
I know that the right thing to do is to get more boosters. But personal experience is hard to overcome. I got the first two vaccinations and the first booster as soon as I could. Then I caught covid. It was unpleasant for me, but I've been sicker. Recently I had it again and I've had colds and sinus infections that were much worse. (I'm aware that my previous experiences are not guarantees that the next bout won't be terrible. Plenty of people are still dying.)
Also, a man I've known for 40 years suffered an illness that dramatically reduced his heart function within a day of a covid booster. He used to do his own yard word and now it is all he can do to walk to the mail box and back.
My doctor has told me he's thru with Covid boosters. He said he would never tell a patient not to take the booster, but the risk/reward ratio doesn't seem good enough for him personally. He gets the annual flu shot.
So, I think about getting another booster, but just can't work myself up to it.
When Alvarez's patients express concerns about vaccine risks, he points out that their risk of getting in a major car accident on the way to his office – a risk they all were comfortable with – is higher than the risk of a serious reaction to the vaccine.
https://www.heart.org/en/news/2023/10/06/what-people-with-heart-disease-should-know-about-vaccines-today
That may well be true, but it's kind of beside the point and he probably didn't actually research the statistic. I'm not sure what Alvarez considers a "major accident", but the resale value of my car is only about $2500 so I went looking for fatal accident statistics. After spending a half hour looking for relevant statistics, I'm going to say that it would take a huge amount of work to determine what the odds are of any individual snuffing it on a drive to his doctor. I doubt Alvarez did that.
Three different sources gave highway fatality rates of 0.6, 1.11, and 1.5 deaths per 100,000,000 miles. I think the 0.6 was limiting the fatalities counted to those traveling in cars or light trucks. The 1.5 may well have been adding in motorcycles and including deaths of bicyclists and pedestrians. Then there's the question of number of occupants, time of day traveled, speeds driven, and general road conditions.
Using the 1.5 per 100,000,000 miles I'd expect to be killed less than once every 5 million visits to my doctor. I need to see him to discuss my chronic diseases and to renew prescriptions as well as for immediate health problems. Driving is necessary if I'm going to see him. Seems like a reasonable risk to take to me.
Most probably taking the Covid booster is also a reasonable risk. I'm not saying it's not. It's an anecdotal effect: Most people I know have had Covid whether they were vaccinated or not. Most of these people have had relatively mild cases whether they were vaccinated or not. I don't personally know anyone who died from it. I know one person who had a very bad response to the vaccine.
This isn't a statistically valid response to the situation. It is my visceral response. I'm a Democrat. I imagine the qualms are much higher for followers of the great orange blob. Anyway, this is my take on the lower than desired vaccination rate.
i wasn't trolling you or trying to make you feel bad for your decision, just saw that quote and thought it might be interesting to others who are feeling conflicted
from my perspective, in addition to the friend who died, my sister in law was hospitalized and had long covid for about six months; personally i'm actually less afraid of dying from covid than getting thousands of dollars in hospital bills and dealing with long covid
i've had lingering colds that went on for approx 6 weeks in the past so feel like i might be prone to that sort of reaction, so i've gotten every covid dose that's been available to me
but of course ymmv; everyone's genome is different
I have the opposite view.
If we know that both vaccines have roughly the same risk ratio of severe adverse reactions, then we have to compare other variables. The variables I'm most concerned with are VE and scale of hospitalizations/deaths.
VE: The COVID vaccines (80-95%) have significantly higher VE than Influenza vaccines (40-60%).
Scale of hospitalizations/deaths: At peak this past season in the US, COVID had roughly 35,000 hospitalizations and 2000 weekly deaths, while Influenza had 22,000 hospitalizations and 700 weekly deaths. While COVID has never dropped below 6000 weekly hospitalizations and 400 weekly deaths, Influenza routinely drops below 1000 weekly hospitalizations and under 10 weekly deaths.
Therefore, as I told my doctor, if there's a vaccine that I'd skip, it's Influenza. And I do skip Influenza vaccines. I've only had the Flu once in the last 30 years.
Of course, if I hit 65, I'll start taking annual Influenza shots, as the risk of death dramatically rises.
SC-Dem knew someone who got sick from the shot, while i knew someone who died from covid
you pays your money, and you takes your choice
I only got flu once in the past 12 years - the one year I forgot to get my flu shot. And it was freaking miserable. So I get that. The thing about the COVID shot is that both my wife and my older son had absolutely miserable reactions to the second shot, and my wife had a miserable reaction to the booster as well. But they've both had COVID since then, which seemed to be more tolerable. And once you've had the shots and COVID, it seems like the T-cells and B-cells should give you long-term protection, whereas the shot mostly just boosts your antibodies short term. And wife/son are not high risk. So we've skipped the most recent boosters for them. I, OTOH, am high risk, and also didn't react nearly as poorly to the shots, and took COVID a little harder when I got it, so I am keeping up to date on my boosters.
As a child I tested positive for allergy to chicken feathers. Since then, most doctors have told me not to take the flu vaccine, so I never have. I think I've had a couple of mild cases of the flu.
Still, I'm over 65 and I've heard you can get flu vaccine that is not made using chicken eggs. On the other hand I know two people who suffered for over a year from Guillain-Barré syndrome caused by the influenza vaccination.
It's all a matter of balancing risk and reward. You never know in advance what will truly be best for you. I'm not anti-vaccine and I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do.
With regards to allergies to chicken eggs, I point you to the Mayo Clinic.
While Guillain-Barré is associated as a very rare serious adverse reaction to vaccines, it only happens because you're triggering your immune system. IOW, *any* infection has the potential to cause it, not just a vaccine.
I would find a new doctor, one who can do math.
I could certainly be wrong about this, but I would say that hesitancy towards endless Covid vaccines is utterly normal.
Vaccines, in my experience, have always been a rare but valuable thing. And that seems to be the healthy balance that works for most people. But, once the vaccines are frequent and repetitive instead of rare, people begin to reconsider.
I’m pretty certain the same would be true of other vaccines as well. I had a tetanus booster years back. And it occurs to me maybe I should get another. And I feel OK about that. But it’s not something I look forward to; it’s just a necessity that I can accept under certain circumstances.
I don’t like shots, and I put as few medical substances into my body as possible. So, if someone told me to start showing up for tetanus shots every few months, but there were no immediate and life threatening reasons to do so, I would not agree.
Naturally I rushed out to get the first Covid vaccine as soon as I could. There were no second thoughts. The second shot was bothersome but still seemed worth it. The third one was annoying. I had to really force myself to get the fourth, and I just felt done with the process at that point.
Ironically, it was maybe two months after I got that fourth shot, while traveling, that I tested positive for Covid for the first time. The vaccines must have helped, because my experience was milder than almost everyone else I have spoken to or read about.
I was in fact quite surprised to test positive since I felt more or less exactly like I do when I have a slight cold. I don’t think I ever had a fever with Covid. Even the doctor testing me seemed surprised that I tested positive. And after four shots and a nearly trouble free case of Covid, I just feel very much like moving on.
Perhaps that is unwise, but it is, nevertheless, human nature. Not to be too morbid, but without a very visible and immediate threat of death or serious pain, most people simply will not continue subjecting themselves to shots indefinitely. I’m not sure what that says about the future of Covid, but I don’t really think anything can be done about it.
Unless you have some rare medical condition, if you are not getting vaccinated, you are wrong, both personally and globally.
Period.
End of story.
No “but, what about”.
No. No. No. You are just some combination of lazy, stupid, delusional, and evil, and I don’t care which.
Except that if the vaccine isn't available, you can't get vaccinated. Period. End of story.
@Ogemaniac:
“You are just some combination of lazy, stupid, delusional, and evil”
I hope you’re getting whatever help you need 😐
The greatest danger from covid is for older people so most anecdotes of younger people are not very relevant, nor are statistics for younger people. What are the benefits to older people in terms of death reduction, and what is the rate of adverse reaction? Nobody here seems to have given any of these things, that is the statistics. Rational people would base actions on statistics, not anecdotes.
I'd add medical professional weariness, and pharmacy inconvenience. I gave up after two appointments to a local pharmacy were cancelled without notification (wasting my time). I then had it via a doctor's appointment, but I brought it up, not them. I think anti-vaccine jihads tire medical staff in the same way fake elector schemes tire poll workers.
No.
My health care provider told me to get flu and covid vaccinations. So I tried to set up an appointment. A flu shot was easy to get, but they didn't have any covid vaccine. I got the flu shot. I waited a couple of weeks. Got more ads from my health care provider to get a covid vaccination, but they still didn't have any vaccine available to give me.
First, make the vaccine available, then complain how no one is getting vaccinated.
Well apparently you can't get a booster without your original vaccine card, and my wife tossed mine out accidentally. So no boosters for me.
Your medical records should have a copy for you. Look up your local health depart where you got your initial series. All immunization records have someone who can verify them,
Perhaps this is a good reference point:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-1918-flu-faded-in-our-collective-memory-we-might-forget-the-coronavirus-too/