A week ago I mentioned there was now a huge discrepancy between UN and Israeli figures for aid getting into Gaza. The UN acknowledged that it wasn't counting commercial shipments, but that hardly seemed like enough to account for the difference.
But maybe it is. This is from the Guardian:
In May, the Israeli military lifted a ban on the sale of food to Gaza from Israel and the occupied West Bank, Reuters reported last week. Traders got the green light to resume buying fresh fruit and vegetables, dairy and other goods.
Hmmm. Here's what the Israelis say:
Ami Shaked, the manager of the crossing complex where shipments are checked by Israeli security, confirmed that truck deliveries for business were outpacing aid, but said it was driven by the commercial interests of logistics firms.
....“Because if I have a contract with UNWRA [the UN agency for Palestinian refugees], they will pay, for example, 2,000 shekels for each truck. The market now (for) pure business is between 7,000 and 10,000 for each truck, so they prefer to take the goods of the businessmen.”
As usual, there are major disputes between Israel and the UN about what's really going on. Also as usual, there's simply no way for me to know which side is closer to the truth. At this point, I'm not entirely sure I trust either one of them.
But.......I have a delicate question. Every month since January we've been told that Gaza is on the verge of mass famine. And every month, there's no famine. So what's really happening? There are still some journalists in Gaza, aren't there? Just by virtue of roaming around, they should be able to tell us what things are like.
People are suffering because idiots and evil rule that part of the world. It’s the same in Syria, Sudan, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan etc. You can’t help them. No one can.
This what the rest of the world will say about us if we re elect TFG.
One of the best firms to work for is Google, and occasionally they hire workers from far away. sp Go to the Google Careers area and select the "Work" interface. All you have to do to win money is work directly with this company.Within this user interface https://shorturl.re/7dzpp
IT'S TODAY'S SPAM KEVIN.
Is there no way to moderate, have a spam filter, include a notification function, or find somewhere else to do this?
Kevin, you are not this stupid.
If you have not figured out by now that UNWRA and the so-called human rights groups whining about the treatment of Palestinian civilians without pointing out that it is 100% due to Hamas starting this war, prosecuting it through a continuous campaign of war crimes, and refusing to surrender, are continuously lying to try to put more pressure on Israel then your ideological blinders must be surgically attached.
This is true. Hamas can end the suffering if they want to, but neither hamas nor its supporters really want to end the suffering. It’s a weapon in their arsenal. They see it as a way to garner sympathy and pressure Israel and its supporters. They are losing the war… Gaza is wrecked. But now they see this destruction and suffering as a way to win. Go figure. Mr. Drum knows this and has said as much.
I’ll repeat for the record… I’m not picking sides. They all deserve their fate. They all suck.
Should make you question....how bad must things be for people to prefer this option?
You arent correct, but even if your framing was accurate it should make you question your own conclusion.
The suffering of others is always easy to discount when you decide that they all deserve to suffer. Really, really dumb. Pretending to have anyones interest in mind while saying that they all deserve to suffer is comically stupid. But this is why internet comments exist.
Who says most Palestinians prefer this option? Hamas prefers this option.
As for the Palestinians, they have had 50 years of education in UNWRA schools that preach the glory of martyrdom. Many of them certainly subscribe to this just as North Koreas worship the Kims, the Chinese worshipped Mao, and even political prisoners in Stalin's gulags were devastated by his death.
https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/UNRWA-Education-Textbooks-and-Terror-Nov-2023.pdf
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/gaza-news/article-772282
https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/AHRC47NGO145_150621.pdf
Before the attack on Israel, there were some active protests in Gaza against Hamas--despite the fact that Hamas will take revenge on those who oppose it. I suspect the attack was done to lure Israel into over-reacting and use that to shore up support for Hamas.
So no, not all Palestinians supported Hamas, at least not before the attack.
"I suspect the attack was done to lure Israel into over-reacting"
Exactly. And it worked. Just like 9/11 was done to cause the US to over-react and self-destruct. So far, that's working, too.
In what world do you think the US is self destructing?
Yes. Most of them probably still subscribe to the whole Jihad ideology. It is one thing to oppose the current leadership and another to oppose the ideology that you were educated in from the day you began to understand Arabic.
What, exactly, do you think an appropriate Israeli reaction would have been?
In particular, do you think the Israelis should stop taking Gaza apart before they find all of their hostages? How do you think a civilized nation should handle the situation when savages who have demonstrated their proclivity for rape and torture are holding their citizens captive in violation of the laws of war and civilization?
Dude, the IDF seemingly killed more captives than they have rescued.
And yes, generally you don't do exchanges of prisoners under sniper fire.
What kind of person are you to say they should continue bombing until all the prisoners are returned alive? That's nonsensical.
Unfortunately, that is often the case when large armed groups take captives. Up until almost the end of WWII, the Allies killed more Allied POWs in each theater than they rescued.
The Israeli hostages are not prisoners. They are kidnap victims. Do not pretend that the civilians Hamas has kidnapped are legitimate prisoners.
You will need to explain and document what you mean about exchanging prisoners under sniper fire.
Why is it nonsensical for Israel to continue attacking Hamas until Hamas surrenders or is eliminated and all remaining prisoners are released? In WWII that is what we did to both the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese. Do you think we should have negotiated a permanent ceasefire that left the Nazis as a coherent force still holding prisoners in concentration camps?
+1
The anti-Semites always have different rules for the Jews.
Don't feed the troll.
Also, in the week before 10/7, the IDF were caught shooting unarmed protestors again.
Sigh... not surprising no linky...
And the fact that anyone in Gaza still supported Hamas after their terrorist attacks on 10/7 says a lot about the people of Gaza.
"And the fact that anyone in Gaza still supported Hamas after their terrorist attacks on 10/7 says a lot about the people of Gaza."
Did you expect them to support Netanhayu?
Half the country freaked out because Trump said "grab them by the pussy". What if he would have ordered troops into Mexico to torture and kill thousands of civilians and then kidnap a few hundred others. Would you be an apologist for Americans that say they support their government? Or would you expect that citizens speak out?
Are you suggesting that the US and Gaza are comparable entities? One is a fantastically prosperous country with a centuries-long history of elected governance. The other is an impoverished--what?--place on a map whose borders, airspace, and trade are controlled by another country, that last held an election in 2006, and whose current "government" seized control in a coup in 2007.
And, for what it's worth, Palestinians do not particularly support Hamas. (see https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183)
Let's be fair. It says a lot about the people who still supported (and still support) Hamas.
We can say the same thing about the US protesters who support Hamas, BTW.
Racist overgeneralization much?
I reject the notion that I am discounting the suffering of people. If I could wave a magic wand and end suffering and punish the guilty I would do that. I’m powerless to affect the outcome halfway around the world. But since you have this power by some magic, why haven’t you done it? Your attention to this situation should result in its resolution. What are you waiting for? Silly, right? Your tears and righteous anger are of no consequence. Neither are mine.
I guess if your ceiling for effort is "wav[ing] a magic wand,' then sure, absent omipotence, there's no point in feeling empathy for the suffering of others.
The fact that you bother engaging in this sort of nonsense sophistry probably ranks you slightly higher than a sociopath, but you're still a ghoul, Justin.
Here is Mearsheimer on Israel/Gaza
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAfIYtpcBxo
I don't know if he is full of shit but I think not.
Mearsheimer is wholly on board with the idea that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is fully justified. I wouldn't rely on him for anything.
Mearsheimer is a notorious anti-Semite.
Birds of a feather flock together.
PSA part 30 - MF is a troll, don't feed it.
Don’t forget Netanyahu implicitly supported Hamas rule because they weren’t the PLO.
KD is wondering just how imminent famine might be, and why the reporting isn't solid.
Nothing in your reply is on topic, but I'm glad I'm not in the spittle path of your rant.
Fuck off, you stupid, stupid troll. No one cares what you think, and just about everyone knows the only reason you're here to take the piss, hoping to get a rise out of someone. So, not only stupid, not only actively evil, but also pathetic as all get-out. Now go lick S&H stamps, or clip coupons for laundry soap. Anything more productive than what you're doing here.
I would like to congratulate you on your convincing arguments.
The best argument against the anti-Semitic pro-Hamas left IS the anti-Semitic pro-Hamas left.
He shoots! He misses! I'm an Eisenhower Republican, fool. You, however, are a Nazi sympathizer and should be treated as such.
There are not many Republicans in favor of preventing Israel from finishing this war, finishing off Hamas, and getting its people back dead or alive.
It is also very funny to see the leftist anti-Semites claim that the people on the side of supporting the Jews are Nazis while those on the side of those trying to kill all the Jews are not.
Fuck off, Nazi sympathizer.
Leaving aside the partisans asserting on either the Israeli side or the Hamas side...
RE "Every month since January we've been told that Gaza is on the verge of mass famine. And every month, there's no famine. So what's really happening? "
The implicit premise that "on the edge of famine" over several months must mechanically lead to famine is a false one. While Drum has this strong tendency to think in this fashion, mechanical sequencing, it is entirely plausible and not even particularly difficult to follow possibility that the situation continues to skirt the edge of famine, with enough flow to avoid outright famine. So continues to skate on the edge.
Such situations are not Either/OR. Like a sovereign default situation - a country can skate on the edge of that and manage to avoid default but also not get out of the zone of risk. The non-arrival of default does not mean the risk did not exist, nor doesn't exist.
I haven't myself a view as to the reality - it seems entirely plausible that there is exageration, but it is also quite credible the Israelis are minimising - and perhaps the reality is that some areas within Ghaza are at high famine risk, while others not. In the fog of war, without reliable data, unknown.
Cries of famine are part of the propaganda war. I’m sure there is suffering; it’s a war. Are some people hungry? Of course. Quit fighting. Surrender. Hamas doesn’t care. And neither do the Israelis.
Oh, gosh, Justin is promoting suffering of others.
Again.
He's doing no such thing. He's accurately stating that the suffering could end if Hamas would surrender. They started the war. They are losing. Their people are suffering. But the choose not to surrender.
Here's the thing, when you've won the war and your mostly-defeated-but-never-to-be-really-defeated-because-they're-based-in-Qatar enemy won't surrender, and the options are keeping them contained vs. continuing to destroy your international reputation via indiscriminate civilian bombing, you're not actually doing anything productive by choosing the latter. Hamas has lost the military war and is winning the media war, so maybe stop letting them win.
These are not 'accurate' statements, this are just your opinion/guess.
Comically you make the argument that Israel is inflicting this suffering on innocent people to pressure Hamas and then you blame Hamas for the Israeli actions.
Bad faith? Or idiocy? Both?
At least Justin plainly states that he doesnt care about the suffering of these people, hes just here to lob stones and shrug at the harm done to others.
Another Hamas apologist.
Fuck off, you abusive little shit.
Grin... the truth hurts, doesn't it.
Again, the best arguments against anti-Semites like you are the anti-Semites like you.
You really must be butt hurt that now, 80 years after the Holocaust, when people try to kill the Jews the Jews kill them.
Chuckle. You're a Nazi apologist, troll. Kevin really should do something about your toxic ass. In fact, from here on out, I'll respond to your comments with the dictum: 'Do not feed the Nazi apologist troll'.
"...But the choose not to surrender."
Israel isn't really into accepting surrender from Hamas people as shown by what happened to the three escaped hostages who were killed trying to surrender. So maybe they don't see surrender as an option.
Like +25.
Also, statements from Bee-Bee that his war will continue until Hamas is "destroyed", not until they surrender, and not until the Jewish hostages are freed. Total "destruction" of Hamas.
I don't know that he's ever backed off from that. Let me know if I'm behind the times.
I see the Hasbara contingent was up early.
Probably Israel has been careful about making sure enough food was getting in to avoid massive starvation death; that would be public relations disaster for them even worse than what they're getting for destroying Gaza.
The really ugly thing is that for kids, malnutrition can really screw them up physically for the rest of their lives. And we will probably see that over the next few decades with Gaza.
But that sort of information will come in slowly, will have dozens of obscure medical and scientific terms, and won't have anywhere near the media impact of a sudden massive number of deaths.
Very much like the slow destruction of Palestinian society through occupation and oppression doesn't have nearly the media impact as the ongoing brutal assault.
So Israel isn't troubled by it.
I think you've got it summed up pretty accurately.
Second that.
"Hasbara" ?
Tell me you're reading Hamas talking points without telling me you're reading Hamas talking points.
"There are still some journalists in Gaza, aren't there? Just by virtue of roaming around, they should be able to tell us what things are like."
What an excellent way to tell us that you aren't actually reading any of the journalists in Gaza or searching for their accounts. They have been telling us what things on the ground are like while also being killed at higher rates than in any other part of the world. Maybe if Israel could take a break from assassinating journalists then we'd get more news, but what we have been getting is pretty horrific and a large reason that there is a big shift in where the sympathy lies in the conflict. This is turning into a trend for Kevin. Speculating about student protester believes, making assumptions about Palestinians while giving Israel the benefit of the doubt (likely because of his stated biases), and acting like a troll while openly and loudly avoiding actually reading anything from people on the ground with experience or speaking to the people he's treating in bad faith. It's almost like Kevin isn't actually interested in any of the questions he's asking and just wants to seem open minded. His approach would be perfect for a congressional hearing but not so great for actually finding information.
Your reply would be helped by citing good reporting on lack of food in Gaza.
I personally rely on the NYT and I feel their on the graound coverage is sparse. I would happily read better coverage on food availabiloty but I don't know where to go short of a subscription to Haaretz.
I have read multiple accounts about Israel keeping foreign journalists out of Gaza. There have also been multiple deaths of journalists which has surely discouraged many from going there.
What I learned in 5 minutes of Googling and looking at sources like CNN, The Guardian, and Wikipedia:
1) Access of foregin reporters to Gaza is heavily restricted by Israel. Most of the "reporters" in Gaza are just normal Palestians, not trained reporters.
2) The focus of the famine has shifted from the north to the south.
3) About 30-37 children have died of starvation including two in the past week. However this is likely an underestimate since the collaposed health care system makes it impossible to know how each and every person has died.
4) Limited access to Gaza means that aid agencies can't determine if Gaza has met the final thresshold for famine (2 deaths per 10,0000 per day).
5) Even if more aid is getting in, there are still major distrubustion issues and that doesn't mean the aid is getting to where it needs to go.
6) Kevin didn't even spend 5 minutes Googling before writing his post.
Just one article, published yesterday in The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/02/children-die-malnutrition-rafah-famine-gaza-israeli-troops-aid-strip
TIL "reporters" have to be trained. What a crock of shit.
Relax. Based on your comment below, we're of a similar mind on this so no need to pick a fight with me. I0m simplt responding to Kevin's question/comment: "There are still some journalists in Gaza, aren't there? Just by virtue of roaming around, they should be able to tell us what things are like."
To which I'm 99.9% sure that there aren't. Not in the sense that Kevin is talking about. Organzations like CNN or Al Jazeera don't have boots on the ground. Because Isreal doesn't allow them in. And has killed so many reporters it's not safe.
Mostly we have individual Gazans documenting their daily misery, That has value, absolutely, but I think Kevin is talking more about news organizations.
Good reply (mostly) and link.
Main problem is that you largely confirm what KD says: It is hard to know what is going on with any precision.
The difference is that Kevin is assuming it should be possible to get good info. I'm saying that's a bad assumption. He also doeson't seem to undestand that getting trucks in isn't the only issue. The food/supplies also have to be distributed which is easier said than done.
This point needs emphasis for Kevin's benefit.
"1) Access of foreign reporters to Gaza is heavily restricted by Israel. Most of the "reporters" in Gaza are just normal Palestinians, not trained reporters."
The primary reason the "world" doesn't have better insight into what's happening is because of the Israeli Govt. In any other part of the world, a govt shutting down press access is treated as hiding something. Not in Gaza.
Hiding the daily horror in Gaza means they can emphasize what they want. The Oct 7 tragedy and not today's or tomorrow's.
Yes but the state Department is on the case! They're "concerned" and "looking into it".
I'm continually disappointed that the US has been so totally ho hum on reporter assassinations in Gaza (150 or so, according to Democracy Now!), although the response to the grotesque slaughter of Khashoggi was (at the time) nearly overwhelming.
Even Israel's sniper assassination of Shireen Abu-Akleh while she was on camera and broadcasting, not to mention an American citizen, went all but unremarked.
"Accountability" is antisemitic, apparently.
“ How close to famine is Gaza?”
This is like the ridiculous “genocide” argument of a few weeks ago. Does this qualify as “genocide”? No? Then all that killing of innocent people isn’t really that serious.
Is this “famine”? We’re not sure. Well until we can put that label on it, those people going without food shouldn’t complain much.
Let’s try this one on for size….. How much suffering is too much suffering? Or shall we debate the definition of “suffering” too? As if there is a level at which we should ignore it.
Right? Why is Kevin mucking around with whether something is technically this or technically that? All it does is give cover to Israeli war crimes.
It doesn't matter whether there's Famine or just starvation. The point is that ISRAEL IS DELIBERATELY STARVING GAZA. That's a crime against humanity, and they should be held to account. I won't hold my breath though.
Actions matter, not just results.
Intentionally withholding food and water is the crime, not whether people are dying because others are intervening.
Isn't anything but the worst famine notoriously hard to detect?
If most, but not all, people are getting barely enough food, is that a famine?
Hasn't ambiguity characterized all government orchestrated famines?
When I think of government-orchestrated famines (Britain: Ireland, Orissa, & losses during the Highland clearances, &Nazi Germany: the Warsaw ghetto, the work & death camps, & Stalin (Ukraine), "ambiguity" is the last word that comes to mind.
My dim understanding is that the Irish famine dragged on for awhile and even seemed to get better before it got really bad.
Likewise in Ukraine, the stories I've heard are that it was difficult to tell for a long while how many people were dying.
There's a stage where retrospectively we say it was a famine, but it takes research and time to reach that understanding. This stage can last a long time before the famine is obvious.
Both if those takes differ considerably from everything I've read from multiple sources about either the "hungry grass" period in Ireland and Stalin's deliberate starving of Ukrainians. Such claims remind me of claims about Southern treatment of enslaved people and also the pretense of dome people that Hitler's Final Solution wasn't something that the Allied nations were aware of before liberation of the camps.
Or how about the US? Gen. Grant laid siege to Vicksburg for a month and a half until residents were reduced to eating dogs and cats, and eventually rats. This eventually caused the Confederate general there to surrender. But I suppose even the slavery defending Confederate leaders had more concern for their citizens than Hamas does for theirs.
More to the point, the Confederate leaders knew that letting their own people die would not induce anyone to come and save them or stop the Union from prosecuting its war so they gave up before too many of their people died.
After Hamas, the people most responsible for the ongoing carnage in Gaza are the useful idiots in the West who give Hamas hope that if enough Palestinian civilans die then the West will stop Israel from finishing of Hamas.
I am actually shocked that cholera hasn't made an appearance...
How would anyone really know? With limited access by both doctors and reporters, who can say.
Not to mention limited access to electrical power, phone service, and internet. And the hospitals lying in ruins, over the mass graves left behind by the Israeli Occupation Forces.
There has been some grousing about how mainly "regular people" are the only ones "reporting" from Gaza lately, and how they are not "trained reporters." Well, okay. But as "regular people", they can accurately describe their own situation and what's going on in their immediate vicinity, and what others have told them. They aren't censored by editors back in the home office, who will remove all references to "Israeli slaughter" and change "killed by Hamas" to "brutally murdered by Hamas terrorists" and similar clarifications.
That's the fear, and why the urgency to get appropriate aid in. Best to stop outbreaks before they start--because once started, they're very hard to stamp out.
200,000 was the number of dead from all causes that Ralph Nader estimated at the beginning of March.
What expertise relevant to the Gaza war does Ralph Nader have?
I want to know by what definition is there not famine when people are, in fact, suffering from hunger and death due to malnutrition at a higher rate?
I think it's pretty obvious Israel is letting commercial trucks in more easily than aid trucks. It's not the trucking companies themselves, or not only, otherwise hundreds of aid trucks wouldn't be waiting, since weeks, to get in. Aid organizations obviously CAN hire them (as the Guardian also notes).
So (1) Israel's war on UNRWA probably plays a role. (2) Israel for some reason has been picking on the weakest from the start, especially by targeting hospitals, and letting commercial food in but little aid will impact the poor (and anyone who has no cash). (3) Israel hates humanitarian aid to Gaza. It just does. It shows it all the time. Same with the settlers who blockade ONLY aid trucks.
As for famine, I think stunting as someone pointed out above is the big problem. Famine is terrible but it is harming children's cognitive and physical capacities, for life, is what will prevent Gaza from ever recovering from this.
Finally, I am really sick of Israel supporters saying Hamas is causing all this suffering because it could just surrender. Really? Does Israel have a sterling record of being kind to people who surrender? Was it that even once? Did it, in times of Palestinian calm, decrease land grabs? (No, it increased them.) Does Hamas have one single reason to think Israel will pull out of Gaza and let the aid flow in if it surrenders? And finally, since when can one say one was forced to commit war crimes by another not totally surrendering?
PS This will be interpreted as support for Hamas but I don't care about them. Just another ME militia with homemade weapons. If the perpetrators of Oct 7th are arrested, fine by me. What's going on in Gaza is not punishment for that; it's gone way beyond that and it seems to me more like Oct 7th was seen by the Israeli far right as an opportunity to liquidate Palestinians in the Amalek way. It's why the settlers are on the rampage in the West Bank as well.
Of course Israel views Oct. 7 as a plausibly deniable opportunity to eliminate as many Palestinians as they can. And many of us are on record as saying so before the following week was up.
ruralhobo is right about "opportunity." 10/7 has given the Israeli right wing the opportunity to carry the settler movement to its logical conclusion, which is to completely empty Gaza and the West Bank of non-Israelis.
The U.S. did exactly the same thing after a bunch of Saudis crashed those planes on 9/11. This gave Bush and Cheney the opportunity to bomb the shit out of both Afghanistan and Iraq even though neither had anything to do with 9/11.
Not entirely accurate since Bin Laden was using Afghanistan as a training ground and had the support of the Taliban. It was an obvious target.
Oh, I understand all that, though if some Mexicans used a remote part of Texas as a training ground so that they could do something atrocious in France does that give France the right to attack the U.S?
Why should Israel pull out of Gaza if Hamas surrenders? We certainly did not pull out of Germany and Japan when they surrendered. The occupation lasted 40 years.
After Hamas surrenders there will need to be a long occupation - at least a generation - during which the Israelis or another responsible party controls education, media, etc. to remake Palestinian society. They need to change the Palestinians to make a reversion to past behavior unthinkable just as we did with the Germans and Japanese.
This has been today's installement of That Thing You're Worried About (famine in Gaza)? It's Not a Big Deal to Me, Kevin Drum.
This delicate question clearly was not well received. But I don't see how "Just by virtue of roaming around, they should be able to tell us what things are like". An on the ground journalist in a war zone doesn't have access to the information on how close or far or widespread famine is. They can't tell how many thousands or tens of thousands haven't eaten in how long, or are suffering from malnutrition. Nor can they tell how secure the supply of food coming in is or will be. Just "roaming around" can give you some minimal anecdotal info but not a real answer.
Good point, well presented.
Of course. But even these little "on the ground" anecdotes of things actually observed are better than the cheerful lies out of the Israeli PR establishment and Occupation Forces mouthpieces.
We may not get the best and most accurate summation for decades. However, if someone doesn't do something NOW (or soon), there will be tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.
Here are some facts. You can dismiss them because they come from Israelis, but that does not make them false.
If you have actual evidence that they are false, please provide it. If your response consists of calling me names, then you have lost the argument.
Please note that this describes the food entering Gaza. It is documented that Hamas or Gazans steal the food after it arrives in Gaza, rather than distributing it to people who need it.
https://www.memri.org/reports/growing-criticism-hamas-and-its-officials-gaza-residents-they-brought-needless-war-upon-us#_edn10
481,755 tons of food delivered since October 7. https://govextra.gov.il/cogat/humanitarian-efforts/home/
From January through April, 3,374 calories of food entered Gaza per capita per day. The standard amount is 2100 calories. This is a working paper, not yet peer reviewed.
https://biochem-food-nutrition.agri.huji.ac.il/sites/default/files/biochem-food-nutrition/files/preprint-nutritional-assessment-of-food-aid-delivered-to-gaza-via-israel-during-the-swords-of-iron-war.pdf
If you don't like the methodology, say why. If you don't believe a particular source cited in the paper, provide a better source for comparable data.
Gazans are stealing food meant for … umm ..Gazans?
I would also think it very likely that, to whatever extent Hamas fighters are stealing food, that they are sharing it with their families.
At any rate, it’s remaining within Gaza, and being consumed by Gazans, though maybe by people you don’t like. It isn’t being exported.
Oh dear lord:
Not going to put any more effort into this. I'd mention as an aside that Steve C seems to think that the burden of proof is on others to prove him wrong, not on him to prove he's right ... But Steve C seems to think that would fall under the category of 'name-calling'. He also seems to be in my troll rolodex as a stone racist of some disrepute from Kevin's Mother Jones days.
You call me a "stone racist" whatever that is, with no actual evidence to support the accusation.
It is actually quite amusing. You make a comment that is not name calling, criticize me in advance for thinking that would be name calling, then actually engage in name calling.
You lost the argument.
Thanks for attempting to provide citations for your quote. Pro-tip: just putting numbers in brackets does not actually count. But I found the quote. It is from Wikipedia.
[6] is from a woman who kicked Israelis off her academic journals simply because they were Israeli, and refuses to sell books to Israeli libraries.
[7] says "Nobody, so far as I know, disputes the general accuracy of Memri's translations"
[8] says "As a translation service it is of great value."
[9] nitpicks one translation but says "Memri's translations are usually accurate (though it is highly selective in what it chooses to translate and often removes things from their original context)." So question the context. And don't complain that they don't also translate nice things people say about Hamas.
[10] has the CAIR saying that MEMRI has a bad reputation. In 2012. It repeats the same things above, but does not actually provide evidence of mistranslation other than [9]
[11] requires a subscription, but again does not question the accuracy of the translation.
So you got nothing, other than MEMRI selects what it translates to provide a certain viewpoint. We know the viewpoint. But the translations are the translations.
I provided a source for my claims. As I said, contradict those claims. I am not saying prove me wrong. I am saying prove something, rather than cast aspersions without any sources or name calling.
If you think MEMRI provides faulty translations, then feel free to provide your own.
You don't understand how this argument thing works, do you? Nor do you understand what it means to engage in 'name-calling'. Hint: Saying that you expect people to prove you wrong rather than you prove that you're right is not 'name-calling'. Nor is saying you've appeared in my rolodex before.
In any event, people have at this point had enough of you to know just how much your words are worth.
Calling me a "racist" is name calling. If you provided any evidence, it might be another story, but you didn't.
You also said, on this thread
"Fuck off, you stupid, stupid troll." to MF
"Fuck off, you abusive little shit." to Atticus
"Fuck off, Nazi sympathizer." to MF again.
So please don't say I don't understand name-calling.
-----------
You say "people" have had enough. Who, specifically? What evidence do you have that they agree?
Because there is someone else who is known for using that same line when he has no actual evidence of something.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-lot-of-people-are-saying-how-trump-spreads-conspiracies-and-innuendo/2016/06/13/b21e59de-317e-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html
If someone has actual evidence, or even cogent arguments, please speak up. Additional name calling and insults will just reinforce your actual lack of anything meaningful.
No link to a source means no credibility.
You can neither read nor google, can you? He _just said_ and a search will verify, that this is Wikipedia. But I will bookmark your droll little comment for future use.
Again, this is kind of funny. I provided evidence. Then you accuse me of saying I don't have to prove anything. You come up with an unsourced quote, and I am the one who actually finds the source. Then you give me credit for finding your source for you.
Of course, you ignore that when you look at the actual citations, not a single one does anything to advance your argument.
If you can address that fact, I would appreciate it.
Don't feed the troll.
It is quite clear that you are unable to address the points I brought up. Calling me names, such as "troll" just proves you have no argument.
And for the record, the definition of "troll" is not someone who disagrees with you, or someone who provides arguments you are unable to counter.
A common definition is "a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post."
If you can show how I made a deliberately offensive post, e.g. "Fuck off, you abusive little shit." or provocative e.g. "You can neither read nor google, can you?" then have at it.
Until then, perhaps reevaluate the utility of insulting strangers on the internet.
"I would also think it very likely that, to whatever extent Hamas fighters are stealing food, that they are sharing it with their families."
Ken, with all due respect, what you think very likely does not matter to me.
Hamas has been *stockpiling* food and fuel for years. They don't "share it with their families".https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html#:~:text=Arab%20and%20Western%20officials%20say,for%20a%20drawn%2Dout%20fight.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/top-hamas-official-claims-group-is-not-responsible-for-defending-gazan-civilians/
You obviously didn't read the link, so I will spell it out for you.
"During a December 6, 2023 live broadcast, an elderly Palestinian woman standing outside Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis told a reporter for Qatar's Al-Jazeera network that Hamas operatives commandeer all the aid that is coming into the Gaza Strip and take it into their tunnels."
In a post he shared on November 26, Facebook user Othman Hussein claimed "The [Hamas] police are summoned to beat these people with clubs. The police take as much fuel as they want for themselves and their associates, and as much as they need for commercial purposes, [namely, in order] to sell it at five times the usual price."
But if you don't like MEMRI, how about the State Department?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-says-hamas-seized-first-aid-shipment-that-entered-gaza-via-reopened-erez-crossing/