Ezekiel Emanuel says we've been too damn easy on people:
How can we increase vaccinations? Mandates.
Vaccines should be required for health care workers and for all students who plan to attend in-person classes this fall — including younger children once the vaccine is authorized for them by the Food and Drug Administration.
Employers should also be prepared to make vaccines mandatory for prison guards, E.M.T.s, police officers, firefighters and teachers if overall vaccinations do not reach the level required for herd immunity. Short of a mandate, these workers should be reminded that these vaccines have proved safe and are important not only for their health, but for the health of those they deal with in their jobs.
Let me be clear. If I were your benevolent overlord I would create a huge army of jackbooted thugs who would go house to house and vaccinate everyone whether they wanted it or not. Then they'd tattoo your forehead to make sure everyone knew.¹
Short of that, though, I think mandates are a fine idea. At the federal level, I suppose it could only affect federal employees, but at the state level it could affect everyone. The Supreme Court has said so. Red states wouldn't do it, of course, but that's their problem. Here in blue state territory I'd support a vaccination mandate in a heartbeat. Basically you'd have a choice: Either prove that you have a legitimate medical exemption or pay a $1,000 fine if you refuse to get vaccinated. Don't like it? Tough.
¹Note to conservatives: this is a joke.
William F. Buckley, Jr. famously advocated tattooing the HIV-positive.
Now right-wingers whine if someone won’t serve their whiny Typhoid Donnie butts without showing proof of vaccination.
There are going to be a lot of legal battles over this, and it will probably end up before the Supreme Court at some point.
The issue is that there are zero regularly approved covid-19 vaccines. Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J have "Emergency Use Authorization" only. The statute that established "Emergency Use Authorization" states that individuals have the right to refuse it. The military tried to mandate an EUA Anthrax vaccine and got sued by active duty soldiers. The courts were about to side with the soldiers, and so the military backed off an made it voluntary only.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20210212.410237/full/
That is correct. The reason why there's no mandate anywhere yet is that all of the vaccines are under EUA, none are formally approved yet. I have heard that the DOD will require military members to get the vaccine once any are formally approved but will not yet probably due to the experience with the Anthrax vaccine.
Interestingly the DOD seems to have plenty of doses for the DC area, my agency is now offering all civilians and contractors working onsite the ability to make an appointment at the nearby military hospital to get the vaccine.
Interesting distinction between emergency use and full approval that I was wondering about but have not heard. Thanks.
FYI, Moderna reportedly is close to getting that approval for its vaccine. The others won't be far behind, so it may soon be a moot point.
I would institute a universal COVID health care fee. Everyone pays X dollars to support health care for COVID patients. With evidence of vaccination, you can obtain a credit equal to the fee. A rebate of sorts.
Have the IRS distribute the credits and you'll have Chief Justice Roberts on board: It's not a fee, its a tax!
Call it a tip.
It would be better to have the jack booted thugs tattoo the forehead of all those who refused the vaccination.
If someone doesn't get vaccinated, why is that any skin off the back of people that are vaccinated? If they want to risk it, why would we care? I'm fully vaccinated. I could care less if I'm around someone that isn't vaccinated. I can't get get covid. (Ok, there's a ~5% chance I could but even then it would be a very minor case since the vaccines are 100% effective against cases causing hospitalization or death.)
It's important for a few reasons:
* Some people can't get vaccinated for real medical reasons (suppressed immune systems, etc.), so the best way to reduce their risk is to have the largest possible pool of vaccinated people.
* Unvaccinated people represent a breeding pool for the virus, and hence mutations. It would not be great if a strain emerged that was largely resistant to the vaccines. Yes, we can engineer booster shots to cope, but it'd be nice to not have to do that very often
+ + +
👍🏽
The fewer people vaccinated, the higher the residual case rate.
The higher the residual case rate, the higher the rate of mutations of the virus.
The higher the rate of mutations of the virus, the higher the likelihood of the emergence of a vaccine-resistant strain.
That's the skin off your back.
plus +++
Atticus, your understanding of the odds in playing Russian Roulette is truly astounding. "Why should I worry, it's only 5%?" Also, your rounding of 99% to 100%, and thinking that means zero chance of death. Also your comprehension (or lack thereof) of the concept of "herd immunity" as an attribute of the total population that protects all the members of the population.
"If someone doesn't get vaccinated, why is that any skin off the back of people that are vaccinated?"
It isn't about protecting the vaccinated, it is about protecting those who can't get vaccinated for a medical reason.
If someone doesn't get vaccinated, why is that any skin off the back of people that are vaccinated?
For the same reason that school districts have traditionally required proof of immunizations for enrollment of children: vaccines aren't 100% effective, and therefore encouraging herd immunity is a necessary aspect of sound public health policy. In short, you're safer if both you and your neighbor are vaccinated than if only you are.
“Red states wouldn't do it, of course, but that's their problem.” It’s also a Blue state problem unless they close their borders.
$1k fine is too low, and when conservatives refuse to pay it anyway you can throw them in jail where they're more likely to contract it.
After the first few get a lot of publicity wingnuts everywhere will be thinking a different thought.
Trump got Covid and spent a couple of days in the hospital. Other prominent conservatives got Covid and some died. This did not change the behavior or attitudes of conservatives on this subject that I am aware of.
Because none of them were facing the prospect of being tossed in jail with 'inner city criminals', as one capitol rioter recently put it.
Economic anxiety is real.
Questions of where the Supreme Court has ruled that issues of national interest are the independent province of state governments are one of the primary reforms that need to be addressed, and the only reason they can't be is the foundational corruption of the Senate and the Electoral College.
Anti-maskers protest local library for making 'health and safety' its 'highest priority',
https://www.rawstory.com/anti-maskers-protest-local-library-for-making-health-and-safety-its-highest-priority/
I'm sure none of these characters will mind at all if I whack them in the face with a bat because their health and safety is an obviously lower value than my ability to do that to them.
I have suggested to my HR person (not department, smallish company) that when we have a vaccine day, one was scheduled until the J&J pause, that it should be a Thursday. Then give everyone that gets the vaccine, and those that have already gotten it (card check) Friday off with pay. I think that incentive would work for many of our resistant workforce.
Great idea. I think the J&J vaccine will become "unpaused" pretty soon as the issues are very rare and the word is out now who to properly treat the clotting issue.
Federal employees get four hours admin leave to go get the vaccine.
Great idea!
Why not use the carrot instead of the stick? Pass another stimulus package (via reconciliation so only 50+1 votes needed) with personal stimulus checks contingent on getting vaccinated. Goes for adults as well as children. Free money for making the country safer. What's not to like? Instead of "anti-vax", this is an "anti-tax" ! If still too weak a community response, incrementally increase the incentive until the response is sufficient for herd immunity but after point is reached all you get is your vaccination free of charge - so don't be a laggard and let the "other guy" get the bonus you could have earned.
This is actually a great idea. $500 to every American who gets fully vaccinated. Comes with a "vaccine passport". I love it.
In fact, you can go one notch further and make it like a free lottery. Each week, all newly-vaccinated people are entered into a lottery for $1 million bucks. (You can even make it retroactive so no one feels ripped off for already being vaccinated.) Heck, you may even be able to get a few states to jump in with a matching program. The publicity campaigns practically write themselves: "Why play Russian Roulette when you can play a Living Lottery?"
Two excellent ideas.
Until a vaccine is available from grade school-aged children, I'd like to see a vaccine mandate for all parents in order to allow their kids to enter school this fall.
Next year when a child vaccine is available the mandate can be changed to just the kid, along with every other vaccine they're already required to have for enrollment.
There's also the possibility of private sector "mandates."
So-called conservatives who normally revere the market seem strangely nonplussed at the prospect of Marriott, Yankee Stadium or JetBlue declining to do business with antivaxxers (in the middle of a deadly plague, no less!).
I say no shirt, no shoes, no service.
*Yes, obviously such mandates wouldn't really be tenable until everyone who wants a vaccine can get one; and yes, exceptions have to be made for the genuinely medically exempt.
Red states wouldn't do it, of course, but that's their problem.
I'm sure Kevin realizes, that, absent internal borders, antivaxxer sentiment in red states is very much our problem, too.
As your Benevolent Dictator, I would segregate COVID-19 treatment hospitals into RED/BLUE hospitals and let people take personal responsibility in choosing which hospitals they'd be treated at.
RED Hospital: Unlicensed doctors and nurses using Hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, and any other treatment requested by the patient, paid for by the patient completely out of pocket, until at which time Your Benevolent Dictator may or may not approve of your application for partial reimbursement for treatment without prior approval.
BLUE Hospital: Licensed doctors and nurses using recommended CDC and FDA guidelines to treat patients, paid for by the government, aka Your Benevolent Dictator's mandate that you pay your taxes.
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