A "Gang of Ten," if you will, has made a counteroffer to President Biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus bill:
Ten Republican senators are set to meet with President Biden on Monday to push a much smaller alternative to his $1.9 trillion stimulus bill to address the toll of the pandemic, including scaling back another round of direct payments from the government.
The coalition of mostly centrist Republican senators, led by Susan Collins of Maine, on Monday outlined their $618 billion plan, which they are billing as a way for Mr. Biden to pass a pandemic aid bill with bipartisan support and make good on his inauguration pledge to unite the country....After receiving a letter from the senators on Sunday requesting a meeting, Mr. Biden called Ms. Collins and invited her and the other signers to the White House, where they are scheduled to meet Monday evening.
This is drawing scorn from lots of progressive observers, but it shouldn't. This is precisely what Biden ran on, and a few days of back-and-forth will do no harm. The "lesson of 2009," conversely, is to avoid getting stuck in months of bad-faith negotiations.
That said, the Republican group is going to have to show some serious flexibility if they want to be taken seriously. Their plan takes a chainsaw to assistance for individuals and the unemployed, and there's no way that's a sustainable proposition. Biden's best strategy is to meet with them, talk with them, and then insist on a better proposal within a day or two. Meanwhile, there's no need for things to slow down in the House.
At first I thought this was just Biden calling the Republican's bluff. And I think it is to a certain extent. But, it's also Biden being true to his nature. He truly believes that bipartisanship can happen these days.
I'm not optimistic at all, but it can't hurt. And, when Republicans like Cruz and Hawley shut down the 10 more centrist Senators we'll know for sure. It's a win win for Biden.
Thanks for letting us know you are here. Best wishes for success here and happiness in all your life. And thanks for including Hilbert and Hopper on the home page.
Republicans do not want Biden to accomplish anything that would work toward electoral success for him or Democrats in 2022, but they are compelled to put something on the table, regardless of its efficacy.
They used Collins to dilute the 2009 emergency stimulus bill, so this isn't new.
They may have spoken about some other things and that would have been more interesting than hearing them beg for Pres. Biden to be ineffectual and stupid. He isn't and won't bend to their stupid proposal.
From your mouth to Joe Biden's ears.
I have no problem with Biden talking to moderate Republicans (where these days "moderate" is defined as not bat shit crazy), but at the end of the day, he is going to get 0 Republican votes for an actually effective COVID relief package.
Then he should take the opportunity to thank them for coming and then get back to work on passing the relief bill with Democratic votes.
There may be other things to discuss. Discussion is good.
In an ideal world, they'll meet and hammer out something that is between Biden's original plan and the Republican's original plan. I'm perfectly fine with those at the higher income levels in Biden's plan not getting stimulus checks. That would, by the way, include me.
But Republicans have to show that being bipartisan doesn't mean accepting only what they want or propose. A little movement on both sides that could produce a package that would comfortably pass both houses would be a huge thing. And if the Republicans show a willingness to do that, Biden needs to hammer the more progressive wing of his party to accept it.
But there’s no room at all for compromise. The Republicans are really lowballing so to meet halfway (or make any concessions, really) would be Biden kneecapping himself and the Democrats in 2022. He’s got the votes, he needs to just get it done.
I disagree. As I noted, I don't think people at the higher end of the income eligibility for stimulus checks actuall needs those payments. There's room there. I'm also willing to bet that there is also some "fat" in each of the other buckets of money. Saying there is no room for compromise is a non-starter and just leads to more of the same.
The Republican offer is less than a third of what Biden’s proposing and there’s no commitment to support a final bill. This is a repeat of 2009 where time was wasted, the result was too small, and the Republicans ran against Obama saying that the recovery as too small and ineffective.
At most, Biden should have a cup of coffee with these people and the. Tell them to go fuck themselves.
Exactly. If the bill comes in at +1 dollar over their original proposal every one of these phonies will, in sorrow more than anger, be forced to vote against it.
It’s more than that. The Republican offer is so low that there’s really no possible counteroffer that Biden can make without looking like a weakling or a fool.
Let’s wait and see if it’s a time waster. It may not be. Going into it with that attitude doesn’t help. And expecting Republicans to give on everything is just as harmful to progress as them refusing everything.
Biden has until November 2022 to deliver the tangible results he promised. Every minute that the Republicans can make Biden waste puts them one step closer to taking back control of the Congress.
Nobody cares about process. People want results. I don’t care whether the Republicans participate in the process and in November saying that you left people to drown so that you could make them feel good about themselves isn’t going to cut it.
Progress is Biden passing his proposal. Republicans can vote for it or against it. But progress towards putting the country back on the right path doesn’t depend on their participation and their participation is worth exactly nothing.
Shorter Mitch ... "I'm the Progressive version of an intransigent Republican. It's my way or no way." And then throw a temper tantrum. I'm really kind of done with the absolutism of both sides.
I don’t think that a fair or accurate description of my reasoning. I’ve make it clear that I don’t believe that the Republicans are negotiating in good faith this time anymore than they were negotiating in good faith with Obama. The lesson I have drawn from the past is that if we want to avoid losing Congress in 2022 and the presidency in 2024 we need very much to avoid Obama’s hubris and his mistakes.
Also, as a practical matter, an opening bid which is less than one-third of the Democratic proposal really has no starting point for negotiating. It’s not a question of absolutism There’s simply no good response to a lowball offer except “no”.
Biden needs to shake everyone’s hand, give them some coffee and cake, and tell the Democrats in Congress full speed ahead to pass the Bill. If the Republicans wanted to negotiate, as opposed to waste time, they’d have made a serious proposal. They didn’t, so screw them.
Nobody knows if the Republicans are serious until the conversation actually happens. Meanwhile, passing major stimulus legislation without any serious attempt to get some Republicans on board is the very definition of hubris.
How many times does Lucy needs to pull the football away before you agree that there’s no a lot of good faith going on with those people ?
There are times when events occur that change the dynamic. The last four years and, in particular, the last few months might be one of those times. I’m willing to give them a chance and see if they’re serious. You’re not. You want to keep believing every last one of them is horrible and not to be trusted. I get it. Life is easier that way. But it’s not reality.
I would be curious to know what you think has changed within the Republican Party that would justify the belief that this time they might be negotiating in good faith? I saw nothing during the presidential campaign. And I see even less in their response to an actual insurrection in which the Capital itself was sacked and a police officer was murdered.
But also, if they are negotiating in good faith, why would they make a lowball offer?
You’re focusing on the party and not on the individuals. This is a fundamental problem in America today. Anybody with an R next to their name is evil. Within the right wing, anybody with a D next to their name is evil. It’s a fallacy that just feeds into the oversimplified criticisms each have for the other. I prefer to look at the ten individuals who put this together and give them a chance to prove they are serious about working through these kinds of issues. Most, if not all, of these ten were outraged at the events of 1/6. I have a small amount of hope we can use that to create a new dynamic. But if we simply reject their overtures as you would like to do, we have no hope for that.
Actually, I’m focusing on the 2022 midterms. This is an almost letter perfect reply of the performance that prolonged the recession and turned Obamacare into an albatross around Democrats necks for so long. I outsource my last word a man with a real knack for words:
“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”
― George W. Bush
It’s people like you that create things like the after effect of the break up of Yugoslavia. And the impossibility of even trying to change the dynamic of our toxic political environment. You’re also mischaracterizing why Dems lost in the 2010 midterms.
Never mind that your latest comment completely misses my point.
We’re going around in circles.
When Biden introduced his proposal, he made it clear that there is a big hole in the economy to be filled, and most economists favor a big bill. Biden also said if the Republicans could point out where the bill was excessive to need, he would work with them. Instead, they just proposed filling a canyon with a teaspoon, out of a concern for deficits we hadn’t heard in four years. They made no effort to show how their proposal meets the need. How many reputable economists have backed it?
We don't know yet if there's room for compromise. The Republicans opening offer is a very poor one, considering the weakness of their position, but we don't yet know reasonable they're prepared to be, nor how hard a bargain the president is prepared to drive.
I'm confident that the president won't get played. And I'm happy to see him taking a meeting with the senators.
I'll be angry and disappointed if he gives away 2/3 of his plan in exchange for some votes he didn't actually need, but from where we stand now, there's no good reason to suppose he'll do that.
Republicans being republicans, I find it rather more likely that they'll find some way to blow up their own offer. Why not give them the opportunity to fit themselves for a black hat?
Because every minute of every day between now and the midterms is precious. It is results that count, not displays of reasonableness. Pass Biden’s bill today. He’s got the votes. Just pass the bill and keep going.
Eh. If they slow him for weeks, I'm with you. If it costs a couple days? That seems like a reasonable think to check out.
Also? It's not obvious that talking with those senators slows the bill down at all. The house has to move first anyway.
But it seems clear that the House is waiting on Biden. The time wasted is important because it helps the Republicans to stop Biden’s momentum. The Republicans haven’t done anything in good faith for at least thirty years yet each time a Democrat wins the White House they have broken his momentum and untracked his presidency in exactly this way. The Democrats need to learn this lesson and not surrender their power.
The other point is that to invite the Republicans to the White House after such a lowball offer is to show yourself as being a chump who’s easily played. The correct response is simply no and leave the next move to them.
I think it's "ideal world" territory only if it's very close to the 1.9 trillion original (say, no less than 1.5 trillion).
I have to assume Biden and his people are savvy enough to put out an initial figure that's larger than the one they think is really needed. But 600 billion is laughably inadequate. I'd guess in the end Dems do a reconciliation with zero GOP votes in either House. But we shall see.
Yes. I’d like to see if there is a willingness to negotiate and compromise rather than just assuming it’s pointless.
It's probably pointless, and I don't want to wait around to verify that. Biden ran on this proposal. He has said repeatedly that he wants to go big, and multiple crises require this large a response. Fed Chair Powell agrees. Sec. Treasury Yellen agrees. The money can be borrowed almost for free. Many economists agree. The people who voted for Biden deserve his best effort to deliver what he ran on. Republicans neutered Obama's response to the Republican recession of 2008, and the result was a very slow recovery. The "gang of ten" offer is not a serious one. It's just an excuse for them to say "We tried," without actually trying. Go see if you can buy a 60 thousand dollar car for $20k.
Only ten Republicans would sign on to a counteroffer that is less than 1/3 of Biden’s ask? I take this as an indication that the number willing to make a _reasonable_ compromise is zero. Let that be made clear, make the Republicans own their unreasonable demands, and then go the reconciliation route.
It'll be zero GOP votes in either chamber. They might have gotten a vote from Collins, but she doesn't have to dupe Maine centrists again until 2026.
testing, testing
Biden should say, "Come back when you have at least 17 senators."
And a opening offer that isn’t an insult.
There they go again, instead of plugging the hole, activating the bilge pumps, and heading for port, the Republicans bail with a coffee cup singing their shanty of Debt and Bootstraps.
+1 and yo-ho-ho
I think there's a little - very little - room for compromise, maybe on the $1400 relief check portion. Those 10 Republicans deserve at least a meeting. But time's awasting. Talk to the 10 Republicans at least pretending to be serious, and if they have can't come a lot closer to the original 1.9 trillion dollar package, send them packing and then flood every media outlet possible - go full Krugman - explaining why each part of the 1.9 trillion is important and why a package less than a third that size is not a serious effort.
Oh, Glad to see you here Kevin. I've been following you since 2002 and I'll continue following you here at your new digs. Cheers !
A show of reasonableness is Good PR.
Saying no, playing obvious ideological would be Bad PR.
This is exactly the thinking that costs the Democrats so dearly in every midterm election during the Obama era. The Democrats were so focused on being reasonable and on “compromise” for its own sake that they failed to deliver what the country wanted, particularly a large enough stimulus and justice for bankers.
The time between now and the midterms is too short for worrying about looking reasonable. Get stuff done. Improve people’s lives, get the pandemic under control, get the economy back on track, pass voting rights. Don’t worry about anything else.
Don't forget: even with a reconciliation bill they need every last Democrat. So it's possible Manchin or Sinema or whoever is pressuring Schumer and the White House to make a show of reasonableness. A long delay would be dangerous indeed. But a few days' delay at the behest of votes you can't lose in order to paint Republicans as unreasonable doesn't have to be a disaster.
I think that’s certainly a possibility. And it would justify such a meeting even though it’s a very bad showing of weakness (both in the sense of a poor negotiating strategy and that the Republican’s allies within the democratic party seem to be effective in starting to break Biden‘s momentum and to deliver the Congress to the Republicans in 2022).
If this is the case, a decision needs to be reached. It would appear that the Democrats will need a net pickup of two senate seats in 2022 to move forward with their agenda since clearly we would be better off by dumping Manchin and Sinema and turning voters in this’d states bluer.
If Manchin and Sinema are the problem, Biden’s in a tough spot. He’s like the gingerbread man who can’t run until he gets hot but can’t get hot until he runs.
Mitch,
I disagree. I mean you are correct that time is important but so is the politics. I think Biden meets with the 10. Seeing how it is unlikely that the 10 are serious, that they mostly don't understand that this is a relief bill meant to fill a huge hole for those Americans struggling to get by because of the pandemic and not a stimulus bill then this can become a teachable moment for the Biden administration to school the GOP. It's all about the optics, of showing that the GOP, even the supposedly centrist minority, does not understand what's going on; Biden and the Dems do. What Biden and company cannot do is let this drag out for weeks or months, on that I agree with you.
I would've agreed with you ten years ago. But optics doesn't put food on people's tables and that's what people need. Obama had a million teachable moments but he neither reached Republican senators nor was he willing to act unilaterally even when it became clear that there was no real choice.
Here's the Republican governor of West Virginia speaking to the urgency of the moment:
b-boy bouiebaisse Retweeted
Domenico Montanaro
@DomenicoNPR
·
4h
WV Republican Gov. Jim Justice on COVID relief on
@CNN
:
“If we throw away some money right now, so what!?” Says there are “people really, really hurting. We’ve got to move! ...
“There’s too much pain. There’s too much pain.” #COVID19
If the Democrats squander their moment then they deserve to lose in 2022 and 2024. This Republican proposal is about breaking Biden's momentum. We need to learn from Obama's mistakes, not repeat them.
I totally agree that the need is now so I'm not suggesting there be some long drawn out back and forth but I don't think the Obama moments were exactly analogous. The GOP with McConnell never gave Obama anything and he wound up bargaining with himself half the time and sometimes with just plain bad arguments - remember the Grand Bargain.
So far what we're hearing from the Biden admin. is a forceful argument, both specific/ policy based AND rhetorical, for a aggressive COVID relief bill based on very different assumptions from the ones "the ten" are making. This is a perfect moment to make that case but it's made better to the general public if it's made in conjunction with meeting with the supposed centrists AND THEN showing how their argument is hollow.
I think Biden's stuck having to take the meeting but it's not a good start. The Republicans came in with an absurd lowball offer and rather than rejecting it, Biden agreed to give them something of value (a meeting at the White House) in return for nothing.
He also left himself in a bad spot in terms of these and future negotiations because he show weakness and also by agreeing to further negotiations after the lowball offer he seriously limited himself—he's got no upside and no room to make more demands and he's created an expectation of a compromise. A very poor start.
If they have to go through reconciliation it's going to take over a month. If they can make a deal with these 10 Republicans they can get it done in a week.
Also, meeting with them doesn't actually use up any time. The House can still be writing the budget bill for the reconciliation process even while Biden is talking with the "Gang of 10".
So, yes, don't waste time and definitely don't give away the store. But if a good deal can be made quickly, then make it.
I think it’s a mistake to give the Republicans a meeting based on such a lowball offer. It’s a sign of weakness. And it’s not just a problem dealing with Republicans; that asshole Manchin wants to sink the Democrats in the midterms to keep his own power. A man like that can’t be dealt with from a position of weakness.
Meeting halfway gets us to just over one & a quarter trillion, but since Biden opened the discussion, he should get a bit more than that. Call it one & half.
Of course, odds of Poundfoolish the Klown from Maine negotiating in good faith are nonexistent, so just pass the 1.9 by Presidents Day.
Truly, then, Joe Biden can have Jen Psaki tell the press to eat shit -- that Joe Biden became president that day.
Does anyone take Susan Collins seriously anymore? Does she have some kind of chemistry with Biden? Test: will Charlie Brown let Lucy pull away the football again?
I take her very seriously- as someone whose judgment is either questionable or dishonest, as in her confidence that trump had learned a lesson - and as someone who simply cannot be trusted on any issue. Why would we trust her on any issue after her Kavanaugh & impeachment votes?
I strongly suspect that this is just the ol' Republican okey-doke again. This "frank & earnest" (plus Susan) group of GOP senators gets Biden to agree to replacing his ask with a truly miniscule bill. In place of the original, which everyone agreed was far too small, but might serve as a stopgap until some serious legislatin' could be done.
Then the Mendatious Group of Ten all vote "nay" with Mitch McConnell and his Merry Men. The pathetically inadequate thing might pass, if Joe Manchin can somehow be bought off, but it's a "partisan Democrat" thing. Furthermore, it once again shows the Dems as feckless and in the pockets of the GOP.
Big loser. I hope Biden and Schumer (Pelosi for sure) are sharp enough to figure this one out. It isn't as if McConnell hasn't been doing this voodoo for the last twelve years, right?
When you water the lawn you water the entire lawn, not just the one prettiest blade of grass.
A zen moment amid the political morass.
Pardon me for doubting their sincerity. However, I saw this movie before, when the Republicans sent people President Obama thought he knew to negotiate compromises in Obamacare. Obama and others big mistake was to give them the benefit of the doubt, and to believe in one nanosecond they were sincere in anything EXCEPT killing the program.
288 amendments offered and mostly accepted every single one of which was designed to degrade and discombobulate the program.
And after wasting 9 months, and interminable effort. NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN voted for the bill.
Have them over to the White House? Sure. Makes the previous incumbent look even smaller, meaner and more petty if possible. Listen respectfully? Absolutely. See previous comment.
Wait one danged minute for them? Nope, not in this life time.
#WeRememberWhatTheyDid