This is pretty brutal:
JUST IN: Judge HOWELL has ordered immediate enforcement of Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss’ judgment against Rudy Giuliani, contending they have ample reason to doubt he will make good on it. pic.twitter.com/C9Hl1gePNE
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) December 20, 2023
The jury in Rudy's case was instructed to assume that he was intentionally trying to hide his true wealth. They did, and decided he could afford a $148 million judgment. So now the judge has ordered him to pay up, fully and immediately.
Between this and the Fox/Dominion case, it almost makes me hopeful that we're coming to the end of an era. Is it possible that conservatives are no longer allowed to angrily spew anything they want, no matter how reckless and damaging, with no consequences?
"Is it possible that conservatives are no longer allowed to angrily spew anything they want, no matter how reckless and damaging, with no consequences?"
If the death penalty doesn't deter murderers, I doubt if asking someone to pay damages will change anything.
I doubt whether Rudi will ever pay a penny of that judgment. Neither will Alex Jones pay anything remotely like his entire net worth. The legal system is just not set up to force rich people to pay judgments and that’s why they’re difficult to collect. In particular, bankruptcy judges tend to cut rich scofflaws way too much slack even when the judgments are non-dischargeable.
Basically, the idea that people who are injured by conservatives will spend years of their lives and most of their resources to gain a purely symbolic victory is ridiculous. And conservatives know this and exploit the reality that they may get hit with a judgment but there’s no need to change their ways because the courts won’t let the plaintiffs collect.
bingo
yah
what are the processes and mechanisms used to enforce such a judgement? could something like a special master be assigned to find and seize assets?
also, when giuliani refused to turnover financial information the court ordered him to provide, why was he simply forced to pay some legal fees for the plaintiffs instead of forced to turn the information over or failed jail time for contemt?
I believe that he could have been but judges (and, indeed, the entire legal system) is neither designed nor capable of dealing with people of wealth and power who simply refuse to obey the court's orders. It affords them a sort of presumption of good faith which, when abused, translates into impunity. Rudi understands that regardless of what the court could theoretically do to him, as a practical matter the most it will do is exactly what it did. Which means that if Rudi does indeed have lots of money stashed somewhere he will get to keep it.
I have this faint memory of some guy getting a judgement against some big SF corp and they were ignoring the judgement. The memory is that he took the judgement to the SF sheriff and the sheriff went and padlocked the corps building. I think that worked. Hope someone has a better memory than I.
"Writ of Execution" is the term you are looking for. This happens occasionally with big corporations when they fall into a cycle where the person who has the authority to order the check cut can't be bothered to take notice. The sheriff's deputies showing up along with a moving crew serves to focus his attention. I read one of these stories where that guy got the panicked phone call on the golf course at a resort. He spoke with the plaintiff's attorney and promised a check Monday morning. Things had progressed far beyond that. He ended up chartering a helicopter to get back to the office before close of business. Good times.
Yes, a receiver can be appointed. Real estate can be foreclosed. Personal property can be seized and sold. Bank accounts can be garnished. The US is signatory to a treaty whereby the signatories recognize and enforce each other's money judgments, so the money can be pursued in many countries outside the US as well.
You think this is a new thing? There was McCarthy before Gingrich and the Red Scare before McCarthy. Conservatives have never cared if smearing innocent people destroys their lives as long as it leads them to power.
I've contended for a long time that the main requirement for being conservative is a total lack of empathy.
"is a total lack of empathy."
and integrity.
Adam Serwer, The Cruelty is the Point
I point people to this sentiment all the time but had forgotten where it was written up. Thanks for refreshing my memory.
You can't get blood from a turnip -- but you can certainly annoy [G rated term] the turnip while you're trying.
I think the plaintiffs are unlikely to get the whole amount, but they'll get plenty. And the lawyers helping Rudy hide the money will get a sizable amount from him as well.
It’s hard to know. The main thing to take away from reading the judge's order is that most of Rudi’s problems in the case stemmed from his absolute refusal to provide discovery to the plaintiffs, especially about his financial situation. Naturally, this leads one to surmise that he’s got lots of hidden assets but that he can’t “repatriate” them partially because of concerns about the lawsuits against him and partly because he’s stiffed his ex’s on alimony and property settlements.
I think the only assent that he openly holds is the NYC condo that’s been on the market for a while for $6 million. Assuming that Rudi files bankruptcy in the near future, it’s possible that the plaintiffs might force a sale but they’d probably have to share the proceeds with numerous other creditors.
For all we know, Rudi’s got millions stashed in the Cayman Islands but the plaintiffs will almost certainly never find it and probably can’t afford to pursue things like debtor exams. So, mostly a symbolic victory. But the judge evidently thinks that Rudi probably does have several million dollars in assets and he’s going to hide them during the 30 days before the judgment normally gets recorded.
Of course they can afford a debtor exam. You think the plaintiffs lawyers that took the case on a contingency basis are going to stop with the verdict and not put any effort in to collect it?
Their lawyers will fund the supplemental proceedings as long as they think there's money out there to be found.
You could be right that Rudy has off-shore bank accounts that he's hidden from ex-wives. If so, it would have to be done a few years ago. Rudy doesn't seem to be functioning at a high level at this point and doesn't seem capable of pulling off high level subterfuge.
But it's hard to say. It will b interesting to see what happens.
I’m not clear on the plaintiffs’s fee arrangements with their lawyers. My impression was that it was mostly a pro bono effort. In any case, I’ve had some experience with finding money that’s been stashed and if the defendant is rich, it’s nearly impossible for a private lawyer and difficult even for one employed by the government.
On the other hand, my impression of all of these offshore dodges is that it’s really hard and somewhat risky to repatriate the money if you’re got an enemy who has an incentive to keep an eye on you, such as a major creditor or an ex-wife. I think the plaintiffs will have to settle for a piece of the condo.
It seems likely that the Freemans will collect a few million, which is ample to fund debtor exams, forensic accountants, proceedings in foreign courts, etc. Rudi is known to have a condo in Florida as well as the New York apartment.
I was thrilled to hear that Kari Lake is now getting sued for defamation by a couple of Republican election workers who she falsely accused of altering the 2022 election results in Arizona. The more of these people who get sued the more reticent they will be to make outrageous claims like these. I understand that you can't bleed a turnip (one of my mothers favorite comments) but the turnip can certainly get mangled.
????????????????
In the end, with any luck he will be ruined and broken, to the extent he isn't already. I'm OK AF with that. He has defamed and betrayed a few of, and by extension all of, the people who make it all work.
I have always thought the British style of legal attack for slander was excessive, but in the U.S. we needed to do something, and this has been a long time coming. I wonder if there is a legislative way to facilitate faster, more comprehensive payment?
An unrepentant man, he will eventually violate an injunction and end up in jail.
That will get him, and others like him, to shut up faster than a financial penalty, regardless of ability to pay.
Rudi can afford to be unrepentant. You will notice that nobody but foot soldiers have ever been held to account for anything. Conservative leaders have never been called to account for anything, not ever.
In fact, until very recently, even the lowest foot soldiers of the conservative movement have been able to act with near complete impunity. Armed conservatives have paraded everywhere to intimidate liberals and elected officials and they've even stormed the Michigan capital. The Bundy Family was allowed to engage in numerous armed standoffs and to actually occupy a federal facility.
There's no accountability for Republicans or other conservative because Democrats and elected officials lack the courage of their convictions and prefer to sweep the danger presented by conservatives under the rug. If they were serious about preserving our republic they would move heaven and earth to impose accountability on Republicans for their lawbreaking.
Too bad they can't hire Tony Soprano's crew to collect from Rudy.
I guess a lying, sack of shit, scumbag is the operative definition of a MAGA Republican.
"Too bad they can't hire Tony Soprano's crew to collect from Rudy."
I would love to live in a world where a court could just send Moose and Rocco to "help Rudy find his checkbook."