Who won the debate? I think it was Kamala Harris, but I would say that, wouldn't I?
But I really think she did. I was impressed by her fluent command of facts, many of them a bit obscure. Her delivery was excellent. She chose not to respond to much of Trump's blizzard of lies, which had me yelling at the TV but then immediately wondering if maybe it was the right thing to do. Perhaps constantly calling out Trump's lies as lies doesn't work well with the average viewer.
Trump, I thought, was angrier than usual, which is saying a lot. He was in a rage practically the entire time and his lies were relentless. Kamala will ban all your guns. Kamala wants to kill babies after birth. Kamala negotiated with Putin. Kamala let millions of criminals into the country and they're eating pets in Springfield. Kamala will ban fracking. Kamala hates Israel (and Arabs!). Kamala has sent America into decline.
David Muir, one of the moderators, pushed back on some of these things, which surprised me. It didn't slow down Trump, but it was still more real-time fact checking than I can ever recall in a debate.
Trump was a little more coherent than he was in the last debate. He flitted from subject to subject as usual, but most of the time his segues were at least decodable.
Harris relied on a strategy of relentlessly staying positive and selling her "opportunity economy" story. I wish she had pushed back more on Trump's falsehoods, but she did that only occasionally—partly because of the moderators. Whenever Harris attacked Trump, he insisted on an immediate response. But it seemed to me that they often didn't give Harris the same opportunity.
Harris spent a lot of time trying to convince viewers that Trump was an extremist nutcase—but without directly calling him a nutcase. I can't tell if that worked. I understood all her references, but I'm not sure if the average viewer did.
In the end, Harris projected vibes of confidence and energy. Trump's vibes were angry and defensive. That's probably the single most important takeaway.
About a week ago there was an article about former Harris staffers complaining that she is (too) thorough and demanding of facts. Yea!
Trump was trapped by his own rhetoric. He was addressing MAGA only. No way Biden could have done as well. TIL that the Inflation Reduction Act included leases for oil extraction. Good response re fracking.
The Harris campaign now has at least two dozen clips they can use.
Donald got b***ch-slapped by Kamala.
+1
+1
Now she'll have to wash that bronzer off...
Hi 5
People have been saying Trump's style is the Gish Gallop, but I think it's really the Maniac's Monologue dressed up with $1billion.
Working his way down to the Last Words of Dutch Schultz.
Circling the drain after about three X-Strength gummies.
She cleaned his clock!
the ad writes itself
"kamala harris has a plan for the future while donald trump wants to talk about eating pets"
"your call america"
I wouldn't even mention the pet eating. "Kamala has a plan for the future while Donald Trump wants to talk like a crazy person."
Totally. l halfway expected her closing statement to just be her gesturing across the stage and being like “For real, America, you can do waaaaaaay better.”
J. Frank is right-- he was completely owned. At first she sounded like her answers were going off on tangents, but each one was a picador's barb planted in his flesh. And almost every one drew blood and made him more angry.
It was a brilliant approach, surgically done, that got him about 2/3 unhinged. He'll feel like he had a glorious triumph because he yelled a lot. But he didn't do himself any favors with those suburban women whose votes he needs.
The entire time Trump was speaking it felt like he was trying to beat Harris down with his verbal fists. The man had no joy in him and couldn’t come up with a single thing that was about 2025 instead of 2020.
I agree. Unfortunately when he started on covid all I remembered coming from him was "let them gargle with Bleach".
Trump was like the drunk at the end of the bar ranting incoherently about all sorts of weird stuff. He was often incoherent as in Kamala hates both Israelis and Arabs. His view of the Middle East sounded like Armageddon. His one character reference is Victor Orban! To debunk his comment about fine people on both sides he cites Sean Hannity and other Fox hosts, LOL.
There was nothing appealing about Trump. All he talked about was death and destruction and immigrants eating pets. I couldn’t believe he brought that up then even defended it.
He also came out on all sides of the 2020 election. Maybe he won the election, maybe he lost the election, maybe he was sarcastic when he said he lost.
Clearly she got under his skin while she kept her composure.
Now was not the time to sow doubt about whether he won in 2020. His base will see that as a betrayal. The fact that he's still taking about it is pathetic to begin with.
I tried to watch it. But his constant lying and shit eating grin was too much. The little I did see I thought the moderators gave him much more leeway than they gave Harris which pissed me of. I hope this pushes her ahead of Trump. In a sane world she would already be there.
The moderators gave him enough leeway to hang himself.
I agree. Since when does ABC refer to former President s as current? It was blantent disrespect to President Biden every time those clowns called him President Trump!!!
Master class in button pushing, including calling him a “disgrace”!
Was shocked at how Trump took the bait on his crowd sizes.
Trump will be screaming about it on Truth Social for days…
His meltdown will be epic and further prove he's not now or ever was fit to be POTUS.
"Disgrace" is an interesting choice of words for her to use. Isn't it one of his favorites epithets about Biden and Democrats? I have to wonder how many times Fred used it on him . . .
He'll need a while to recover from this.
Yes he uses the word all the time. It's a key part of his intimidation tactics. She chose it very carefully.
She and her advisors have this brilliantly mapped out, I have to say. Back in 2008 I thought Obama's comms were as good as you could hope for, but these people seem to be putting them in the shade.
He screams about everything. Dude doesn't know how to talk civil nor recognize the truth.
she won so decisively that is debates still matter this was a big deal. and the narrative in the media has already solidified in a way i don't remember ever seeing, and i think that will matter. the clips from this debate are going to lead to tens or hundreds of millions in pro-harris earned media. hell, even fox pundits said she won. and yeah, she also totally dodged directly answering a lot of question, and as far as i can tell it worked.
Alot of questions don't have direct answers, either.
He'll he never answers questions.
I had the impression he had about twice the speaking time she did, and whoever was controlling the moderators was telling them in their ear to move on at every point where they could leave the impression his demented characterizations were truthful and leaving her unable to respond.
And, weren't their mics supposed to be turned off when they weren't talking? Certainly didn't seem like his was.
I definitely agree
It seemed like they turned his back on when he refused to shut up. Why say you're going to mute the mics than don't for the most part? When Harris asked to respond to his obvious lies they refused her. But allowed Trump to continue to talk out of turn. Again Trump is treated differently.
He got over 5 minutes more time than she did. But yeah, it seemed like more.
You say that like it was a good thing for Trump. Just more time out on the limb sawing away.
But didn’t it drive you crazy in real time? My wife and I were yelling at the moderators for letting him talk out of turn and blather his usual talking point lies.
yes
It seemed Harris got her way about the mics anyway. Trump just can't control himself. Another sign he's a weak leader and a weak person.
9 minutes more than her.
I started muting him after the first couple of rounds because I can't listen to more than a few minutes of his lying and blathering before my brain hurts. I admit that distorted my view of the debate as a whole, but Harris' performance was what I was interested in seeing, and I was pleased with it.
CNN said he had about 43 minutes and she had 37.
Couldn't watch it.
More than 10 seconds of Trump on TV and I'll throw a remote through it.
I'd rather smell roadkill than listen to him and seeing his shit eating grin as he lies his way through the debate. I get the same feeling of revulsion. I lasted more than ten seconds though because I wanted to hear Harris speak.
Hi 5
Harris won by miles on demeanor, character and content. Even on issues where I somewhat disagree with her*, I still found her answers a coherent defense of her fairly common position.
* There is no issue on which Republicans are more correct than Democrats, but sometimes they do have valid point. At other times, I am to the left of Harris.
"In the end, Harris projected vibes of confidence and energy. Trump's vibes were angry and defensive."
Trump's attitude was also bullying and domineering. Most of his supporters like that. Most of us find it off putting. That is where the election will be won or lost.
"Trump's vibes were angry and defensive." So are most of his most rabid supporters. He's still appealing to the worst of his base. While probably turning off everyone else. The constant hate and doomsaying is tiring.
Trump claimed he would be better at dealing with strongmen. Weird idea given he couldn't deal with Kamala. She totally owned him tonight.
Strong men don't fear Trump, they use him and he's completely oblivious to this fact. Which would be funny if it weren't so dangerous to have a POTUS so easily manipulated.
He's not oblivious. He's very good at selling himself.
True, but he's oblivious to how easy he can be manipulated. Putin did it quite easily. Apparently saying nice things to him is pretty much all it takes. Being a murderous autocrat helps too. He seems to admire those types.
Strong men "use" him in the sense of "Do not pick up the soap!"
CNN said that as soon as she needled him about people leaving his rallies because they got bored he just went downhill. He just couldn't take that. And I agree that there were too many times they let him get in an extra rebuttal when his mike should have been off, much more than Kamala got. I think he just couldn't accepte having to debate a woman who is younger and waaaay more positive about the world. And no matter what the question was, he pulled it back to immigration. HE killed the bill in Congress that would have helped the border situation. The CNN commentators were all saying she totally owned it.
The bonus here is that it gives the lie Trump's claim that the debate was unfair.
So it was unfair then he should want another debate. However, two days after the debate I read Trump announces there will be no more debates.
Well that ass whipping was enough I'd say.
The moderators allowed trump to jump in & use up more than his allowed time, & I agree with KD that Kamala might have pushed back quickly on a few more of trump's lies than she did (about his claims of increasing crime, the numbers of people crossing into the US when both those numbers have decreased, the fact that immigrants- whether documented or not - do not have a high crime rate, that she hasn't called for defunding the police (she was a prosecutor, DA, & AG, for heaven's ake!), etc.
And trump immediately went on Fox to say that maybe he wouldn't debate her a second time!
She did push back against his comment that Harris wants to take people's guns. She had to do it as part of her responce to a different question though. If I remember it correctly.
Yes, I heard that one. And I just remembered that no one corrected trump's lies that Pelosi & Bowser were responsible for Capitol security & had the authority to call out the National Guard during the insurrection. His followers weren't likely educated in civil classes & have no understanding of his repeated lies, since outside of the DC area, few seem aware of that.
If he were smart he won't debate her again. But he's not. All she has to do is have her or her surrogates needle him into getting so mad his ego will demand another debate. It's embarrassing how easy it is to manipulate him.
That's how bully's react. They don't think.
Just FYI. That shot of her laughing was when he called her a Marxist.
That is funny. He probably has no clue what a Marxist is though.
Totally my first thought
Donald thinks a Marxist is anyone who likes Karl, Groucho, Harpo or Chico.
"Why is he called her a Marxist? He's the one out there getting publicly owned."
Once of the best comments I saw last night.
Well, to be fair, Trump did come across a lot like Rodolfo Lassparri and/or Ambassador Trentino. Which would make Harris a Marxist, of sorts.
It's comical that he's still using the same line about replacing the A.C.A. It's coming soon... lol. The new twist is saying he tried to make it better which is the most ridiculous lie. He did everything he could do to destroy it, not improve it.
That was precious, for sure. "Concepts." Well, it's only been a thing for him for 8 or 9 years and good things take time, right?
Have to admit, though, I was a little disappointed he didn't say he'd be releasing them in two weeks. Maybe he's saving that line for Debate Part Deux: Escape from Thunderdome.
By the end of the week, will the main stream media be treating Harris omission of her McDonald's work experience on a resume as an impeachable offense?
Media executives and the professional 'both-sides!' writers are working overtime to come up with a new and exciting storyline for thursday.
At least she has a resume with job experiences. He has none.
I also wanted to turn it off if only because I hate the sound of Trump's voice so much...and I would of, But then Ms harris started speaking, and her demeanor, the way she gazed at Mr Trump that totally seemed to unnearve him even more...it was like a cat batting a poor helpless mouse about.
And that was good to see; fun; better than football....lol
PS I remain very uneasy about her unrealized gains tax proposal...I will watch it carefully, (not because I have more than 100,000,000.00 in income or unrealized gains...but because it makes her vulnerable to being called a "communist." This is not a stance she needs to take now!
+1
If they can use unrealized gains as collateral, that's income. On the low end that's not important, above a hundred million, that's a problem.
Yes it was. Like you I struggled with the remote when it was his turn to speak. More lies he spewed without blinking.
"the average viewer"
Unfortunately, we don't care about the average viewer. We care about the low information voter, who probably didn't watch the debate and probably won't see any coverage related to the debate. I think the mainstream media will have no choice but to score this as a win for Harris, and there is some hope that will influence the few voters who are somehow still on the fence.
And also get young voters to vote in higher numbers. Higher than the 20 to 30% typical of that age group. Lots of potential votes there.
It won't hurt that Taylor Swift just endorsed Harris.
Yes Kamala cleaned Donald’s clock but here is an interesting observation- in the Biden debate he (Trump) was even more unhinged (word in the street is that he prepared extensively for today’s debate) and yet we all saw what happened. Conclusion? Kamala can be and is a great debater. Conclusion #2: thank you Joe Biden, you did the right thing. To be clear, even in Biden’s best moment he could not pull what Kamala did. In fact, until today, no one had, though I would have loved to see an Obama-Trump debate.
She handed him his head, no doubt about it-- with a smile-- and it was really something to witness, brutal in its surgical effectiveness. And nobody deserved it more. If there's a round two, she's already taken up residence so deep in his psyche that he'll work himself into a spiral of submission before the first question. A level of dominance over him rivaling Putin's, imho.
Agree about gratitude to Biden. But I'm not sure anyone else could have pulled it off, to be honest. Obama was devastating with the perfectly-timed one-liners, but I'm not entirely confident he could have been as relentless as she was. Unremitting. Who else has that single-minded persistence?
This. Putin is quite worried today. Kamala sounds like Ursula von der Leyen with a huge load of nukes.
Hoy-o, to-hoh-Oh!
Hi 5
Commercial suggestion for Harris, start with "Do you want to go back to this?"
Cut to Donald's many weird ramblings
End with something positive about the future.
Also talk about the rule of law and how elected officials need to apply fairly to everyone. People get that.
She kicked his butt.
wait to see the headline in the next few days on NYT and FOX,
yes Donald was not good, BUT her plan on the economy..
The NYT after the debate was bothsiding and sanewashing it to an extreme pitchbot couldn't have guessed.
What's Trumps plan? Does anyone know what his plans are ?
Everyone says she needs to tell more about her plans, well so does he.
Kamala won very clearly and I am very pleased with her performance (and Trump's, but in the other direction).
But the Dems remain vulnerable on Inflation/the economy. It's like Harris did not want to talk about it, like she has something to hide on it, like they have conceded that point to Trump. Even though the President IRL does not control the economy that much. Dems need a counter-narrative, especially because the economy is pretty good right now. Something like yes, there was inflation that raised prices, but that was a one-time thing because of Covid that happened all over the world. And today, inflation is down, unemployment is down, and the stock market is at record levels. And they can add that Trump inherited a strong economy from Obama, nothing more.
Don't feed the troll.
I didn't watch the entire debate (I wanted to go to bed at a reasonable hour), but Harris exceeded my expectations. She was professional, polished, and much better than she was in the 2020 primary debates. Not responding too much to Trump's lies was absolutely the right thing to do - it helped keep her tone positive. You could tell that she was really prepared, and her attacks on Trump were delivered with the right level of bite - clear and hard without being overdone. She never made me cringe. I was going to vote for her anyway, of course, but I'm feeling better about her now.
I think she should have spent more time just stating that everything he says is either outright lying or contrived in a way to support lying, because a lot of people simply do not get that and if no one states it categorically they'll think his nonsense has a point that isn't addressed.
I think it would have been too repetitive and too negative, and would have taken too much time away from her own position statements. She called him a liar more than once, I think it was enough. Getting bogged down in that vein would have been bad. Her most compelling message was that this election shouldn't be about Trump, it should be about the American people. She lived up to that by not talking about him too much.
If people don't know by now that he is a liar then they don't want to know.
The man has been found guilty on so many charges that he's lied about. He's a felon. He is waiting a sentencing after the election for his lying charges. He has been ordered to pay the prostitute for lying. His wife has distanced herself, daughter won't work with him anymore.
If that poison wood tick's voice was just laying there on the sidewalk I would cross the street to avoid it.