By the way, as of Friday we have evacuated more than 20,000 people from Kabul and are evacuating more at the rate of about 4-5,000 per day.
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The population of Afghanistan is 38 million. Probably half or more are taliban party members / supporters so we only have 15 million to go! Oh… that will take 8 years at this rate.
Well, you know, most will just have to submit. It’ll be fine. They all believe in Islam anyway. They are like republicans here in the USA. I don’t know why so many think these “allies” are good liberal atheist folks. There is No way that’s true. We are importing hateful religious fanatics. Sad.
Fuck off troll. Your trolling is both obvious and batshit insane. Please die.
Found KKKlay Travis's burner.
#DBAP #BGID
5000 a day is satisfactory to me. If we were prepared to do that at the start of the collapse a lot less to complain about although such chaos was unavoidable.
Justin, as usual so much of what you say is exaggerated snark so never sure what to take seriously.
But I would say that way under half support the taliban. As is true in most nations where the people do not have an inherent feeling that the govt will respect their rights, the majority support no side and just survive by going with the flow and agreeing with whoever wins. Whjevee wins, they may not get the rewards of the winning side, but you get no more than taxed either, not killed. That is how you survive in a place like Afghanistan. Keep your head down and do not committ. As the talibsn marches in, " you know thank God I was always with you guys". If govt wins " yeah thank God you guys held off that bad taliban".
The ones getting out are the few who actively fought the taliban or supported western values. Small small minority. The vast majority were neither stupid or brave enough to do that or be taliban.
And they might be more conservative or even reactionary on social issues in the American spectrum and on the right from the bulk of Republicans. They are not "good" liberal atheist folks agree. But they are not the hateful religion fanatics either. They put their life on the line to fight the hateful religious fanatics. Unless you fought in Afghanistan, likely you never did.
There seems to be two ridiculous and utterly contradictory memes argued by some democratic partisans.
One that the Republicans are going to be dead set on any Afghan refugees as they know that they will all vote republican as they think Republicans are the taliban. The other that they will be rabid right wingers.
I am vigorously anti war and anti military. It’s why we can’t have nice things as a left leaning American. The money wasted on this effort could have fulfilled every Democrat’s social spending dreams from universal health care to free education. Even now, the war loving pundits are calling the Biden presidency a failure because he refused to continue this charade. Time will tell if that’s the case. The agenda, once again, is wrecked on the rocks of a failed foreign policy. It is truly astonishing how many Democrats tolerate this state of affairs.
I don’t care one bit about these Afghans. I’m sure there are some who are perfectly nice. So what? Evacuate them or leave them to fight for a future. Don’t care. But I’m not going to pretend I have any sympathy for them at all.
To me, Afghan society a complete and total failure and has been for decades. They are welcome to their silly religious views. I don’t live there.
They were given a chance to remake their society these last 20 years and they are right back where they started. They failed. Miserably. Maybe they didn’t get the right kind of help, but what else could the US have done? Lots of very well meaning people went to that country and tried to help. And they failed too. The Afghans failed to reject the culture and religion which enslaves them. I am forced to conclude they prefer it… or are willing to tolerate it.
So now we’re all supposed give up any chance of meaningful reform in this country because of 20+ years of Afghan foolishness. So be it.
Two lies & a lie: Justin is a left leaning American who is very concerned about the deficit.
Only 20,000? Obviously a total failure! ... or alternatively, a near miracle, had a Republican president done it. We just expect a Dem to be competent.
Bullshit pretend military talk tactics. Real military talk logistics. Those 20,000 need to land somewhere. That somewhere needs to house, feed and provide medical care. The young need education. Adults need jobs. That ain't gonna happen overnight.
Most of what I read about the evacuation falls into the Bullshit sob story category.
How dare you, sir, how dare you not toe the line of the narrative!
But now cnn reported that they had seen no refugee flights go out for at least 8 hours. And looks like it was because they could not be processed as Qatar, which where they were flying them to, was not accepting any more as filled up and we had no alternative ready.
So I guess that 5000 a day ain't happening yesteday.
And you know where it might hurt biden more in the end? An indirect media effect.
Quite possible that, no matter how bad the execution was, any political damage from that directly will fade over time. But the political benefit from the basic idea of pulling out will last more. Eventually people remember the basic point of the issue and forget the details.
But what has changed, and the extent has honestly shocked me , is the dramatic change in media coverage and so quickly. Especially cnn.
Although I have been more critical of biden here over time ( I sort of defended him at first) and many here feel I am unfair to biden, I am a huge biden supporter here compared to cnn.
And I never expected I would be thinking cnn is being too negative to Biden. Hell, fox news is not as negative as cnn.
Just weeks ago everything at cnn and most mainstream media was biden is great and everything is perfect - let's report on his ice cream flavor. And now they give him no benefit of the doubt at all.
And I do not think that goes back to before even after Afghanistan blows over as a news story. The media honeymoon is over.
It is worse than a breakdown of the Honeymoon...the Press Corps is fundamentally broken. Chris Coumo has been blathering on all week about how the US Military must finally impose its will upon the Taliban...making them do as we dictate.
Worse he refuses to push back against any of his guests, the same smart people that perpetuated this war for 20 long years, on how this might be done? I wanted to shout tonight at my Television....How many Afghans are you willing to go kill Chris? How many American dead? How long will any stranded Americans be alive after the shooting you are calling for starts?
Then later, I saw Wesley Clark, who I once respected suggest tonight there might be 2,000,000 deserving Afghan refugees...and the news host was too stupid or too cowardly to ask back...Are you in favor of 2,000,000 Afghan Refugee coming to the United States? If not here, then where?
And I have less love than most for any possible stranded Americans...they were there either as a contractor or NGO or USAID to make big money, to drive around in rich Toyota SUVs or Land Rovers...doing good often, yes, but also loathed by the common Afghan for this overlording of this ostentatious wealth.
There once was the News, with some Politics, now it is all Politics with occasional News.
There has not only been a fundamental break-up between CNN and the Biden Administration...there has been a fundamental break between me and CNN also. They probably have an enemy now.
Best Wishes, Traveller
Chris Cuomo has been really negative more than others. Is this perhaps maybe part of the Cuomo revenge.
After all that has come out on Andrew and Chris's involvement, how the hell is he still on air. Should never have been reporting on his brother back in 2020 ( when Andrew Cuomo was the greatest per liberals ).
The majority of the Afghan people have had no say in the politics & power exerted by the warlords, yet here someone can casually blame them all for their own fate & that of their country - even as the Taliban stated that women will be treated in accordance with Islam (then clarifying that their harsh version of sharia will govern), women journalists are being threatened, the Taliban forces are going door-to-door looking for those they plan to kill, & Hazara men are being tortured & murdered. Minority Shia believers have no rights there (or in Pakistan, where an Ashura parade was just bombed).
But here we have Justin's lack of sympathy for all of Afghanistan's unarmed & poor inhabitants, as if they controlled their fate & are deserving of it.
And while we pile on Biden - never close to being my favorite politician - who is acknowledging that (1) trump arranged for this horrendous state of affairs last year, predicted an immediate collapse; (2) he & his faithful liars have deleted his involvement from their social-media posts & memories (especially that vapid former ambassador to the UN!); & (3) it has been stated that trump's agreement with the Taliban - not negotiated in partnership with our allies - could not simply be overturned by Biden, as with an executive order.
And after the way in which CNN's own reporters were just recently treated by the Taliban, one would think that their coverage would better reflect reality.
Justin's lack of sympathy for all of Afghanistan's unarmed & poor inhabitants…
Depending upon who you believe, those unarmed and poor inhabitants were just as much victims of the Americans as you think they are victims of the Taliban.
“The Afghan economy has been warped beyond recognition by billions upon billions of "reconstruction" dollars, which mostly flowed into the pockets of corrupt warlords or equally-corrupt American contractors. The so-called "government" the U.S. stood up was so corrupt that it made the Taliban look like Switzerland — as The Economist noted back in 2019, a trucker driving from Herat to Kandahar would have to pay the Taliban to pass, but only once because they gave him a receipt. Government soldiers, by contrast, would stick him up 30 times.”
I"m not only cognizant of what the Afhham government was & that the real power was NOT kn bureaucrats on Kabul, but that us not my issue with you.
You must be a truly awesome human, to unashamedly proclaim your total lack of sympathy for any of them
It's easy for those who weren't born into the unremitting disaster that has involved the Russians, the corruption among the richest Afghans, & the US & European forces.
It’s not about me.
“America has learned what the Soviets learned 40 years ago: Afghans spit out foreigners. Of course, the U.S. embarrassment is greater, since the Soviet-backed Afghan government lasted for three years after Soviet troops left, while the U.S.-backed government folded in a weekend. Even the "legendary" warlord Ismail Khan "raised his hands as soon as the jihadists approached." Why should he fight for an Afghan regime that "had not the slightest authority among the people?" The government of Ashraf Ghani was seen as a band of corrupt American puppets. Afghans have always despised collaborators, and any U.S.-backed government was doomed from the outset.“
The difference is we claimed to know this before we went in, but we're special so will buck that trend, hubris at its finest.
The point is that these so called refugees or allies, are really perceived as part of the corrupt US backed regime. So many here imagine them to be heroes when many Afghans see them as corrupt… members of the rival gang.
"America has learned what the Soviets learned 40 years ago: Afghans spit out foreigners."
Indeed, and one wonders if all the Western hippies who visited Afghanistan in the 60s and early 70s looking for drugs destabilized things to such a point where King Mohammed Zair Shah, perhaps the last good ruler the Afghan people had, was overthrown by his former prime minister in a bloodless coup in response or at least no one was upset when he was deposed. Even the hippies weren't wanted.
The corporate media's reaction to all this I believe is due to several reasons:
1). They have Afghans who were their own guides and translators they want to get out of the country and are running into the red tape of security vetting and they're pissed off about it. That response is at least understandable and though they damn well better realize Americans would not forgive any Administration that allowed some jihadist to sneak their way into the U.S and commit a terrorist attack for lack due process. And they should imagine what it would be like if Kabul fell and its Donald Trump and Stephen Miller controlling the evacuation process. Yeah, there's big difference
2). The shock of seeing an Islamic country at least sympathetic to Western values falling to a nationalistic, fundamentalist Islamic insurgency is the same Brexit and Trump's victories. That means a lot of recriminations, especially from center-left elite journalists wondering what went wrong and whether such values can easily stand up to nationalism anymore. I think also the fact that Biden's speech Monday could have easily been delivered by Trump and even, dare I say it, Pat Buchanan, also unsettles them. Biden's not that far gone but his political antenna has been pretty good so far as to what the median American voter, mid-50s working class male and female of all races, wants and doesn't want. Why the elite media (except for Nicole Wallace) keeps underestimating it is beyond me.
3). Afghanistan for such media people was actually not a bad gig to be assigned to or travel in if you didn't mind the armed escorts or security clearances. Pretty exotic place, Kabul all built up and modernized these past 20 years with bars and funky shops and beautiful, scenic places to go hiking. Now that's all gone and I gather many in the elite media are upset by that. Too bad the locals (the ones out in the countryside whose sons fight for the Taliban) don't seem to care nor cared for their presence to begin with.
All part of the explanation and does not describe the media in very flattering terms.
I might add ,which is similar to your point #3, that the media have really become an elite spoiled privileged class , not the underdogs fighting the power they imagine themselves . They are part of the power.
And whenever they do not catered to as part of the God class, they can be whiny little bitches .
Some of the media, including cnn, wanted the army to set up a special gate at the airport where they could get in and out to report . And are all pissed that they did not get it. If it is possible to set up an extra gate, it needs to be used to evacuate more people, not for the media.
This is a life or death situation. Some things take priority over media access.
And I can respect the bravery of those in the media who are reporting from outside the airport. But honestly part of that might come from a feeling that they are invulnerable. That nobody would dare to violate their God like importance. They might find otherwise with the taliban once they no longer serve their interests. And maybe biden won't be as eager to rescue them.
And, although some of you will be upset at this comment, this was part of the over top negativity to trump. Yes, it originated mostly ideological as the media mostly had different views and neither agreed with or respected what trump thought.
But it went to high level largely because trump returned the favor and had no respect for them right back. And the media was outraged that trump did not show them the respect they were "due".
Also think many of the media who are liberal democrats were still unhappy with biden over many things and might have wanted to report on things like lack of access and few press conferences more - you know do their job and not be a partisan. But hard to be the first one to do so. What are you- fox news? Lose friends being the first. But now negative reporting on biden is acceptable again on any topic.
"that the media have really become an elite spoiled privileged class , not the underdogs fighting the power they imagine themselves . They are part of the power."
Right, and when you have a situation in the country where you have this "elite" city being built up in Kabul while the countryside is more or less the same as it was going back 40 years, no wonder your average Afghan is going to resent it. It's not that they like the Taliban but they never like the government either.
I read one Afghan academic's pierce on another website where he stated that while the last 20 years opened up a lot of opportunities for many Afghans, at the same time, how can one feel confident or free when some drone launches an attack on your village from out-of-the-sky on a clear, blue day like some science fiction film. Imagine living with that or you're a conservative, tribal fellow, seeing women liberated or taking jobs they didn't over 20 years ago all protected by the foreigner's drones? I mean it wasn't a society set up to defend those values. More often than not people were just confused and it left a vaccumn the Taliban nicely filled.
The Orlando mass shooter was Afghan. I don’t think anyone cares really. We have so many home grown mass shootings now that Islamic terrorism seems quaint in comparison.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/21/us-forces-in-afghanistan-look-for-alternative-evacuation-plans-as-isis-threatens-airport.html
Kevin is usually good about including references. This time, not so much …