I've posted this before, but I feel like putting it up again for all the folks who think illegal immigrants are taking away all the jobs:
In 2021-22 there was a huge demand for workers, and that really did produce a rise in illegal immigration. But this was only because the high demand was still there even after companies had hired every last native-born worker they could get their hands on.
The chart tells the story. Among prime-age native-borns, the labor participation rate after 2021 rose to its highest level in 20 years. It was maxed out. Everyone with even the slightest interest in working had a job.
So companies began hiring foreign-born workers—many of them here illegally—in a desperate attempt to fill open spots. The participation rate for prime-age foreign-borns also rose to record levels.
This is all the result of a red hot labor market. Everyone got jobs: natives, foreign-borns, and illegal immigrants alike. Nobody's jobs were taken away by anybody.
As usual, South Park nailed this 20-1/2 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goobacks
Noooo...fake numbers!!! The actual unemployment rate is 260%!! No one can find a job! People are putting in applications everywhere and no one will hire them because all the immigrants have taken all the jobs. Also, there are help wanted signs everywhere because no one wants to work.
Tell me about it. This past year, I really wanted to pick lettuce in the 110 degree heat in Imperial Valley for minimum wage, but when I showed up, all the jobs had been taken by migrants. It's a pain so many middle-aged white guys know all too well.
The question is not whether jobs are being taken away by illegal immigrants. The first question is whether your unconscious mind perceives an input stimulus as a conflict, a to-be-seized opportunity, or irrelevant.
Then, assuming the stimulus is perceived as a conflict, the second question is how the unconscious mind perceives the conflict. If it perceives a within-system dilemma, then it informs and triggers the conscious mind's role in resolving the dilemma. Otherwise, it perceives an extra-system problem with a one-step "neutralize threat" solution, in which case the conscious mind remains a passive observer.
It's possible for the unconscious mind to mistake a dilemma for a problem, or vice versa. For example, when people believe the lie that jobs are being taken away by immigrants, then it's because their conscious mind remained a passive observer. Conversely, the conscious mind is an active participant for people like MLK as evidenced by the following quote taken from the letter he wrote from Birmingham City Jail: "We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." Now that's an accurate perception of the system!
The idea that immigrants or anyone “takes” a job is wrong from the foundation, because they CREATE an equivalent job when they spend their money.If they instead try to save it, it just gets loaned out by the bank. If they invest it, it’s right back in the economy. If they send it abroad, it devalues the dollar against their home currency, boosting exports.
The economy is a circle, and adding new people to it, whether by border crossing or vagina crossing, has no material impact on your income or the number of jobs available.
Throughout the 19th century, a constant stream of immigrants and completely wide open borders caused the American economy to collapse.
Isn't that how American history is told?
Or was it the flood of Vietnamese asylum seekers at the end of the war that crushed America? No wait, it was the 12M undocumented Mexicans in the mid-90s, right?
Wait, if America hasn't collapsed under the weight of immigration, this time for sure, it will, right?
What does it matter if they're here legally or illegally? When they're contributing to the economy they're contributing to the economy. The economy is not a zero-sum game and anyone claiming so is a fucking idiot.
I keep asking people why they are so hell-bent on keeping people out. The most intelligent answer (or least stupid, depending on your point of view) is "I don't mind immigrants, but my grandparents came here legally and they should, too. We can't just have open borders." They get really confused when I tell them that we did have open borders when their grandparents came here. If the laws in place then were the same as the laws in place now, what their grandparents did would be illegal.
The idea that borders are for keeping people out is a relatively recent one. Historically, borders defined the administrative and taxing authority of the king, or duke or whatever. People moved freely across borders and nobody gave it a second thought. If you went back 300 years and told people "You really should put up walls and gates to keep people from coming in" they would have looked at you like you were daft. "Whatever for?" would have been the likely answer. My question today is the same..."Whatever for?"
We need workers. We need about 80,000 jobs a month to keep up with population growth, but we routinely generate 200,000 or more per month. Who takes all those other jobs? More workers would also help Social Security and every economic analysis I have ever seen concludes that immigrants are a net positive to the economy. Legal or illegal, it makes no difference.
Hadrian's Wall? Great Wall of China?
😉
Those had nothing to do with immigration. They were built to prevent raiders from robbing and pillaging.
Make sure everybody blames every problem they have on someone else. Immigrants do nicely.
Harris has to reach out to people to ask them to help her heal this country. We passed an infrastructure bill, and people are needed to fix our infrastructure. We have the CHIPS act, and we need people to help build new factories and workers to build the latest generation of chips right here inn the US.
Harris needs to go back to trolling Team Trump. Use the "I sawn it on TV" clip from the debate--I mean, do you believe everything you see on TV? Should the next President? And how about Vance whining about being fact checked? Why doesn't he just tell people the truth instead of whining about being fact checked?
Some people don't want to believe in Global Warming, but that wishful thinking won't make the hurricanes go away. We need to build out grid and make it more resilient. And beef up our renewable energy And we'll need you to help, creating jobs and making us less dependent on the corporations controlling fossil fuels.
But I digress....
"This is all the result of a red hot labor market. Everyone got jobs: natives, foreign-borns, and illegal immigrants alike. Nobody's jobs were taken away by anybody."
And if there are more cars on the road than ever that means there is no such thing as auto theft?
What a ridiculous argument. Because auto theft exists, does that mean nobody is able to get a car? Or even that it's harder for people to get a car? I mean seriously.
Did some American, somewhere in the country not get a job because an illegal immigrant was hired instead? Very probably. Does that happen enough to have any kind of negative impact on the economy? The numbers say "no".
Also, did some American somewhere in the country get a job because an immigrant also got a job and was spending his earnings? Absolutely.
"Did some American, somewhere in the country not get a job because an illegal immigrant was hired instead? Very probably. Does that happen enough to have any kind of negative impact on the economy? The numbers say "no"."
The numbers say free trade hasn't had a negative impact on the economy. And that automation hasn't had a negative impact on the economy. Doesn't mean these things haven't had a negative effect on a politically significant number of people.
Stupid guy on internet stumbles with first attempt, tries to refocus by using previous distractions.
As President, I will take every step possible to reduce your wages and benefits... but hey, look over there, AUTOMATION !!!! I MEAN NAFTA!! NO WAIT, IMMIGRANTS!!!!
"But this was only because the high demand was still there even after companies had hired every last native-born worker they could get their hands on"...
....at the price point they were willing to spend.
FTFY
Yeah - the attitude displayed by the regulars on this blog is why the Democrats are losing the working class.
When an industry is predominantly using illegal immigrant labor, that means that they are not offering a wage or working conditions sufficient to attract legal, domestic labor. Lax immigration controls are, in effect, a subsidy for such industries because lax immigration controls allow them to pay lower wages / improve working conditions less than they would have to otherwise.
Overall I disapprove of the practice for what you stated, but also due to the lack of protections said workers receive. As long as we allow for partial citizens to exist we're falling short.
We have the capacity, but not the will to manage what is essentially a logistics issue. So we allow for undocumented work out of mercy in one sector and a desire to have cheap labor in another.
Unsurprisingly, you have it backwards.
Because of business-friendly (read: Republican) policies, the types of jobs that are filled with undocumented labor generally are paying less and are less safe. Democrats want jobs to pay more and be more safe. Workers prefer making more money and their job being safer, whether they're undocumented or natural-born citizens.
No my dude. Business interests support illegal immigration because it depresses wages.
But these jobs were previously held by domestic workers under conditions that were the same or worse than conditions today.
The influx of illegal immigrant labor - starting in the 1970s - suppressed wage growth in these fields, causing domestic labor to shift to areas lacking competition from illegal immigrants.
But in any event, beyond attributing blame, you seem curiously uninterested in fixing this.
Democrats are the only people actually trying to fix wages, working conditions and immigration.
So to sum up, I think that your analysis is missing a key factor.
The recent run up in the wages of low and medium income workers caused a massive working class freakout about INFLATION!!!@, so again, perhaps you are missing something here...
Pumping a massive amount of money into the economy and lowering interest rates caused an asset bubble.
Supply chain disruptions provided a justification for rent-seeking by firms (resulting in massive profits).
Wages didn't even keep up, much less drive inflation.