According to Politico, Donald Trump considered issuing an order shortly after the 2020 election that would have directed the Secretary of Defense to “seize, collect, retain and analyze all machines, equipment, electronically stored information, and material records required for retention under” a U.S. law that relates to preservation of election records.
In other words, the order would have authorized the Pentagon to seize voting machines. But it was never issued.
It's good to see this stuff get leaked, but it won't change any minds. Remember, all the "Big Lie" folks believe that Democrats routinely steal elections, so they're going to think this was a perfectly justifiable plan. Their only regret is that Trump never did it.
Who said they expect this to change minds? Nobody is expecting this to change the minds of Big Lie believers. Hell, it won't change anyone's mind. It's being brought up because it might be evidence of illegal activity for which the perpetrators should be prosecuted.
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Everything trump did can be explained away as just hardball politics. The fake electors, the lies, the arm twisting, all of it - even the speech on 1/6 - can be considered political activities and so... it's not really a good idea to charge them with crimes. They aren't real crimes. The only real crimes were the attacks on capitol police. Everything else is just politics.
That's the excuse the Dept. of Justice will use to avoid prosecuting the coup plotters. It's nonsense of course, but that's what they will say.
Trump has to go. One way or another. By accident or illness or violence... he has to go. Until such time, America is doomed to conflict and collapse. I personally think it is doomed regardless.
Trump or some other republican will do all these things in 2024-2025 and this country will put up with it. That much is clear now. No one will stop them.
But this isn't the former guy's Justice Department anymore. The Supreme Court, heavily weighted down with his supporters and appointees, actually ruled that he isn't the current president.
Italy eventually rid itself of Burlesconi. Israel has at least gotten Netanyahu out of office. The trouble with fashionable cynicism is that it serves as a good excuse to do nothing, just lay back and shrug.
My cynicism is harmless. I'd prefer to get rid of trump, but I'm unwilling to sacrifice that way. I rely on the justice system and the political system, but I'm observing that they are hesitant to act. This fake elector story is a perfect example. The state of Michigan, for example, could have arrested them a year ago. But they didn't see it as a crime. It was just some crackpots making noise.
"When asked if she thought the fake electors conspired to steal the election, she said she looks forward to what federal authorities say about the case.
LANSING, Mich. (FOX 2) - Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel wants federal authorities to investigate 16 Republicans who claimed they were the state's presidential electors.
"I think that the documents speak for themselves," she said. "If you are asking me if I think they violated the law, my answer is yes, I do."
The state Republicans party dismisses her allegations, saying, "This is nothing more than political prosecution of convenience... she is playing politics with people's lives and livelihoods for the sake of scoring political points."
But why did she wait this long to even bring it up?
The state of Michigan, for example, could have arrested them a year ago. But they didn't see it as a crime. It was just some crackpots making noise. "When asked if she thought the fake electors conspired to steal the election, she said she looks forward to what federal authorities say about the case.
Yes. I've seen those reports. They're disturbing. If a crime under state law has been committed, why not charge them? Because they're wealthy white folks with fancy lawyers? Doesn't make sense. It's hardly the case that state-level prosecution would prevent Federal prosecutors from likewise pursuing charges, if there's evidence of federal crimes, right?
The GOP's massive debasement of the law (and Democrats' frequent refusal to uphold law) now means that, in many cases, clear evidence of criminality is shrugged off as mere hardball politics. Boys will be boys.
Also, anyone who thinks Merrick "Simpering" Garland won't prosecute white nationalist putschists must also think Timothy Mc Veigh is alive.
How many machines now have to be replaced due to big lie fake "audits"....
How much is all that costing taxpayers? How much more would Trump's machinations cost us?
All good questions. But, more importantly, how do you put a value on the difference between democracy and fascism?
I think it's the costs of Briannah-Joy Gray's & Virgil's student loans.
no one who believes the election was stolen will believe this reporting at all. they'll just chalk it up to more deep state lies.
Safe to say that the effects of the brainwashing isn't going to fade any time soon.
Sure, as information comes out, it probably won't "change minds." But there is such a thing as observable reality, facts, and a historical record. Some of us nerds, wonks, and geeks think that uncovering, documenting, and preserving records of important things is worth doing, for its own sake.
Not that we're going to have very many ancestors to appreciate it, however. Since capitalism has effectively precluded responding to global warming.
We are working on the margins, not on the extremes. Yes, there are folks who will not be swayed. They are noisy. They aim to take up all the oxygen for their side, to make it look like everyone agrees with them that isn't the enemy.
That is not accurate, though. I'd estimate that maybe 10 percent of the population is in the "persuadable" category. (Yes, I decline to call them "Independent" or "Undecided" for reasons.) Swinging all of them will make a big difference, electorally. Even a 5 point voter swing, or convincing 5 points worth of R voters to stay home or vote Libertarian is a big, big deal electorally.
Faith is self-confidence with a supernatural imprimatur.
Something about conservatives and social conservatives that I've never found a good term for is that they are extremely banal, and how banal they can be can be an extremist experience.
The place in the mind that a fantasy world, like Marvel movies or Star Wars, will have for the average person is occupied for them by the real world, by the diurnal common elements of ordinary existence.
This is why the facts of physical reality can be entirely malleable for them by an authoritative voice, because everything is Imagination Land. And, when they feel banality is threatened by non-banality, well, who can argue?
The Oath Keepers have more in common with a LARP society than they do with a real militia and this is what will often confuse people about conservatives and why their menace is so often dismissed and overlooked.
The defense against this will always be: "but he didn't do it, did he, so what's the big deal?"
Yeah, the "he considered" thing is kind of weak tea, really.
I mean, how many of us have "considered" murdering our spouses, but most of us don't really consider it for very long, or in any serious way.
Now, "made preparations to do it" is a much more serious thing. Do we have any evidence of that?
“how many of us have "considered" murdering our spouses“
I haven’t and I’d be stunned if any of my friends, co workers, acquaintances, or family members have.
Color me old fashioned but murder is a bit too far over the edge in my world.
Connecticut wingnut murders her tenant,
https://www.rawstory.com/gop-landlady-charged-with-of-tenant-report/
And . . .
Sounds like the darkest timeline version of my c. 2005 landlord & landlady Jim & Sandy.
Wouldn’t “material records” include paper ballots, as well? And mail-in ballot signature envelopes?
All of this stuff about voting machines makes me more willing to believe in my own conspiracy theory that the Russians got in to Florida’s (and maybe other state’s) 2016 election computers and changed the vote in Trump’s favor. Trump always accuses others of cheating the way he does. And there is actually evidence that this occurred.
This is actually more plausible than interference in 2020 election, strictly on the basis that almost every electronic voting machine without a paper trail in 2016 was replaced with ones that kept a paper record for 2020. Such machines w/o paper trails were widespread in 2016, but practically nonexistent in 2020.
The justification for the executive order is a litany of assertions about foreign interference in counting votes via the voting machines. Far from changing any minds in the cult, it will be cited as the most powerful evidence yet that the election was rigged.