From Donald Trump during a rally in Florida:
I'm not Christian.
I'm sure he meant to say "I'm a Christian," but his mind's not really all there these days. Alternatively, this is what's known as a Kinsley gaffe, where you accidentally tell the truth.
This was all part of a passage in his speech where Trump told the crowd they would never have to vote again if he won in November. This is being interpreted as a promise to end democracy, but no fair reading supports this. It was just a normal Bizarro world blend of Trump's narcissism and his ego. He's never really cared whether his fans vote for anyone else as long as they vote for him, and that's what's going on here. He's telling them, just vote for me this one time and that's all that matters. In four years America will be so great you won't have to bother voting again.
Or, who knows? Maybe he's promising the rapture will come on his watch and God will do all the voting after that. With Trump these days you really never know for sure.
Trump: You have to get out and vote. You won’t have to do it anymore. Four years, it will be fixed, it will be fine. You won’t have to vote anymore.. In four years, you won’t have to vote again. pic.twitter.com/DBGcBr3Wht
— Acyn (@Acyn) July 27, 2024
> This is being interpreted as a promise to end democracy, but no fair reading supports this.
Then later this:
> Or, who knows? Maybe he's promising the rapture will come on his watch and God will do all the voting after that. With Trump these days you really never know for sure.
Time to hang it up, Kevin. You aren't ready for what's happening.
The fairest reading is that he'll have the elections so slanted in four years Republicans can't lose now matter how unpopular they are.
He already said he needs a 3rd term, and that elections he doesn't win must be rigged.
+1
He clearly is intending to "fix it so well" so nobody will have to vote for him to stay in power.
he knows he shouldn't say this explicitly, and normally succeeds not to say it, but this time he slipped.
Say it isn't so Kevin. Of course it means that he intends to cancel elections if he wins.
It is not helpful to give Trump the benefit of any tiny doubt you can manufacture.
Kevin, thanks for providing a platform which attracts commenters with working minds (mostly). But, sometimes, your opinions suck.
kevin is who he lunches with.
I must have missed something, what controversial person did KD have lunch with?
He occasionally mentions that he had a lunch with Republican friends.
it's a standing tuesday deal.
Actually, Kevin's opinions suck far more often than not. Including this time. Although the "you'll never have to vote again" remark--which Drumpf repeated several times for emphasis--is a typical example of Drumpfian gibberish and it's hard to determine precisely what he meant (or if he even knows himself), there is no doubt that it's related to the end of democracy. Interpreted most charitably, it probably means roughly that he will turn the US into such a (fascist) paradise that there will be no need for the MAGAts to vote since there will be nobody voting against him and/or no one running against him (or his buddies and named successors).
Like you apparently, I'm here primarily for the comments section.
His project 2025 buddies probably said something to him about the elections after 2025 and this is his interpretation of the information. I have no doubt he has no idea exactly what they are going to do. In goes information, out comes his stupid interpretation of it. Think about the disinfectant and strong light comments. He is above all else a useful idiot.
Amen.
Imagine giving Trump the benefit of the doubt in 2024
Exactly.
(I wrote that s-l-o-w-l-y the 2nd time bc the 1st time I got this: "You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.")
simmerdownnow.
Is that a thing?
+1 Man, this crappy commenting software needs a like button. Badly.
Like.
Ordinarily, I might agree with Kevin on this. But this is Donald Trump. This ass-wipe has already sent a mob to overthrow the government. What possible reason do we have for giving him the benefit of the doubt?
Also: why do I only see this post on my mobile and not my desktop?
????????????????????????????????????????
The world dies with him is what he means.
Nothing will exist thereafter so no one will have anything to worry about.
And all we have is four years to wallow in our grandiosity, free of any possible accountability.
So, what can his real doctors be telling him?
I was thinking sort of along the same lines. Trump reveals nothing about his personal health. Maybe he doesn’t expect to make it 4 years
If I’d chosen JD Vance as veep I certainly wouldn’t be revealing that
we already know from his 2019 physical with dr. feelgood that he's going to live to 150 years old.
Didn't Dr. Feelgood recently say that he got the top of his ear blown off? And yet today there was a photo of him, sans ear diaper, completely healed, with the ear intact!
Hallelujah! It's a miracle! Jesus has blessed him and us.
that's because the plastic surgeons in real america (butler, pa) are just that good.
I have no proof, but the fact that he escaped an assassination attempt with just a flesh wound and they killed the assassin, it's not so far fetched to think someone associated with his campaign set it up. With or without his knowledge. Compared to the bat shit crazy conspiracies Trumps cult believes, it's just as likely if not more so. It all seems a bit convenient for Trump.
There is absolutely no reason to ever give Il Duce the benefit of the doubt. And there is absolutely no reason not to hammer him for saying it. Just add it to all the rest of the dictatorial, anti democracy shit that spews out of his pie hole.
This is a going to a street fight with a thug, and if you need to pick up a bottle and break it on his head (figuratively!) then that's what you need to do.
imho this was to grab the spotlight back and define, again, what everyone will talk about for the next news cycle. In political news the week had been mostly about VP Harris ( ok and Vance and the couch ).
I will remain forever incredulous that anyone would vote for him again.
I am really tired of people giving Trump the benefit of any doubt. He hasn’t earned it. He said he isn’t a Christian because he isn’t. He said you won’t have to worry about ever voting again because you won’t. The end.
NYT ran a page 1 story practically trumpeting the claim that Biden had Parkinson's a day after the White House completely refuted the story.
Trump says elections won't matter after 2024 and it won't be a lead story anywhere. Meanwhile, KD (and others!) claim he didn't really mean it.
Unbelievable. This is how democracy dies.
Yeah, but the NY Times did everything to defeat Hillary, and they've had it in for Biden because he won't cowtow to them. Petty POSs
"kowtow"
In the NYT story they quoted him as saying:
“ Mr. Trump, who never made a particular display of religious observance before entering politics, continued: “I love you, Christians. I’m a Christian.”
I mean, really, what the fuck.
it's the sulzberger advertiser's "let's go brandon" moment.
(also, why the hell was the first thing to pop into the minds of celebratory nascar fans the idea that we should yell "fuckjoebiden" (he did not attend the event) instead of cheering the winner?)
I’m guessing alcohol played a part there
alcohol just lowers inhibition.
it doesn't change your ideology.
That nascar race was in Alabama. Enough said.
talladega whites: the ballad of bonesy spursy.
Previous Presidents generally didn't make a particular display of religious observance either - before, during or after their Presidency.
They just went to church, or not.
Donold's only relation to any religion is the display part.
And of course morality, which is what counts, doesn't have to have anything to do with any religion at all.
All the way back to President Washington, who almost never mentioned God or Jesus, but did occasionally reference Providence.
He did this in spite of the fact that he was privately devout: his friends and family all vouched that he took time to pray and study the Bible *every day*. He just didn't talk about it much because he thought religion should be a private thing.
Today's R Party would kick him out.
i'm end enough to remember when hillary clinton was battling endstage parkinson in autumn 2016.
of course, the maga diehards, & antiantitrumpers like greenwald, drum, & the scumbag left podbros, will say trump just says stuff, then point to chanting "lock her up" about hillary in 2016 but never trying to lock her up once he was president. as if john durham is a figment of our imagination
Oh, I forgot. I don't know why I keep forgetting.
But I need to remember that Orange County is on a different, very sanguine, planet.
It's the ghosts of orange groves spiritually scenting the air.
the tragic kingdom piece.
A charitable explanation might be that Trump was specifically addressing the Christian evangelists in the crowd, telling them they'd no longer have to vote (as a bloc) in order to see their vision fulfilled of America as a Christian nation, since this will be the reality regardless of which party controls the government. It's already starting -- see Oklahoma.
That is basically it. Trump promises to pack the judiciary with Christian nationalists at which point public schools will be forced to open the day with bible class K-12 just as the founding fathers intended except for a clerical error.
Even IF it was just “gibberish” as opposed to an (another!) overt statement of his intention to establish an effective dictatorship, why should he get a pass for it? He’s running for fkin PRESIDENT! Why is gibberish ANY more acceptable than overtly antidemocratic intent?
Better judgment please
This
The president should not be prone to gibberish. Especially since many of his acolytes will take it as face value
It’s enough to make one wonder whether he’s too old for this
& isn't that why just two weeks ago kevin drum demanded joebiden resign not just as candidate but as president?
When the person saying those words has already openly opposed and fought against the peaceful transfer of power, it is quite fair to read those remarks as there being a plan to cement republican party control of the US in a way that does not require being voted for.
Is there a law against threatening democracy.... the orange idiot would have it wrapped up.
What a dilemma for Trump, the more he speaks the more his word salads become an issue but if he doesn’t campaign he will be seen as frail. Kind of fun to see the shoe on the other foot. No doubt 90 days of Biden is too old would have sunk his campaign, I can only imagine what 90 days of Trump is old and insane will do to his.
Maybe he plans to cancel elections, maybe not.
But I think the most obvious outcome of another 4 years of Trump is a judiciary that is so reactionary that it does not matter what the public votes for, nor does it matter what the Constitution says. The judges will determine everything according to their right-wing reactionary desires. We will be a Christianist Iran.
Just imagine what damage the SCOTUS can do with a person like Aileen Cannon as a judge.
"No fair reading"? Really? Applying the standard of intellectual fairness to any of His Rapist Fraudster Convicted Criminal Former Majesty's utterances strikes me as bizarre...and more than a little dangerous.
One of the lessons I learned as a local elected official is that an over commitment to fairness in political discourse hands your opponents a tremendous gift. Because they can force you to always play defense...which doesn't generally work out too well.
Of course, an over commitment to >>un<< fairness creates risks, too. Like so many other things, you have to follow what I call the Extended Rule of Moderation: practice moderation in all things, including the practicing of moderation :).
Of course,
It's getting tiresome to do "That Thing You're Worried About (Donald Trump ending democracy)? It's Not a Big Deal to Kevin Drum" so often but here we are again.
+1
Can someone - maybe Kevin - explain the difference between "America is so great you don't need to vote anymore" and "dictatorship"? The former just sounds like euphemism for the latter.
It's possible the Disgraced, Impeached, Indicted and Convicted Former Guy meant "you'll never have to vote for me again", because he intends to abide by the Constitution and never run again. It's possible that he meant to say "I'm a Christian" and it came out "I'm not Christian".
On the other hand, it's fair to say that he told people he's trying to rally that after they vote for him, there won't be any more elections where they will have a need to vote, it will all be rigged so that the "right" candidate wins, regardless of whom the voters supported.
It could simply mean he's not running again and doesn't need anyones vote. We're dealing with an extreme narcasist. His needs are the only ones that matter. He's looking for vindication. After that he won't care much at all. The crazies he let run his administration is another monster all together.
A necessary qualification to any response to Trump's ranting is that he may totally contradict himself tomorrow, and probably will. But it's also useful to remember he lives 24/7 in an isolated cocoon where all he hears are sycophantic praise and predictions of a glorious future after he is reinstated to his rightful position.
So my take from these comments is that it's become commonplace at Mar-a-Lago to talk confidently about the installation of a Christian Nationalist government in Washington after Trump wins in November - Moses Mike Johnson would certainly be all on board - which will clean out the deep state, end all the election rigging, and usher in a new Golden Age in which it would be unthinkable for any serious opposition to exist.
It also helps to remember that Trump is off his head, and always has been.
Without bad faith…..
Republicans would have no arguments at all.
'Don't take Trump's assertions literally!!'
This was questionable in 2016, foolish in 2020 but today it's just plain stupid. Dangerously dense.
Trump clearly said “I’m a Christian.” He also clearly is promising to end elections. C’mon, Kevin. You are better than this.
You are taking Trump literally instead of seriously. I don't know what Trump said, but he isn't a Christian. Then again a lot of people that claim to be aren't. Regardless of what he said, I'm pretty sure the meaning was
"Vote for me and I will pack the courts with so many Christian nationalists like Sam Alito and Mathew Kacsmaryk that voting just won't matter for the rest of your natural lives".
A Kinsley gaffe like when he said "I don't care about you, I just need your vote."
Trump didn't award himself the Medal of Freedom when he had the opportunity.
That's like not cheating on your taxes when you had every possible reason to do it.
He's not the Trump he used to be.
A conservative, plain reading of his words suggest that, (a) he finally came out to Christians that he's not one of them and (b) he's going to fix the elections so that they'll never have to worry about winning in the future.
If you have to contort his words to make sense, you're doing way too much work for him.
maybe being his own thing after so many years at washington monthly & mother jones has gotten old, & drum wants to work for a media outlet again. but this time, the ny times.
Why would you give him the benefit of some doubt? Lambs to the slaughter. Good grief.
Kevin, Kevin, Kevin...are you so naive to not take republicans for what they say. They do it all the time and they mean it...I'm guessing you didn't think they would end abortion rights when they said they would...or end gun control when they said they would...or end limits on campaign contributions....or end birth control which they are saying now...wake up!
I'm with goingBlue
If Tweeto did not mean it, I firmly believe the GOP machine does. If they win in 2024, by 2028 they will be in charge of nearly ALL vote counting and needless to say any GOP vice president vetting will consist of just 2 questions"
1- Do you believe 2020 was stolen?
2- Will you certify any electoral vote where the GOP believes it was stolen?
Short of a landslide and a lot if guillotines , they'll be hard to beat
Well, he was telling his flock that they didn't have to vote-he had plenty of votes....hmmm....
Maybe just send money??? All grift all the time?
Now his telling them to vote. Well, at least this once.
I'd agree with you Kevin, if he hadn't already tried to stage an "auto-coup". His record demands the more sinister reading of his remarks which translate as "one man, one vote, once."