From Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, spokesman for the Israeli military:
This business of destroying Hamas, making Hamas disappear — it’s simply throwing sand in the eyes of the public. Hamas is an idea, Hamas is a party. It’s rooted in the hearts of the people — whoever thinks we can eliminate Hamas is wrong.
This was instantly walked back, but Hagari was just stating the obvious. It's barely noteworthy except for the fact that high-ranking public figures usually avoid ever stating the obvious.
I think Hagari went public with this-- which seems to have been the military brass's position for quite a while now-- mainly because the IDF leadership no longer has input or insight into the war cabinet since Gantz and the other former chiefs of staff resigned.
Despite the walk-back, I would take Hagari's statement as a sign of potentially serious divergence in the relationship between Netanyahu and the Israeli military. In theory, anyway, and certainly a space that bears watching. That's because I don't think it's at all clear that either Netanyahu or a big proportion of the Israeli electorate would agree even their heart of hearts that he was just saying what's "obvious."
I suspect that this isn't so much a divergence between the government and the IDF overall. It's a divergence between the government and the senior members of the officer corps. There is abundant evidence that the lower ranks have become significantly more right-wing over the last few years.
And the Israelis’ brutality on civilians (much of which was unnecessary; Bibi just wants to kill Palestinians) is an excellent recruiting tool for hamas or whatever succeeds it.
I know... this is why we should never punish criminals. It only inspires more criminals.
Actually, that's why prisons are supposed to reform and rehabilitate people, not just punish them. Hurt people just make more hurt people.
And it’s the same excuse given about why we shouldn’t prosecute trump. It only makes people love him more.
Anyway - both the Palestinians and Israelis are irredeemable… a cancer on humanity who offer nothing but suffering, corruption, and destruction.
Can’t let those newborns and toddlers get away with it.
Yeah… that's why Hamas killed little kids too. They want to exterminate each other. And there isn’t anyone who can stop them or get them to change.
Well that's stupid comment.
I read Gazaians with resources are buying their way out of Gaza. To my mind this bit of ethnic cleansing is part of the reason Bibi is killing civilians.
Maybe it’s dawning on the brass that Netanyahu wants the IDF to chase Hamas around Gaza more or less forever, despite taking casualties along the way, so he can remain in office and out of jail.
Yes. Netanyahu and Hamas need each other. And both are willing to sacrifice Palestinians to stay in power.
Hamas’ leaders have believed since at least February 2024 that a Rafah operation would fail to destroy its military forces and assess that Hamas is winning the war. Hamas aims to preserve its military capabilities by relocating to safer areas, which maintains the group’s long-term viability and avoids committing to a decisive battle with the IDF in Rafah.
Hamas doesn’t want a ceasefire. They are winning! When Americans protesters demand a ceasefire they are acting against the Palestinian cause. They ought to sit down and shut up.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/iran-update-june-19-2024
This isn't just dawning on the generals. They figured this out from very early in the campaign. What's changed is that they're starting to go public with disagreements.
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, the brass is obviously correct in its assessments, both of the feasibility of destroying Hamas and of Netanyahu's motives. On the other, I am a very strong believer in civilian control of the military, and I don't like the precedent of the army openly resisting the elected government's policies. It's different if the resistance is over orders by the government to commit illegal acts, which should be resisted, and policy disagreements, which should not. I see no evidence that the top of the IDF believes that the orders they're getting are illegal, but just stupid.
It's unfortunate they couldn't inspire hezbullshit to attack from Lebanon. Now is the time! What are they waiting for? Nuke Beirut now while you still can.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/19/attacks-rhetoric-israel-hezbollah-could-plunge-lebanon-war
This is the same story they've been publishing since October but with another threat to Cyprus!
A threat from Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah to strike Cyprus has ratcheted up tensions even further in the eastern Mediterranean, as the Lebanese Shia group’s conflict with Israel continues to threaten to turn into an all-out war. Nasrallah said on Wednesday that Hezbollah did not want an expanded war, but that it was ready – along with its regional allies – to match Israel’s increased aggression. The threat towards Cyprus is a result of what Nasrallah said was the Israeli use of bases on the eastern Mediterranean island.
There will never be peace. Bring on the war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfbIjVJSzTM
They’ve threatened to attack Cyprus? OK it’s not technically a NATO country, but as it’s kinda/sorta half Greek and half Turkish it might as well be. And it IS part of the EU. Attacking it would invite and justify some heavy retaliation from some awfully powerful militaries.
It wasn't exactly "walked back."
Slightly paraphrasing for brevity, Netanyahu's office responded, "Our goal is destroying Hamas's military and governing capabilities and the military is committed to that." The military then answered, "We're committed to the goals of the war cabinet, Hagari was talking about Hamas as an idea."
In other words, everyone involved tacitly accepted Hagari's premise that Hamas cannot in fact be eradicated. And his argument that Israeli leadership (i.e., Bibi) was deliberately misleading the public by talking about destroying Hamas was left unaddressed.
Yeah, I've been saying this for some time now, as have many, many others. Israel's "destroy Hamas!!" current frenzy is just an excuse for genocide of Palestinians. But it just recruits more volunteers to fight for a Palestinian state, Palestinian freedom!
This is taken as the perpetual re-election machine for Israeli pols. So it's all good! Given that they don't regard anybody other than Israelis as human beings, anyway. The disturbing part is how the United States accepts and abets this strategy.
I’m glad someone had the balls to say this
Hamas isn't an idea; Hamas is the permutation of an idea, with the idea being the expression of solidarity around resistance of an oppressive force.
You can get rid of Hamas, but there are two ways with opposite outcomes.
- The way Bibi and the hardline conservatives are pursuing keeps the foundational idea intact, if not reinforced, which ends up creating a new permutation of the idea.
- The other way is to obviate the underlying idea, which then removes the purpose and support of Hamas. Takes at least a generation to achieve.
+1. Where there is oppression there will be reaction. Also, you can make people scared you'll kill their kids if they rise up, but not once you've done it. Thus the permutation will become stronger, not weaker.
If Israel wanted to diminish Hamas as a political force, they'd liberate Marwan Barghouti, the only Palestinian leader who according to polls would trash Hamas in any election. Also one of the fathers of the Oslo accords. But that would unite Palestinians and also the settlers don't want peace so they won't.
I think Israel is just doing something similar to what we did in Iraq. We massively attacked the whole country blowing up all kinds of buildings and getting rid of the existing government, killing or maiming thousands of Americans and way more Iraqis. Then we installed a democratic government, establishing a successful prosperous democracy recognizing the human rights of all citizens permanently in Iraq, which then spread to numerous other countries in the Middle East in the following years.
Correct me if I got something wrong there.
If Israel is trying to establish a prosperous democracy in Gaza and the West Bank, I must have missed something. Otherwise, yeah. It was great.
Also Hamas is based in Qatar which is about a thousand miles southeast of Israel and virtually impossible to attack.
Right. Hamas is an "idea." Don't you know it's "ideas" that razor off the breast of the woman you're raping so that your friends can play hacky sack with it?
I think you can file that in the same drawer as pre-invasion Iraqi's killing babies in incubators and Oct 7 Hamas beheadings of infants. It is coldly calculated cartoon-level villianization which is intended to make you accept any form of retribution as justifiable.
Just because you have picked a side does not mean you have to abandon all semblance of critical thinking.
Dude, what I described is a thing that happened.