Here is Paul Ratje's now-infamous photo of mounted CBP agents chasing Haitian migrants at the Texas border:
And here is video of the scene, which presents a considerably different sense of what was going on:
Sorting through my footage from the border. I was in the river during the viral incident between a Haitian migrant and mounted CBP agent. It's shaky - but here's what I captured. pic.twitter.com/fnvxSU83tO
— Sarah Blake Morgan (@StorytellerSBM) September 24, 2021
None of this speaks to whether the Biden administration has adopted good or bad policies regarding the deportation of Haitians. It just shows what was happening on that particular day at that particular time.
They may be chasing people around but no one seems like they're actually being chased away.
After looking at a couple of videos and a lot of photos, this doesn’t seem to be an organized effort to push the migrants back across the border. It seems more like the brute squad having some fun.
That is exactly what it looks like.
I’m not sure I understand the significance of the video. It seems to show a variety of senes but doesn’t seem to show that the specific scene of a particular person being ridden down and whipped didn’t happen or is in some sense more benign. What it does show is Biden’s stupidity or timidity of leaving his political enemies in charge of an important agency.
It actually does seem to show the same thing as the photo, just from the reverse angle. The Haitian in the photo can be seen at the right of the video image. He is chased around a bit after crossing the river but breaks away and continues, presumably, back to the camp under the bridge.
It shows the scene from the picture and no one got whipped or hurt. Ratje himself didn't mention the alleged whipping when he was interviewed by NPR.
I’ve looked at the video several times and it does seem to show the migrant being ridden down and whipped but from a different angle. Either way, these people aren’t doing Angola-time.
All of these people in horseback should be fired. They lack sufficient humanity to represent us.
Defund the police, more winning....
I’m not talking about their budget. I’m talking about replacing these awful people with better ones who will be more effective. And better representatives of the American people, who are better than this.
Lounsbury there's a huge difference between bleating "Defund the police" and putting a few CPB agents on admin duty as a prelude to getting them fired.
They're border police, not "représentatives of the American people" - good bloody lord you Lefties need to get some bloody grips.
Policing a border happens to involve things other than singing Kumbaya and earnest talking.
So either you lot are greatly desirous of handing Trumpist a wonderful cudgel of Open Borders in real applied terms - or your Kumbaya thinking is going to get you Trump Term 2.
You can see the exact scene in the video at 17-19 seconds in. Look in the upper right of the screen and see the guy carrying the blue bags. You can stop the video on the exact frame if you want. The "whip" looks to me like the reigns for riding the horse. I don't see any whip.
Not sure why riding horses should get these people fired. Using horses must be practical along a vast border. They are yelling at the people trying to get them to do something, but I bet whatever they were trying to do is appropriate. So fire them just because of the bad optics of one still photo?
They're trying to keep the Haitians from crossing the border illegally.
As you say, the Border Patrol agent is whipping the migrant with long reins which is exactly what people are complaining about. And he and his fellow hoodlums are riding their horses into the group of migrants to terrify and injure them. These are both techniques are strictly forbidden to police equestrian units. Any mounted law enforcement officer using his horse in this way would expect to be fired (at least before the rise of the police unions).
how much discretion do you think biden, or any president, has anywhere near that far down the food chain?
Roughly 100% or maybe a bit more. Biden needed to start cleaning house one day one and not let up. These people have the ability to completely destroy his agenda and his presidency.
Good god you are fool. No wonder the Lefties live in a permanent state of disappointment
Just as Trump was prevented from a purge by civil service statutes (and rightly so) so is Biden. It is complete ignoramus magical thinking to write what you wrote.
"Biden needed" = Keyboard warrior waste of electrons
Trump wasn’t prevented from doing anything. And he certainly was able to very substantially remake the DOJ and FBI in very shot order. And since Biden has apparently decided to live with those people implementing his programs and policies, it is likely that the changes Trump successfully made will become permanent.
You can't replace 90% of the personnel of something. It's just not possible.
As a person who once worked in a government agency, people almost always want to keep their jobs and promotional opportunities. They will get the message if you wipe out a goodly number of senior management. The idea of killing one to terrify ten thousand would work like a charm in the Border Patrol.
"People in charge"
Trump was good at corrupting agencies--and DHS and Border Patrol already had many issues. It's not just changing a few people at the top--some sections probably require to be completely rebuilt from the bottom up. That's the thing, it's always easier to corrupt and destroy than it is to build up--and it takes a lot of time and effort. Right now, the Biden administration is in triage mode while they focus on the pandemic, debt ceiling, etc...including reuniting families torn apart under the last administration.
But these are the people who are going to be carrying out Biden’s policies related to all those things or related to his ability to influence events. The example of reunification of families is an example: this is surely a noble undertaking but the mechanics are being carried out by people who were already right wingers and became even more virulent under Trump. If there’s no consequences for defying Biden and undermining him, you can be absolutely certain that Biden’s agenda is going nowhere.
So border guards outnumbered and with inadequate means try to stop unauthorised border crossing.
Bizarrely American Lefties decide to play into Trumpist propaganda hands by engaging in foolish teeth gnashing and moaning, fire the Border Guards for not ... what Speaking Very Sternly to the persons crossing the border illegally, or not doing the Left approved handing out of candy and greetings?
What the Biden admin did makes the most sense, they sorted through the crowd and took into custody families wanting to claim asylum and put mostly men who came alone on a plane back to Haiti. Another percentage of the folks went back to Mexico.
Interestingly enough most of the crowd came from Brazil and some Trumpist characters were there recently. Strange that the crowd was able to get up to Mexico from there. Was this a rat-fuck job as the expense of the innocent desperate people?
The reality is that these aren’t not asylum seekers in the sense of fleeing from political, ethnic, or religious persecution. The hope is that they’ll all apply for asylum but it will be years (perhaps many years) before their claims are rejected and in the meantime they’ll receive work permits. And, as you say, this group is coming from perfectly safe third counties so their claims for asylum as even weaker than other Haitians. These are obviously economic migrants.
This influx is parent of a trend that started with the Reagan administration. Traditionally, there was minimally restricted movement for Mexicans seeking work in the North. There were almost no consequences and few, if any, criminal prosecutions. And, there was a tacit and mutually beneficial understanding that Mexico would jealously guard its southern border.
As that tacit understanding began to unravel, Mexican workers looked to earn money in the North were forced to choose between remaining in Mexico or emigrating with the families (and, paradoxically, burdening our schools and health care system). And the Mexican government became less and less zealous (and much less brutal) in preventing migrants from reaching the US-Mexico border.
"And the Mexican government became less and less zealous (and much less brutal) in preventing migrants from reaching the US-Mexico border"
This is actually completely backwards to what happened. Free transit through the country is a basic human right enshrined in Mexico's Constitution, which is way for a very long time Mexico did very little in terms of immigration enforcement at its Southern border, or in trying to go after people with expired visas, or similarly irregular immigration status who were already inside the country. Deportation
or detenrion was also extremely rare, requiring a judge order for it, and only if the person had committed an actual crime (immigration offenses had always been considered administrative offenses, paid only with a fine).
It wasn't until Lopez Obrador came into power and at the behest of Trump that he sent the military and police forces to start cracking down on immigrants as brutally or worse as their US counterparts.
Like all written constitutions, Mexico's enshrines a lot of rights that have historically not been accorded to disfavored groups. In times of economic stress, Mexico's border with Guatemala has been closed and the few economic migrants getting through were often treated with brutality that would shock a Texas Ranger.
The issues regarding Mexico’s border with the US are of far more recent origin, especially as regards African, Chinese, and other Asian economic migrants. And the things you attribute to the recent (very disappointing) government were taking place at least during the Fox Administration and perhaps even earlier.
https://cis.org/Report/Mexicos-Forgotten-Southern-Border
A bit of a rationale calculation. You can use google maps to make a very rough calculation of the time it takes to walk from a city in Brazil to Mexico. then reflect on the Trumpists visita few weeks ago. Then reflect on doing basic maths.
Perhaps you think the Border Patrol should simply crucify migrants and other criminals. We could line our Southern border with crucified migrants as Crassus lined the Appian Way with defeated rebellious slaves. MAGA!
It's the eternal problem on the left: Shooting yourself in the foot because outrage gets the better of you.
You can see the exact scene in the video at 17-19 seconds in. Look in the upper right of the screen and see the guy carrying the blue bags. Nothing bad happened. The "whip" looks to me like the reigns for riding the horse. I don't see any whip.
When did anyone say "whip"? The words used were "whipping." You don't need to use a whip to whip. In fact, the articles all referred to "whipping" with "reins."
(And okay, this one is below the belt, but if you had read the articles, you'd also know how to spell "reins.")
Yeah, I have to wonder whether we can't countenance any kind of application of physical force in controlling groups of people moving. Whipping would not be acceptable, but that's not what this was.
So, a guy on a horse feels powerful and starts chasing a poor dude on foot. Likely his(the riders) only time to be powerful. There needs to be something between this and sending them back to make things sane. How about sending agents to start processing these folks, or not.
There were 17,000 people at that border area, so what did these assholes on horseback think they were going to accomplish by chasing a handful of them around, whether or not whips were used? The video doesn't mitigate anything about the shocking photograph. A few years ago Americans found out that we torture prisoners. Now we discover that we also whip people whose crime is stepping over an arbitrary line in the desert.
The problem is -- and thanks to the Republican Party for this -- a bunch of Americans are afraid that migrants are going to take their jobs, fuck their daughters and vote themselves into office. As a result, nobody in Washington dares make any reasonable proposal, let alune do anything substantive about immigration.
Of course I meant "...let alone..."
"Now we discover that we also whip people whose crime is stepping over an arbitrary line in the desert."
You can see the exact scene in the video at 17-19 seconds in. Look in the upper right of the screen and see the guy carrying the blue bags. You can stop the video on the exact frame if you want. The "whip" looks to me like the reigns for riding the horse. I don't see any whip. The whole incident looks very minor.
Photo could be a Goya masterpiece, were it not for those plastic bags. Video indicates this is a non-story.
The CPB would probably more successful if they had a sheep herder and his dog, these horsemen are all parade riders and can't handle their animal worth a damn.
Re-watching the video several times, it looks like the migrants are crossing the stream/river and coming into the US, and the US border agents on horses are telling them to go back to Mexico. So they are trying to hold the line but the migrants are running past them. My guess is all the migrants who ran past the agents will get quickly picked up and sent back to Haiti.
The border agents on horses were actually doing the migrants a favor. The WSJ reports this: "The migrants have been streaming back into Mexico from Del Rio, Texas, where as many as 16,000 had gathered in recent days under a bridge on the U.S. side. As American officials this week began rounding up hundreds of the Haitians and deporting them to Haiti on aircraft, many who remained returned to the Mexican side to avoid being sent back to their impoverished and chaotic nation."
I bet all of them would rather live in Mexico than get sent back to Haiti. I know I would choose Mexico.
Regarding the still picture, you can see the exact scene in the video at 17-19 seconds in. Look in the upper right of the screen and see the guy carrying the blue bags. You can stop the video on the exact frame if you want. The "whip" looks to me like the reigns for riding the horse. I don't see any whip. The whole incident looks very minor.
You've repeated this like 5 times. Being whipped by reins or a whip is still being whipped. You can argue it was minor maybe it was, but it's still being whipped.
In Hawaii during the pre-statehood period when sugar cane plantations were owned by White people and a mix of Asians under various forms of contract were working the cane fields. The White owners employed Portuguese field bosses who rode horses and kept watch over the contract workers.
Before them, America had White slave owners whose field bosses rode horses corralling Black slaves who got the uppity idea that they were born free men.
If you think the video shows something benign or unoffensive, perhaps you might be White.
If the agent was using the reins to whip the person, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a whip, reins, a switch or a piece of leather rope. Whipping is whipping and not right.
It looks like the agent was trying to control him and keep him from entering the country, but I don’t see any whipping in that video.
Yes, horse allow for speed, dominance and control. I’ll agree to that.
We’re talking about Border Patrol agents who were trying to keep people from entering the country. It looks to me they were doing their ‘job’ that we pay them for.
Are you a idiot??? The slaves were labor property. You do get that don't you? These are invading scabs. Stealing jobs away from Hispanics. Got it yet fool???
Exactly what I was thinking. These pictures recall terrible scenes from (fairly recent) American history. The details don't matter.
Conservatives are against the idea of kindness, they don't think it exists outside an immediately self-interested motive.
They think they want to be the wolf not the sheep, but they end up as the wolf not the wood cutter.
They are very much FOR the idea of kindness to themselves.
Lol, those "migrants" are scabs, are against the working people. That is what a " real" leftist would say. How they came up here is because Republicans doing business in South America told them to come up here.
Fwiw, the majority of border guards are Hispanic Americans. You better believe they don't want Haitian darkies taking jobs from their people.
In all these comments, I don't see anything asking or answering the obvious question: what do these agents believe their job is? If it's to keep people from crossing the border, what exactly should they have done instead of what they are doing in this video? Someone gave them instructions. What were they? Did they come out of some official operating manual? Are they consistent with legal procedures?
I don't know the answers to these questions. Perhaps we should all try to find them.
And please, my eyesight is not perfect, but can't we all agree that there was no "whipping" here? I watched it 3 times.
Honestly, reading the comments, riding a horse is purely a practical act given the terrain. It is also meant to dissuade those crossing the border from doing so as there is no way anyone is going to outrun or outmaneuver a rider on a horse. Would it be better if the US border patrol just stationed machine gun batteries along the border or maybe just let everyone who wanted to to walk in? I haven’t read any comments as to how one otherwise stops illegal crossings across a roadless expanse of desert scrubland? Why don’t we all now tell physicians how to triage patients when no hospital beds are available due to Covid? Let the professionals do their job and their superiors determine what is/is not acceptable. Biden has no personal responsibility here. Is it Biden’s fault that every time I enter the USA from Canada, with my US passport in hand, that I am treated as if I am a subhuman criminal? Seriously, my 12 year old son after going through US immigration time after time one day asked me why Americans are alway so mean? I blamed Obama.
I watched the video in slow motion over and over. I don't see any whipping. The guy on the horse has both hands on the reins. He let's go of them with his right hand so that he can grab the guy with his right hand. The long reins then are partially flapping lose. His left hand continues to hold the reins so that he can control the horse.
Also, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas denied that Border Patrol agents used whips, explaining to reporters that agents use "long reins" to control their horses, not whips.
I see how the still photo looks disturbing, but it ends up being a nothing burger.
What we're seeing is intimidation and violence and not respect for other humans.
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