Kay Ivey is getting tough on her fellow Alabamians:
The Republican governor of Alabama has said it is “time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks” for rising cases of Covid-19, amid concern that months of misinformation over the need and efficacy of vaccines is fueling a resurgence of coronavirus infections in several states.
....“Folks are supposed to have common sense,” said the Alabama governor. “But it’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the vaccinated folks. It’s the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.”
I have a confession: My immediate thought was that perhaps the Black population of Alabama was the least vaccinated, and that might be why Ivey was eager to blame them. But that was unworthy of me. It's also not true:
I dunno, maybe this is a case where we could use racial tensions to good purpose for once. "Come, my Black brothers and sisters, let's show the white devils we can kick their asses on vaccine common sense. Get the jab!"
I'm joking, of course. Sort of. Yes, I am. Maybe. But yes.
Diabolical Asian plot seems to be working.
It all makes sense now
Tua Tagavailoa was the set-up.
ROFLMAO! Thanks for bringing some cheer to what has been, for me, an otherwise rather dismal day.
Ugh! That was meant as a reply to cld's post, not KD's original.
*This* is the time when you'd want to push the 1-shot J&J. The 2-shot mRNA vaccines won't have enough time to have any discernible effect on mitigating the Delta wave, but the J&J would.
The immediate prospect of dying has a way of clarifying priorities, but sadly, it'll be too late for most folks who remain unvaccinated.
Except the J&J shot is much worse than the mRNAs, enough that serious consideration is being given to recommending J&J recipients get 1 Pfizer booster.
Is there some reason a person couldn’t get both vaccines?
Probably depends on government policy. Here in Canada because of possible side effects of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, Health authorizes stated it was okay to mix vaccines (eg AZ first dose - Moderna or Pfizer for second).
“The immediate prospect of dying has a way of clarifying priorities, ….”
But maybe not in the way we would think . A CBS reporter talked with a COVID patient recovering from pneumonia in a Louisiana hospital this week and the patient made it clear that he still preferred the virus over the vaccine.
"Before you got sick," (reporter David) Begnaud asked Scott Roe, "if you would have had a chance to get the vaccine and prevent this, would you have taken the vaccine?"
"No," Roe said. "I would have gone through this, yes sir… Don't shove it down my throat. That's what local, state, federal administration is trying to do - shove it down your throat."
I’ve heard the same thing from other recent on-the-street interviews: “Don’t tell me what to do!” … It could be that with some of these people, we need to stop trying to get them to think of other people — they just don’t care — and switch the pitch more to, “We want you to take the vaccine because we care about YOU. We want YOU to live.” Couldn’t be any worse than what we’re doing now.
I recall hearing "don't tell me what to do" from one of the nationally-syndicated radio wingnuts, who said he had decided not to get the vaccine. He said it's like PETA telling him not to eat meat. Also, "I don't know exactly what's in that needle."
These are people who speed up to try to beat the train at railroad crossings and think stop signs are an unconstitutional abuse.
He saw
The train
And tried to duck it
Kicked first the gas
And then the bucket
Burma-Shave
I'm telling you not to listen to those trying to tell you what to do!
"Don't tell me what to do!!"
Yeah. The logic of a two year old. With even less consideration for the health or happiness of anybody else. That former guy sure was a powerful role model, wasn't he?
That's survivorship bias, though. Ask the dead.
bebopman, my cousin refused to get the vaccine. He probably would have said hell no, I'd rather get the Covid. Problem is, he got Covid and now he's dead. That's the real pity about vaccine hostility.
That shitbag pretending to be a human almost assuredly spread COVID to multiple people while he had it, and then went to a hospital to then expose hospital staff to COVID.
At this fucking point, unless you have a documented illness that prevents you from getting vaccines, you should be denied to be treated in a hospital. Full fucking stop.
I'm sick of the general public putting people at risk of death because they feel like it, and then come crawling to the hospital when their dumbfuck decisions blows up in their face.
Got the vaccine and got COVID? Come on in. Refused to get a free vaccine for COVID and got COVID? Good luck, shitbag.
We had +600k increase in vaccinations yesterday so it's working on someone.
Like I keep saying, the other comparison point is with drug culture.
And I see the exact same pathologies on the left re drug culture: denial that there's a real problem (even up to the near death experience), insistence that the values and experiences are worth even death if necessary, denial that the creation/presence/evangelization of such a culture affects anyone but those who choose to be part of it, now the perversions of language so that everyone involved can use newspeak to pretend they're not even part of what they're part of
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/anti-vaccine-groups-changing-dance-parties-facebook-avoid-detection-rcna1480
I don't take sides, but what drives me crazy about US politics is the ongoing sheer idiocy, the unwillingness to see that when you countenance unacceptable behavior or mental contortions by "your side", or cheer on some outrageous legal theory, it's only a matter of time before that same behavior loops around to attack you. It took 50 years for this to happen in the case of drug culture -- and who'd have predicted it would take this particular form? But gravity always kicks in.
Right. 'Drug Culture'. Let's go with that.
Son, do you think for even half a minute before you post?
'And I see the exact same pathologies on the left re drug culture: denial that there's a real problem (even up to the near death experience), insistence that the values and experiences are worth even death if necessary, denial that the creation/presence/evangelization of such a culture affects anyone but those who choose to be part of it, now the perversions of language so that everyone involved can use newspeak to pretend they're not even part of what they're part of'
I've been part of the "drug culture" for 4 decades, and not a word of that made the slightest bit of sense.
Nothing is 100%. I have read that the vaccination rate is climbing in the regions with the highest hospitalization and death rates, so it appears that some people are getting the message.
While much is made in the media of “hesitancy” in the Black community for obvious systemic and historical reasons, there is much less attention paid to the far more prevalent problem of lack of access to the vaccine. Quite simply, Black Americans are materially less likely to be close to a vaccination site, informed about it, and able to take the (sometimes considerable) time to get to it. This in turn requires more outreach and more resources to mitigate, which resources states like Alabama seem for some totally mysterious reason unwilling to provide.
The same is materially less likely to hold in the White community. There, simple stupidity is more prevalent.
Ivey is right about the latter, which of course means she’ll be declared apostate by many MAGAts.
Nope, access is given too much weight. They got access.
It does follow access, and that includes rural white areas too. Which goes hand in hand with broadband internet, especially when trying to get appointments early on.
Perhaps true in some places, but at this point I don't think you can say this generally. Consider poorer red states like Alabama, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Black and white vaccination rates are the same for blacks and whites even though blacks are poorer on average.
The black-white disparities show up in the richer blue states with big cities where many blacks live. Look at stats for New York, California, and Illinois. And these places have outreach programs. This suggests blacks are hesitant for reasons beyond being poorer than whites.
Dallas’ mega-site for vaccinations at Fair Park closed in July after six months of operation. The site was selected specifically for easy access for blacks living in south Dallas. But over time not enough people were showing up.
You do realize that it hasn't been six months since young adults have had permission to get the vaccine? And Fair Park's mass clinic been closed for two months. And required a car to access. And had limited hours. And they ask for insurance and work isn't likely to give time off?
Fair Park center vaccinated 500,000 residents before closing, so certainly many people were able to access it. I'd say it was a success.
If you live in south Dallas now, there are typically five locations within a mile from your home where you can get a vaccine, and most don't require an appointment. Dallas County just started a door-to-door covid vaccination promotion program. I assume residents have much better vaccine access than in rural many rural areas.
I can't find stats on the south Dallas vaccination rate to compare to other areas.
I can't find the data for Alabama (they don't appear to combine race and age data together), but in Minnesota you can see very clearly that Black Minnesotans over age 65 are doing fantastic in terms of vaccination: 95.8%!!! https://mn.gov/covid19/vaccine/data/index.jsp
If access to vaccines were really that bad for minority communities, we wouldn't have 95.8% of elderly Black residents vaccinated here. (Note: Alabama's Black population is much more rural, so that may be affecting their access in a way that isn't happening in Minnesota.)
But overall vaccination rates for Black residents aren't all that great. Where vaccine uptake is breaking down is among younger people. For ages 65+ and 45-64, Black Minnesotans outpace White Minnesotans by about 8 percentage points. But then everything flips, and for 19-44 year olds Black Minnesotans are a full 10 points behind Whites.
There is clearly a feeling among many people in the Black community here that the vaccine is very necessary for mom, dad, grandma, etc, but not at all necessary for young people. I would not be surprised if that is also true elsewhere in the U.S.
We clearly need to figure out how to convince young Black people to get vaccinated. They will need their own specific messages and incentives. Now that elderly members of the community are well covered, the old "do it for your grandma" message isn't going to work well.
I decided to check to see if I could find similar data for other states. Not all states have easily accessible data that includes both age and race, but Georgia does: https://insights.arcgis.com/#/view/2a30216b919a428fbd34ca8d1ccc9bd3 (I had to scroll down the page a bit.)
Their data is also separated by sex, so there are two sets of numbers. But the pattern is the same: older Blacks are more likely to be vaccinated than Whites, but younger Blacks are less likely to be vaccinated than Whites.
Here's Georgia's data:
Women/Men Blacks Whites
Age 10 - 17 12/12 13/12
Age 18 - 44 28/22 35/29
Age 45 - 64 54/47 46/41
Age 65+ 80/76 75/75
There's a real difference between men and women, but it's quite remarkable that middle-aged Black men are more likely to be vaccinated (47%) than middle-aged White women (46%). I'll join Kevin in blaming Fox news for that.
What are you talking about? Almost every pharmacy and Publix offer the vaccine. Access is not an issue for anyone.
You need to go 18+. This shows a wider gap in Alabama of 10%
I don’t think I’ve ever been more offended by a K. Drum post. Black folks in Alabama really don’t need you using them to make fun.
If you're going to appeal to cranks you have to appeal to crank psychology.
Well, I must be some kinda racist, because I don't understand that level of offense. Or is it yet another example of Don't tell ME what to do!!"
Could you explain? Or am I just to be written off as hopeless?
Lakeshore nick is a racist, so...
I'm sure it must be Pelosi's fault.
And … Ivey is also a woman! Coincidence? Oh no, clearly a conspiracy!
Nope, it's Trump's fault. Everything is, right, "progressive?" LOL
!! Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Unless it's a 24 hour clock, in which case, only once.
Well it is true that in Alabama then blacks are more of a problem than whites. But just barely 29% to 30% based on kevin's figures. Adjusted by age, I expect that then whites are more of a problem.
But this is not what I think you see in most of the usa . Even adjusted by age, black vaccination rates are significantly lower than white. Did kevin cherry pick Alabama to try to make his point. If Alabama is the state where black vaccination rates are the closest to whites out of 50 and still a touch lower, really not making any valid point.
And I am seriously asking. Is Alabama broadly representative of a large group like southern states here or just an outlier? California I know the black white difference is stark - and asians not as far ahead and Hispanics better than black.
I have heard that many places though Hispanic rates are lowest so I doubt that for Alabama is an outlier.
Either way you look at it though either 29% or 30% is pretty bad. What is the point of which is worse?
The only clear point I can see from what Kevin is posting is that he unfairly thought the Republican governor might have been being racist and realized he was wrong and is sort of apologizing. That sort of thing is why I do respect Kevin.
And I am seriously asking. Is Alabama broadly representative of a large group like southern states here or just an outlier?
Sigh. Why don't you do your own research and report back? Still waiting on that apology, BTW.
Because I have not found a source that easily shows vaccination rates by race for each state. And maybe someone else knows a good source and can tell me where to look? Seriously what is offensive about asking. And the point was that I was not trying to be argumentative, I really was not sure and would not be surprised if the pattern was different in the south..
I think I have done a good amount of research and posted what I found here and my conclusions, whether you agree or not. I have put in my share of work on that and have thanked those like golack who do more. Surely you can find ot in your heart to allow me to ask a question some times.
And what apology for what? If you asked for one for something, I missed it. Point me to that post and I will either apologize if warranted or will tell you why I do not think it is deserved. But honestly do not know what you are talking about.
I found this breakdown by race/ethnicity for each state with what was literally a twenty-second search on Google. You've been given a link; come back to us when you've done your research.
Ok fine, I did not find that and thank you for posting it. I do not know why you have to be so snippy about it. I am sure many are better at searching for things than I am, so sue me. If I had found that myself I would have just mentioned it so others could use.
Looking at it, would appear that as I suspected, Alabama is an outlier or part of a small group of a few deep south states ( Alaska, miss, la) where black vaccination rate is not worse than white. So not useful in trying to argue that nationally black vaccination rate is not part of the problem.
The other outlier group in that direction is a few states with fewer blacks ( ak, Idaho, ore) where perhaps black numbers are just small enough that means nothing or maybe blacks are clustered in the urban areas and easier to reach.
What I do think is interesting is what others have posted showing that the age differential is a bigger issue for blacks. Thus in some places, maybe overall black vaccination rate is worse but better for elderly. Which could mean black vaccinations are more effective in preventing deaths than for whites.
Also, it is fair to weigh vaccination rates by age. Younger people have less of an incentive to be vaccinated as lower risk to covid and were eligible later. Thus even if everything else equal, younger populations should be vaccinated less. Part of the national gap, but not all, is simply a factor of age and not race itself. Factoring that in, I would guess that the 1% advantage for whites in ala really means being black is slightly correlated more with being vaccinated.
Still would like to know what you think you are waiting for an apology about. Did you just confuse me with someone else?
Okay, so tell you what: I'm willing to admit that I may -- that's _may_ have jumped to conclusions as to your motivation for being here based on some of your posts. If that's the case (and really, I hope it is; one of my tenants is that most people are basically good), I apologize.
Now that you have access to that data, I'll be interested in your findings.
Addendum: I didn't read most of your post, but in re why I think/thought you were a troll, in at least one of your posts, you invited people to prove to you that you were wrong. Uh-uh. That's not gonna happen. Most of us here play scientist rock.
Kev and his "progressive" buddies are blatant, stone-cold racists. LOL
Dude, you were just protecting Trump in a previous comment. Kinda ruins your trolling schtick.
Frank Luntz discovers about the only thing that will force the recalcitrant to get vaccinated would be a vaccine passport system,
https://www.rawstory.com/covid-19-vaccine/
“Folks are supposed to have common sense,” said the Alabama governor.
Er, has anyone told her what state she is governor of?
“Y’all, we are not Louisiana, we are not New York state, we are not California,” she said on Thursday, according to the Montgomery Advertiser. “Right now is not the time to order people to shelter in place.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/27/alabama-governor-wont-order-shelter-in-place-because-we-are-not-california-by-population-its-worse/
She seems to know the states she’s not governor of. The above quote is from last year when other states were issuing shelter in place orders. She rode the wave of COVID skepticism and now her state is paying the price. If she thinks someone should get the blame she should look in the mirror.
SENATOR TOMMY TUBERVILLE LIBEL.
I think her comments are a bit disingenuous when she is the same governor that signed a bill to keep businesses from requiring vaccines for their workers, and colleges from requiring vaccines to attend. She also lifted mask mandates early. NOW she's blaming her constituents for the problem. I think she's part of it.
Sorry, Kay Bailey. It's your circus, and those are your monkeys.
Different Kay.
Imagine Florida over the next few months as no one gets on cruises, goes to Disneyworld, or will send their kids to school -- and take note, all of these make for great TV news shots.
Goodbye Desantis; feel satisfied that being forced out of office is a lot less than you deserve.
Of course, you appove of what Killer Cuomo did in New York. As long as a Democrat is killing people, you're all for it. LOL
Hard shutdowns, social distancing, mask requirements you mean? Yeah I imagine Desantis will be there soon.
Shouldn't you be in class right now?
Why do you think no one is sending their kids to school? School starts in two weeks and everyone is sending their kids to school. And Disney is not closing. It was open for almost all of 2020. It's not going to close now.
To reiterate a point I made previously: Contrary to what Libertarians claim, people constantly make poor choices, in no small part because we all have difficulty resolving our cognitive dissonance.
Heh. Making poor choices practically defines libertarianism.
Is there any aspect of Reality that does NOT contradict the claims of Libertarians?
"maybe this is a case where we could use racial tensions to good purpose"
Hey Kev, you rich Anglo "progressive" racist, tell it at your next KKK meeting, worthless scumbag.
"LOL". TFIFY
Satire: how does it work??
True story: Guy comes from a local business to spec a job at my house and make an estimate. I offer my hand and tell him I'm vaccinated. He takes my hand, maskless and says he's not. Then explains why.
I'm thinking: That's fine for you, man, but what about me? I go inside, wash my hands, keep my distance and look for someone else to make an estimate.
This, in the middle of an outbreak of Delta variant in the area. What a d*#k.
Something that makes an impression is when you say to them, 'When you die of covid it's exactly like drowning except it takes three weeks, so if you want to spend three weeks drowning, go for it.'
Odds are they've never heard anything like that before.
Cld,
Have you had success with that actually convincing people?
In my experience, that is the type of argument that does not work. If they could conceive that they might have any significant chance of dying in the first place, they likely would already be vaccinated.
And most people under age 65 or 70 are not worried about how they will die, just they do not want to die soon.
I have not talked with anyone older than 63 who has not been vaccinated. So maybe this would work better with people old enough to have accepted death in near future and are now just hoping it is an easy death. Of course, I think many of the very old probably left instructions to just let them die if they get very sick from covid and not go through the torture at the hospital.
I don't know whether I have or not since I don't actually hang out with complete dunderheads, but the two people I did say it to seemed quite taken aback by it, exactly as if they'd not once seriously thought about it, and, I would guess, there is not one person they actually know who ever has, either.
You say he explained why. What was the reason? To me, why they are not vaccinated makes a big difference as to whether or how much I would think he was a d*#k. Although if you are working for someone else, should be masked if unvaccinated or even not ( unless they say no problem) as in that case you should respect the customer's beliefs not yours.
But maybe you have a bit of fault too. You "offerred" your hand without knowing whether they were vaccinated. If you are still uncomfortable with that while vaccinated ( and do not blame you for that) do not offer your hand.
I have a similar story. A few months ago while using our condo pool most afternoons, I was becoming somewhat friendly with a young African American mother who was bringing her 5 year old out to the pool most days. Back then I was at first still wearing my mask in the pool and keeping a big distance, looking sort of the fool ( and probably was foolish). She seemed like a very nice person and level headed and intelligent.
After a while we had been taking some days and I had gotten comfortable enough to unmask outside and not keep quite as much distance. But we never actually introduced ourselves.
Well one day she introduced herself formally finally and stuck out her hand. Moment of truth. Do I ask her if she is vaccinated ( I sort of assumed she was as had no signs she might not be). And insulting maybe to just ask and especially refuse. Actually I had not introduced myself before to avoid this situation.
Well I did just shake her hand. Felt weird as had hardly even touched anyone for a year. But then I was careful to not touch anything especially my face with that hand and when leaving I picked up my things with my left hand. Had to get back to wash that hand!
Well she noticed. Told me that later and thought it was funny - not insulted.
Well from later conversations, no she was not vaccinated. And we did discuss it amicably although had to restrain myself because reasons were really stupid ( like magnetizing vaccine).
But now she is vaccinated. Announced that to me a few weeks ago and was happy to be vaccinated. And said I was a major factor to get her to do it! My second success..
'“Folks are supposed to have common sense,”'
LOL. And Alabama to boot....
"I don't want to be treated like a child!"
"Stop acting like one."
Conservatives are the very reason that a Nanny State exists.
Can someone explain to me why the phrase- and concept- of Civic Duty appears to be hopelessly obsolete, and wholly missing from this discussion?
Or, can we write that off, as well, to the selfishness of Boomers, that I keep hearing about?