Yesterday I put up this picture:
As a matter of courtesy, not law, I asked what this bicyclist should do. Just stay there because it's a bike lane and that's that? Or, because it's also a right-turn lane, move up a bit and let the right turners make their turns?
I genuinely didn't know how this was going to go, but I didn't expect such a lopsided response:
I'm surprised that such a huge majority think she should stay put. Is that because many of you don't live in states where you can make a right turn on red? It doesn't matter there, of course. Aside from that, though, it takes no effort to stop a little further up instead of right in the lane blocking traffic. So why not do it?
Apparently this argument cuts no ice. Bicyclists can stop where they like, and motorists shouldn't worry about it. End of story.
The bicyclist has nowhere to go! To allow the red car to pass while moving up, she would at minimum have to block the crosswalk and possibly even put herself into the intersection. That's dangerous!
Her other choice is to squeeze way to the left, where she's either in the blind spot of the pickup or so close to the open passenger window with someone sitting there that they could touch each other. If she's to the left of the bike lane and near or in in the traffic lane, now she has to veer to the right to get out of that lane when the light turns green. By moving left, she's also encouraging cars to pass on the right, which is going to keep happening as she moves to the right to get out of the traffic lane after the light turns green, again putting her in danger.
I'm not sure why she stopped as far back as she did - possibly she's concerned about the pickup turning right into her path? But her stopping at the crosswalk and in the bike lane would change nothing for anyone in that situation. There is no other place for her to be that makes any sense.
I've driven cars A LOT in high cycling areas, and cyclists going faster than you WILL pass you on the right as you wait for pedestrians or traffic to make your right turn. It's positively suicidal, and it happens constantly. The safe thing to do is to move your car close to the right hand curb once the dashed lines start so cyclists *can't* pass on the right and must either line up behind you, or pass on the left, so they're out of your right turn path.
Tout à fait !
Honestly I think both statements are true. It is perfectly fine for the bicyclist to stay put, but it would be generally helpful to position their vehicle in a way to improve traffic flow. This is no different from cars when going straight on some smaller streets to pull to the left side of their lane to make room for cars behind to turn right.
I see no scenario where the bicycle should move in order to make way for the vehicle.
1. That appears to be a bike lane.
2. Even it it weren't, if instead of a bicycle it was a car that was going straight rather than turning, should that car that is in front pull onto the sidewalk to allow the vehicle behind to turn ?
Bicyclists drive me nuts - generally speaking they DO NOT follow the rules of the road. In this case she was. Yay. That's why drivers get a license to operate a vehicle; obtaining one is supposed to mean a basic mastery of utilizing the rules to determine right of way and safer operation of 2000 pounds of metal and plastic at speed. If you don't know and follow the rules, you are an accident waiting to happen, and a chance to meet me.
The sort of thing I would expect from cyclists. But this is small potatoes compared to riding the wrong way up a one way street, or on the wrong side of the street, or in a pedestrian crosswalk and then up on the sidewalk, or blowing through stop signs and red lights. There is one gaggle of cyclists in my neighborhood that regularly blocks a busy intersection so everyone in their gang can go through the red light.
Here's a clue, cyclists. You're driving a vehicle, and in most states that means you obey the same laws as a car.
Don't get me started on the lunatics on scooters.
I previously asked about what ppl thought about the ability of bicyclists in Portland to ride through a stop sign.
It obviously makes sense if there's no one around, but I've seen many bicyclists go through stop signs even when there's traffic, regardless of their right of way. I think this is just accidents waiting to happen, but it's so low down the priority list of things for police to enforce.
I think it'd be a lot safer for all if every other street were alternatively bike/walk and car traffic so that everything was separated and only the car streets had stop signs.
As ever, the details matter. 🙂
In general, I strongly prefer if either bicycles or cars in the right lane move to the left edge to share the lane with right turners. But some roads, there's just no room for that, and that originally seemed to me to be the case in the picture.
If, there was room, as your followup post suggests, then it would have been basic politeness to move up and left. But I have found that most folks on the road barely manage common awareness, and expecting politeness is too high a bar for my blood pressure. It's nice if she does, but OK if she doesn't.
The red car should not be in the bike lane in the first place. It should stay in the right hand car lane and then turn right across the bike lane at the intersection -- while being very careful about bikes on its right.
Bikes and cars shouldn't mix. If car people have problems with bike people, they should talk to their council critters about improving the situation for bikers.
What do people do in Denmark?
Also, at my favorite stop light, if cars making a left turn can't be bothered to make room for cars wanting to turn right, then bikers can also damn well not make room.
As others have asked, where is this “little further up” that allows enough space for cars to turn right? It looks like that would be *in the intersection*.
The pickup is legally positioned to make a right turn, which he could decide to do at the last minute. Whose fault is it if he collides with the red car in the bike lane?
This was a hard one for me. Here in New Mexico bikes seldom stop for red lights.