MSM treatment of Trump has been hysterical claims of the end of the world since 2015 or so. This endless stream of exaggeration has taught everyone who might actually be influenced by the MSM to tune it out.
Will it be different this time? Well, maybe – but I have ZERO reason to believe your particular MSM claims as to why.
MSMS treatment of Biden has been to ignore the concerns as to health (and electability of Harris as a plan B) right up to the point that they cannot be ignored any longer.
The details differ, the commonality is that MSM has served the country incredibly badly, primarily by telling the Democrats what they wanted to hear and very little else. By telling only cartoon stories about Trump, they have alienated >50% of the population, who will never trust them again. By telling only fairy stories about Biden/Harris, they have delayed the inevitable to a point where everything looks like (because it is!) an un-co-ordinated mad scramble.
cdunc123
Hmmm, hard disagree about the Trump coverage. The MSM has too often normalized that freak show, I think.
Marlowe
And that's the polite reply. This risible rewriting of recent history has about as much truth as a Drumpf social media post.
Dr Brando
Those "hysterical claims" were about a guy who abused his power to engage in a conspiracy to disenfranchise the 81 million Americans who didn't vote for him and was scary close to making that happen.
chumpchaser
They also told fantastical stories about OJ Simpson. Did you know he was a comedic actor? And did a lot of funny commercials? And that he was a phenomenal football player? All of that is ignored!
But go ahead, media. Pile on. I mean, you commit a handful of murders and suddenly the MSM pounces?!?
cld
Republicans are planning to nominate a criminal psychopath whose every business has been revealed in some way as a fraud when not a colossal failure, who has multiple outstanding criminal trials, has been found guilty of 34 felonies, slander and rape, who openly plans to steal as much money as he can carry away, destroy NATO and surrender to Russia.
And it's Joe Biden who's the problem.
humanchild66
It kills me that this is true but, yes.
I mean, no, Joe Biden is not really the problem. Not at all. And I agree with other commenters who point out that the normalization of Trump is the real problem, such that every liability of his opponents are magnified and generate tons of ink about how they would govern.
I do think that the horrors of a Trump administration are covered, but similar to EMAILZZZZ, there is so much wrong with Trump that it's hard to make one thing stick.
That being said, we can't ignore that we have a Joe Biden problem.
cld
What's the problem, that he might retire before his next term is up?
Compared to the alternative that seems pretty trivial.
humanchild66
I am still dumbfounded, and actualy quite pissed off, that Trump's criminality, his awful economic policies, and the mass murder he committed suring the pandemic, are not covered 24-7.
And there is no universe in which ANY of Joe Biden's liabilities are even close to the disaster that a second Trump presidency would bring.
That doesn't mean there is not a problem. In fact, part of the problem is that in part because of the lopsided news coverage, Biden seems more likely to lose to that awful pile of filth.
That's the problem. We can scream about unfairness all we want. We still have a problem.
cld
None of the alternatives fair any better because they are unfamiliar and will seem like they came out of nowhere, like, you know, it's 'the deep state doing something', or it's Kamala Harris. A lot of places, a lot of the swing states, have serious problems with racism and misogyny and I think she'd do worse in those places than Hillary did, or that Biden would.
Anyone you replace him with is a net loss.
humanchild66
Yeah, I remember when that guy-Orama, olama.....Obama, yeah. That black guy. The loss was embarassing
cld
He didn't start in July.
name99
So by your logic anyone who voted against Rishi Sunak was a racist?
THIS is why half the country no longer gives a fsck about the word "rascist" or "misogynist"...
When you call ANYONE with whom you disagree a racist the end result is that you come across as a spoilt child, incapable of understanding that other people think differently from you, and not smart enough to even criticize them beyond some sort of schoolyard "well, you're a POOPY HEAD!"
If the best you can do right now is insist ever more loudly and hysterically "well Trump is a racist. And he hates women! He does, he really does!! And he really really IS a racist!!!", you're gonna lose. I'm sorry, but I'm telling you the truth.
If you cannot convince about 10% of the country that Team Democrat consist of adults, you are going to lose. And screaming "everyone who disagrees with me is a racist" does not come across as rational adult behavior. Not to me, not to 60%+ of the country.
How can you not get it through your thick skull that neither Trump nor his supporters CARE if you call him and them racists? Not because they are but, because like me, they have nothing but CONTEMPT for people who use that word as a supposed way to end arguments, a suppose way to claim "well I'm right and you're wrong, and I don't have to justify myself".
cld
?
name99
"Kamala Harris. A lot of places, a lot of the swing states, have serious problems with racism and misogyny and I think she'd do worse in those places than Hillary did, or that Biden would.
"
You made the accusation that people won't vote for her because "racism". Then you want to pretend no, that wasn't what you meant as soon as someone calls you on it?
cld
No, I'm saying there are a lot of people who will be motivated to vote against her because of that.
Which I think was my clear and obvious point.
Additionally, a large percentage of marginal voters, people who rarely or never vote, are exactly the people who can be motivated most over this topic. The kind of people who voted for George Wallace in 1968 rather than Nixon.
name99
No your point is that
- if someone votes against Kamala Harris that MUST be "racism"
- but if someone votes against Rishi Sunak that's just good sensible voting.
In other words "racism" means nothing but "agrees with me".
Which is what I said.
cld
Listerine just tastes like the hard stuff, and swallowing it is really bad for you.
dausuul
No. The problem is that he's going to lose.
If Biden were up 10 points in the polls, or even 5, this would be a very different conversation. But he was losing before the debate. The debate was where he had a chance to turn things around, and instead he turned his slow downward glide into a dive.
You can complain about the media or the voters or whatever all you want, but this is where we are. If the media laid off Biden from here on out and went 24/7 on Trump's crimes, it wouldn't come close to salvaging the situation.
What Biden should be doing is a round of unscripted interviews and town halls, at all hours, to show that he's still got it. Why isn't he? Because he can't. He *hasn't* got it. I resisted that conclusion for a long time, but circumstantial evidence has been piling up for months -- I mean, look at his decision not to do the Super Bowl interview. And now we have direct evidence.
The silver lining is that Democrats still have time -- just barely -- to change course. Either swap in Harris or do the mini-primary and choose a nominee at the convention. I'm coming around to the idea of the mini-primary, on the grounds that a party headed for defeat is better off with a big gamble than a small one, and I am not at all sanguine about Harris's chances.
But even Harris is still better than going forward as we are. With Harris, there is a possibility of surprise upside -- she might turn out to be a much better campaigner than I think. With Biden, the surprises are all downside. One more event like that debate will absolutely finish him. And there are five months to go.
cld
If there were 'one more event' then there'd be Kamala Harris, available at any time. There is no need to force an issue and create a horrible spectacle when you may end up there anyway, because that's all that would be talked about until November. The focus on Trump would be completely lost, and that's where the focus has to be.
There are no Democrats who would do better starting from this point in July, and at the same time I think Trump is a lot more defeatable than many seem to think.
His extreme criminality and foulness of character, while motivating to some, are highly motivating to others to vote against him, to vote for anyone else.
This entire campaign against Biden is to de-motivate the people who would vote against Trump and to remove the spotlight from Trump's criminality. There is nothing else to it. Why help them?
Any alternative to Biden has a worse chance. In the best case scenario they may have an even chance, but I can't think of anyone, in any realistic projection, who would be a better candidate.
You'd be starting in July from nothing. Where can this take you?
Heysus
I believe we are all worn out. The election cycle begins immediately after the swearing in. Most countries spend about 2 months and zillions fewer dollars to elect officials. When will we stop monetizing this blood sport! Like Melanoma, I have almost reached the " I don't care" stage. I have cancelled NYT, WaPo as I simply cannot take the noise any longer.
samccole
I mean, I guess. But at the same time, a lot of Republicans *did* call on Trump to step down after Access Hollywood, and that was a lot closer to the election. I really hope Biden does step down but for now we're similarly situated.
One nice thing I think you can fairly say about us, is that there's not a cult of personality surrounding Biden like there is about Trump. But that might say more about Biden than about our good character.
humanchild66
While I think that Joe Biden and Donal Trump are worlds apart, perhaps not even the same species, when it comes to personal integrity, service, effectiveness, and cognitive capacity (yes, even now, acknowledging that Biden's impairment is more serious than we knew), I have seen some cult-like behavior of "top Democrats" lately, and even many commenters here an on other sites.
It's true that every sane politician is held to a different standard that Donal Trump. And its true that this is unfair. I remember Pres Obama calling them out the day after Trump won the election in 2016.
But I do feel somewhat betrayed by those closest to Biden, especially as so many of us-and Kevin!!- have been out there defending him against the narrative that he is senile. They appear to be chosing to remain powerless, tiptoeing around his feelings, and, unforgivably, keeping VP Harris out of the limelight and denying the Democratic electorate the chance to see, what I believe to be true, that she should be running right now, She should be running as the President.
I don't blame Biden for this, but I do blame the people around him for protecting his feelings at the expense of my fu*king democracy.
We rightly blame the GOP for never standing up to Trump. Again, Biden is NOTHING like Trump in any way. But since about Monday or so I have just had the inescapable feeling that they are not being straight with us.
And that article yesterday about the governors, I mean come on. Surprise, surprise, 2028 hopefuls want to make sure President Harris never happens, but they told us absolutely nothing to assuage our concerns about Biden.
It's not good.
kahner
the parties, at least in large part, have different responses because they have different voter bases. the republican base doesn't care about trump's incoherence, lies and crimes. they in fact revel in it.
cld
The FBI agent who was obsessively pushing the Hillary's emails story was convicted of being a Russian agent.
Coincidence?
cld
Kevin quotes Othello up above,
Trifles light as air are to the jealous confirmations strong as proofs of holy writ. —Iago
CHICAGO —July Fourth was a violent 24 hours across Chicago. At least eleven people have been killed and over 50 hurt in separate shootings.
Just give up.
Jasper_in_Boston
Although the MAGA crowd is usually a 100% worse than Democrats on just about everything, I believe in this case it's not so much the virtue of Democrats that's on display.
Rather, it's A) the GOP thinks that, despite his many flaws, Trump can win.
B) Many Democrats, by contrast (I think the majority of elites) are terrified Biden cannot win, given his deteriorating brain.
It's naked self-interest, and quite rightly so, because a Trump restoration would be disaster.
CEL1956
Hey, want to have some fun?
Do a search for "Hillary Clinton Health Scare."
You'll see an entire page of media hits on Hillary from the 2016 campaign, about how she was falling apart, deathly ill, and keeping her impending demise a secret from The People.
Maybe you've blanked the 2016 Presidential Campaign from your mind, but I think you should take a trip down memory lane and recapture how it felt to see the MSM bulldoze, sabotage, and undermine the Democratic Presidential nominee back then.
Because they're using the same playbook now.
And the same people are falling for it.
Humans really are too stupid to live.
Jim B 55
Part of the problem of course is the presidency. All this concentration (and this concentration of power) on a single individual. No rational person would design such a system starting from scratch these days.
Treatment by whom?
MSM treatment of Trump has been hysterical claims of the end of the world since 2015 or so. This endless stream of exaggeration has taught everyone who might actually be influenced by the MSM to tune it out.
Will it be different this time? Well, maybe – but I have ZERO reason to believe your particular MSM claims as to why.
MSMS treatment of Biden has been to ignore the concerns as to health (and electability of Harris as a plan B) right up to the point that they cannot be ignored any longer.
The details differ, the commonality is that MSM has served the country incredibly badly, primarily by telling the Democrats what they wanted to hear and very little else. By telling only cartoon stories about Trump, they have alienated >50% of the population, who will never trust them again. By telling only fairy stories about Biden/Harris, they have delayed the inevitable to a point where everything looks like (because it is!) an un-co-ordinated mad scramble.
Hmmm, hard disagree about the Trump coverage. The MSM has too often normalized that freak show, I think.
And that's the polite reply. This risible rewriting of recent history has about as much truth as a Drumpf social media post.
Those "hysterical claims" were about a guy who abused his power to engage in a conspiracy to disenfranchise the 81 million Americans who didn't vote for him and was scary close to making that happen.
They also told fantastical stories about OJ Simpson. Did you know he was a comedic actor? And did a lot of funny commercials? And that he was a phenomenal football player? All of that is ignored!
But go ahead, media. Pile on. I mean, you commit a handful of murders and suddenly the MSM pounces?!?
Republicans are planning to nominate a criminal psychopath whose every business has been revealed in some way as a fraud when not a colossal failure, who has multiple outstanding criminal trials, has been found guilty of 34 felonies, slander and rape, who openly plans to steal as much money as he can carry away, destroy NATO and surrender to Russia.
And it's Joe Biden who's the problem.
It kills me that this is true but, yes.
I mean, no, Joe Biden is not really the problem. Not at all. And I agree with other commenters who point out that the normalization of Trump is the real problem, such that every liability of his opponents are magnified and generate tons of ink about how they would govern.
I do think that the horrors of a Trump administration are covered, but similar to EMAILZZZZ, there is so much wrong with Trump that it's hard to make one thing stick.
That being said, we can't ignore that we have a Joe Biden problem.
What's the problem, that he might retire before his next term is up?
Compared to the alternative that seems pretty trivial.
I am still dumbfounded, and actualy quite pissed off, that Trump's criminality, his awful economic policies, and the mass murder he committed suring the pandemic, are not covered 24-7.
And there is no universe in which ANY of Joe Biden's liabilities are even close to the disaster that a second Trump presidency would bring.
That doesn't mean there is not a problem. In fact, part of the problem is that in part because of the lopsided news coverage, Biden seems more likely to lose to that awful pile of filth.
That's the problem. We can scream about unfairness all we want. We still have a problem.
None of the alternatives fair any better because they are unfamiliar and will seem like they came out of nowhere, like, you know, it's 'the deep state doing something', or it's Kamala Harris. A lot of places, a lot of the swing states, have serious problems with racism and misogyny and I think she'd do worse in those places than Hillary did, or that Biden would.
Anyone you replace him with is a net loss.
Yeah, I remember when that guy-Orama, olama.....Obama, yeah. That black guy. The loss was embarassing
He didn't start in July.
So by your logic anyone who voted against Rishi Sunak was a racist?
THIS is why half the country no longer gives a fsck about the word "rascist" or "misogynist"...
When you call ANYONE with whom you disagree a racist the end result is that you come across as a spoilt child, incapable of understanding that other people think differently from you, and not smart enough to even criticize them beyond some sort of schoolyard "well, you're a POOPY HEAD!"
If the best you can do right now is insist ever more loudly and hysterically "well Trump is a racist. And he hates women! He does, he really does!! And he really really IS a racist!!!", you're gonna lose. I'm sorry, but I'm telling you the truth.
If you cannot convince about 10% of the country that Team Democrat consist of adults, you are going to lose. And screaming "everyone who disagrees with me is a racist" does not come across as rational adult behavior. Not to me, not to 60%+ of the country.
How can you not get it through your thick skull that neither Trump nor his supporters CARE if you call him and them racists? Not because they are but, because like me, they have nothing but CONTEMPT for people who use that word as a supposed way to end arguments, a suppose way to claim "well I'm right and you're wrong, and I don't have to justify myself".
?
"Kamala Harris. A lot of places, a lot of the swing states, have serious problems with racism and misogyny and I think she'd do worse in those places than Hillary did, or that Biden would.
"
You made the accusation that people won't vote for her because "racism". Then you want to pretend no, that wasn't what you meant as soon as someone calls you on it?
No, I'm saying there are a lot of people who will be motivated to vote against her because of that.
Which I think was my clear and obvious point.
Additionally, a large percentage of marginal voters, people who rarely or never vote, are exactly the people who can be motivated most over this topic. The kind of people who voted for George Wallace in 1968 rather than Nixon.
No your point is that
- if someone votes against Kamala Harris that MUST be "racism"
- but if someone votes against Rishi Sunak that's just good sensible voting.
In other words "racism" means nothing but "agrees with me".
Which is what I said.
Listerine just tastes like the hard stuff, and swallowing it is really bad for you.
No. The problem is that he's going to lose.
If Biden were up 10 points in the polls, or even 5, this would be a very different conversation. But he was losing before the debate. The debate was where he had a chance to turn things around, and instead he turned his slow downward glide into a dive.
You can complain about the media or the voters or whatever all you want, but this is where we are. If the media laid off Biden from here on out and went 24/7 on Trump's crimes, it wouldn't come close to salvaging the situation.
What Biden should be doing is a round of unscripted interviews and town halls, at all hours, to show that he's still got it. Why isn't he? Because he can't. He *hasn't* got it. I resisted that conclusion for a long time, but circumstantial evidence has been piling up for months -- I mean, look at his decision not to do the Super Bowl interview. And now we have direct evidence.
The silver lining is that Democrats still have time -- just barely -- to change course. Either swap in Harris or do the mini-primary and choose a nominee at the convention. I'm coming around to the idea of the mini-primary, on the grounds that a party headed for defeat is better off with a big gamble than a small one, and I am not at all sanguine about Harris's chances.
But even Harris is still better than going forward as we are. With Harris, there is a possibility of surprise upside -- she might turn out to be a much better campaigner than I think. With Biden, the surprises are all downside. One more event like that debate will absolutely finish him. And there are five months to go.
If there were 'one more event' then there'd be Kamala Harris, available at any time. There is no need to force an issue and create a horrible spectacle when you may end up there anyway, because that's all that would be talked about until November. The focus on Trump would be completely lost, and that's where the focus has to be.
There are no Democrats who would do better starting from this point in July, and at the same time I think Trump is a lot more defeatable than many seem to think.
His extreme criminality and foulness of character, while motivating to some, are highly motivating to others to vote against him, to vote for anyone else.
This entire campaign against Biden is to de-motivate the people who would vote against Trump and to remove the spotlight from Trump's criminality. There is nothing else to it. Why help them?
Any alternative to Biden has a worse chance. In the best case scenario they may have an even chance, but I can't think of anyone, in any realistic projection, who would be a better candidate.
You'd be starting in July from nothing. Where can this take you?
I believe we are all worn out. The election cycle begins immediately after the swearing in. Most countries spend about 2 months and zillions fewer dollars to elect officials. When will we stop monetizing this blood sport! Like Melanoma, I have almost reached the " I don't care" stage. I have cancelled NYT, WaPo as I simply cannot take the noise any longer.
I mean, I guess. But at the same time, a lot of Republicans *did* call on Trump to step down after Access Hollywood, and that was a lot closer to the election. I really hope Biden does step down but for now we're similarly situated.
One nice thing I think you can fairly say about us, is that there's not a cult of personality surrounding Biden like there is about Trump. But that might say more about Biden than about our good character.
While I think that Joe Biden and Donal Trump are worlds apart, perhaps not even the same species, when it comes to personal integrity, service, effectiveness, and cognitive capacity (yes, even now, acknowledging that Biden's impairment is more serious than we knew), I have seen some cult-like behavior of "top Democrats" lately, and even many commenters here an on other sites.
It's true that every sane politician is held to a different standard that Donal Trump. And its true that this is unfair. I remember Pres Obama calling them out the day after Trump won the election in 2016.
But I do feel somewhat betrayed by those closest to Biden, especially as so many of us-and Kevin!!- have been out there defending him against the narrative that he is senile. They appear to be chosing to remain powerless, tiptoeing around his feelings, and, unforgivably, keeping VP Harris out of the limelight and denying the Democratic electorate the chance to see, what I believe to be true, that she should be running right now, She should be running as the President.
I don't blame Biden for this, but I do blame the people around him for protecting his feelings at the expense of my fu*king democracy.
We rightly blame the GOP for never standing up to Trump. Again, Biden is NOTHING like Trump in any way. But since about Monday or so I have just had the inescapable feeling that they are not being straight with us.
And that article yesterday about the governors, I mean come on. Surprise, surprise, 2028 hopefuls want to make sure President Harris never happens, but they told us absolutely nothing to assuage our concerns about Biden.
It's not good.
the parties, at least in large part, have different responses because they have different voter bases. the republican base doesn't care about trump's incoherence, lies and crimes. they in fact revel in it.
The FBI agent who was obsessively pushing the Hillary's emails story was convicted of being a Russian agent.
Coincidence?
Kevin quotes Othello up above,
Trifles light as air are to the jealous confirmations strong as proofs of holy writ. —Iago
Is it real, or is it the Pitchbot?
https://nitter.poast.org/DougJBalloon
(Halfway down there's a nice note about Olivia Nuzzi.)
The problem with America isn’t so much the political system as it is the, you know, Americans. Barbarians.
https://youtu.be/a3l_AE7bSZE?si=kd-pWFFAgjQRYhGF
And also…
CHICAGO —July Fourth was a violent 24 hours across Chicago. At least eleven people have been killed and over 50 hurt in separate shootings.
Just give up.
Although the MAGA crowd is usually a 100% worse than Democrats on just about everything, I believe in this case it's not so much the virtue of Democrats that's on display.
Rather, it's A) the GOP thinks that, despite his many flaws, Trump can win.
B) Many Democrats, by contrast (I think the majority of elites) are terrified Biden cannot win, given his deteriorating brain.
It's naked self-interest, and quite rightly so, because a Trump restoration would be disaster.
Hey, want to have some fun?
Do a search for "Hillary Clinton Health Scare."
You'll see an entire page of media hits on Hillary from the 2016 campaign, about how she was falling apart, deathly ill, and keeping her impending demise a secret from The People.
Maybe you've blanked the 2016 Presidential Campaign from your mind, but I think you should take a trip down memory lane and recapture how it felt to see the MSM bulldoze, sabotage, and undermine the Democratic Presidential nominee back then.
Because they're using the same playbook now.
And the same people are falling for it.
Humans really are too stupid to live.
Part of the problem of course is the presidency. All this concentration (and this concentration of power) on a single individual. No rational person would design such a system starting from scratch these days.