I keep going back and forth:
- When you're outdoors, wear a mask, don't wear a mask, whatever. Everybody should stop yakking about it.
- For chrissake, for the next couple of months just wear a mask and get yourself vaccinated. This is hardly a big ask. We'll crush the coronavirus by the end of June and then everything will be great.
I dunno. I get tired of the folks who make a big deal out of masks, but I also get tired of the immense weenie-ness of a big chunk of the American public. Maybe I'm just tired, period.
The NYT had an article this morning about the rampant antivax sentiment in rural Tennessee. One woman asked what was the point?, the government still wants you to wear a mask, "I just don't see any benefits". Silly me, I thought it was about avoiding getting COVID-19.
Avoiding spreading it.
I mean, who cares if someone with a health problem dies of COVID because you didn't wear a mask? Ugh.
Not only are they willing to take that chance, they're willing to risk others, too.
I thought masks were about not giving COVID-19 rather than not getting it.
The science is not yet conclusive, last I read. The recent research indicated that masks are more effective at protecting others, but also protective to a lesser degree for the wearer. Here’s one paper: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8
Yep.
A US senator recently argued that if you are vaccinated, what do you care if your neighbor isn't? Never mind that the unvaccinated population forms a pool where the virus can breed, profilate, mutate and keep infecting the population over and over again. Toxic individualism!
That’s because real Christians follow Cain who told god that he was not his brother’s keeper and not that wimpy “virtue signaling” cuck Jesus who was always talking about being kind to one another.
said senator has all the intellectual firepower of a potato
Proof that Fred Trump, Jr., & his children got from El Jefe Maximo, Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, et. al., what was coming to them.
Thanks! Someone had to point out the Bible verse that supported today's Republican selfish self-centeredness.
LOL.
That’s a truly insightful and well reasoned response.
When you are injured in a traffic accident or have a heart attack and you can't get a hospital bed because of the COVID patients, you'll suddenly care.
Something else about your unvaccinated neighbors: You've been given a vaccine that is thought to be about 90% effective. That means that if you get vaccinated but no one around you does, there's still a considerable chance that you'll catch covid. But if enough people get vaccinated, the epidemic ends soon and then your chance of being exposed goes way down.
Yes. 90% is very high efficacy (some years the flu vaccine has been only 50% or so), but you are still at some risk. Though the risk of _serious_ illness appears to be much lower than 10%.
Well, that is a good thing.
A US senator recently argued that if you are vaccinated, what do you care if your neighbor isn't?
Ideally, the US reaches solid herd immunity, so that the coronavirus dies out, and nobody gets sick. Which is why we want as many people to get vaccinated as possible. For starters there are some people who won't be able to get jabbed for health reasons, and will therefore remain unprotected save via masking and social distancing. Also, (though people seem to forget this) the approved vaccines, while miraculously powerful at preventing serious illness and death, are not 100% effective (the clinical trial results in this regard were never particularly likely to match real world conditions): about 75 fully vaccinated Americans had died of covid as of mid April. And yes, as you point out, the longer covid remains endemic, the greater the chances we'll be faced with a new, dangerous variant (possibly even one that evades antibodies induced by the current vaccines).
+1
I am pretty much giving up on herd immunity. We'll be separating into more or less permanent tribes: masked and mask-less. Maybe the mask-less will secede.
It's a fair point. If you religiously wear masks, your risk is significantly lower.
But, if you're a conservative who is against common sense, then, this is just an excuse to continue to reject common sense.
Sounds like she's learned well from her fellow Opryland MAGAT KKKlay Travis.
(Of the original class of sportsbloggers & sportswriting on the Internet progenitors, Bill Simmons, Will Leitch, KKKlay Travis, the Kissing Suzy Kolber Mafia (Drew Magary, Jack Kogod, Mike Tunison, Matt Ufford), Gerard Cosley, the Guys Fawkes at FreeDarko-dot-com, DJ Gallo & his pickle, A.J. Daulerio, who would have thought Daulerio would be the least toxic, fifteen years later?)
What is so dispiriting is having to explain to these dolts that masks are not to protect themselves, but other people around them.
The little flickering burning-out Christmas tree light goes on over their heads as they realize it's not for their benefit, so to hell with it.
I think the more rural the area the more resentment there is for city people to be shoving things down their throats. If I'm a guy whose daily life consists of working my own piece of land with very limited physical contacts with others, I just might resent other people telling me how to live my life. Same with guns and other urban issues where one size fits all values and messaging probably is seriously resented
I think those of who are highly educated mostly urban dwellers really need to be aware of our own self-reinforcing biases and bubbles. Country people lead very differing lives than city people - who are we to judge? And if we continue to judge, how will we ever grow the Democratic Party out of its geographic straitjacket?
Country people lead very differing lives than city people - who are they to judge? And if they continue to judge, how will we ever grow the Democratic Party out of its geographic straitjacket?
FIFY
See what I mean?
What is this weenie-ness that you speak of? I'm vaccinated. When I'm outside I leave my mask down. When someone approaches I put my mask up. In stores, or in any crowd of people I don't know, my mask is up. I think that's pretty close to what the CDC is recommending. Am I being a weenie?
Yes, pretty much. I don't wear a mask at all outdoors. There really aren't any cases of COVID being transmitted by people walking past each other outdoors, even if they aren't vaccinated, much less if they are, like me and you.
Yeah, same here, although I maintain social distancing out of respect for others.
No reason to be an ass, tho.
Yes, pretty much. I don't wear a mask at all outdoors. There really aren't any cases of COVID being transmitted by people walking past each other outdoors...
You must not live in a very blue part of the US.
The bulk of my time in 2020 (when I was stranded and couldn't get back to Asia) was divided between the SF Bay Area and Seattle. While I didn't hesitate to go maskless and breathe freely when no one was near, I rarely felt comfortable going maskless if there were people about. So, for instance, I wouldn't have my mask on very much during a lone urban hike in the evening, when it was comparatively easy to avoid people. But if I were doing errands during the day in the commercial district, I'd typically wear it, even when outside (at least if there were people about, which was typically the case last summer in the various neighborhoods I was staying in).
Also, your "there really aren't any cases" claim with respect to outdoor transmission seems off. It may be true that the authorities haven't positively traced any covid cases to "infection-by-walking-by," but I don't see how this could possibly be ruled out definitively. And that's because we know there are millions of Americans who have had asymptomatic infections, and who have thus escaped official records. I agree walking outdoors without a mask -- even near people -- is an extremely low risk activity. But if the area you're in is even a moderately well-populated at the time, it seems to me masking is prudent. Why not wait until the crowds pass to take it off? YMMV.
I live in NYC. Pretty blue. Mask wearing on the street is declining, from about 95% two months ago to about 85%, I would say.
" . . . but I don't see how this could possibly be ruled out definitively."
Yes, it is impossible to prove a negative. But there's no evidence for a significant risk of transmission outdoors.
Yes, it is impossible to prove a negative.
Which is my point.
But there's no evidence for a significant risk of transmission outdoors.
Agreed, but I would note you (quite properly) use the modifier "significant."
My rule all along has been something to the effect of "Wear a mask when inside a store, business or public facility; no need to wear one outside unless it's crowded."
I think this is reasonable, but I get the impression a lot of people want to eliminate the exception for crowded outdoor spaces. There's obviously a judgment call to be made here (what constitutes "crowded" and what doesn't?) but completely eliminating the exception seems overly aggressive in my view, at least given the highly dangerous nature of the pathogen in question.
This will likely all be moot in the near future, given vaccine progress.
The virus is rapidly dispersed by air currents and killed by sunlight. Cases of transmission outdoors are pretty much limited to being intimate with an infected person or having an infected shout right in your face. "Believe the science" means believing 100% of the time, and not dismissing when it dismisses paranoia and phobia. Wearing a mask outdoors , except under highly unusual circumstances, is about as pointless as fastening your seatbelt when your car remains parked in your garage.
Wearing a mask outdoors , except under highly unusual circumstances, is about as pointless
I agree that wearing a mask outdoors the vast majority of the time isn't necessary. But in urban areas outdoor spaces can sometimes be very crowded. That's not "highly unusual."
I don't know many people that wore masks outside even before the vaccine. Maybe if they were in some large group for some reason, but never just out doing normal things. If someone round here wore a mask while running or biking people would look at him like he had three heads.
The weenies are those who whine about wearing a mask.
The logical elephant under the carpet: Pretty much everyone has their kids vaccinated or they can't attend school (and either start doing for-real home-schooling or run afoul of the law). How is this vaccination different from any other vaccination?
While I am still in the "getting my shots" camp, the difference between this vaccination and (m)any other is its novelty (aka lack of significant track-record) and the speed with which it has been produced. And of course thanks to "It bleeds it leads" we hear about just about every untoward reaction/death possibly associated with the vaccine(s).
The shots pretty much everyone has their kids get have been around for years.
Still testing for those under 18 (16 if Pfizer). Once approved, then yes, ti should be required. Not sure if full authorizations would be needed or if emergency authorization is good enough.
It's different mostly because of anti-vaxxer paranoia, combined with right-wing and libertarian selfishness. Yes, the mRNA vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer) are novel, but they have been trialed extensively (by now, tens of millions vaccinated worldwide) and there is no objective justification for refusing them.
And mRNA technology has been around for a lot longer than that and is well understood. (And please, no ranting from anyone about blood clots ffs.)
Well understood by those who use it perhaps, but likely not by laypersons.
I don't think laypersons understand the technology of "the shots pretty much everyone has their kids get" any better, not to mention that of the flu shots that very many people get every year (which are developed and produced ANEW every year, and which use the very technology that the J&J and AZ vaccines use).
I think more than half of "vaccine hesitancy" is the simple ODD-like behavior of Republicans, for which they'll adopt any excuse, and most of the remainder is likewise an excuse that people picked up from media repetitions of anti-vax propaganda. If it hadn't been (false) "novelty" or the (absurd) claims of speed, it would be autism, or genital warts, or I dunno, loss of 30 points of IQ.
Adding to bbleh’s response, few laypersons know anything about the interaction of electromagnetic fields with living tissue, either, but the brain-cancer scare didn’t dim their enthusiasm for cellphones. Hey, none of my friends have dropped dead in front of me, and I need to check my messages, and responses to my latest social-media post, every couple of minutes, no matter where I am.
That's why they were able to turn it around so fast. The work done on a MERS shot was mothballed after Mideast Respiratory Syndrome fizzled, but the effort wasn't forgotten.
Right wing???? You mean liberal. Most of blacks in the South are rural. Most of the anti-vax liberals naturopath elitists are suburban.
Antivaxxx is Marianne Williamson & Jake Angeli, & Robert Kennedy, Jr., & Donald Trump.
Really, the only place where you could expect Antivaxxx sentiment to be largely fauxgressive bullshit is Vermont. Everywhere else is either a pretty even blend of #OurRevolution & #MAGA, or largely #MAGA.
Mixed antivaxxxia: Oregon, Michigan, California.
Rightwing antivaxxxia: Montana, New Hampshire.
Leftwing antivaxxxia: Vermont.
Actually, Donald Trump has gotten covid vaccine and has urged others to do so as well, although neither he nor anybody else has done much to publicize that fact.
thank you sen. johnson.
I got the Moderna vaccine back in August and September as part of the phase III trial. I've worn a mask indoors at the grocery and at work. I don't wear a mask outdoors, and never did, because it doesn't do any good outdoors.
The reasons to continue masking are (1) to minimize asymptomatic transmission and (2) to protect against new variants that the current vaccines don't work well against.
We need to keep masking at least until we reach theoretical herd immunity.
Also, peace of mind, since until the overall percentage of vaxxx'd people reaches 85% or so, no one can trust very well that the unmasked son of a bitch at the next table at the local bar-cafe isn't an Insurrectionist oafkeeper looking to be Typhoid MAGA.
85% or so is what I meant by herd immunity.
Question for Joel: Have you been advised on when you might need to be vaccinated again?
No. But the director of the local trial is a friend and colleague, so when my one year anniversary rolls around, I'll ask. I'm hoping they'll have the next generation RNA vaccine by then. Since I'm in the Moderna trial, they may not want me to get another shot. Then, I'll have to weigh staying in the trial or leaving it.
Thanks. Keep us posted on developments that are of interest to us all.
Will do!
It does do a small amount of good. It's probably not a big deal but you COULD be doing your part better than you are. However I'm not about to mandate it unless you are in a mosh pit or hindu religious festival etc.
I'm looking forward to when schools open in the fall. ::reaches for popcorn::
Of course, many public schools are already open, including Kevin’s old hometown of Long Beach. Maybe they don’t talk about that where you get your news.
Skip the snark; it's not needed.
The schools close each summer, and in the fall, many NEW students arrive in districts and must present documentation in order to be enrolled, including documentation of vaccination. In addition, many districts (including the one where I teach) have many students, especially high school students, who have been learning remotely and will do so until next year. In some schools, this is a large group. "As of last week, a survey of LAUSD families showed that 49% of elementary school parents wanted their kids to return to the classroom. At the high school level, only 25% of families who participated in the survey said they'll return their students to campuses; and 35% of middle school families said they'll come back to the classroom." https://abc7.com/lausd-reopening-students-teachers-los-angeles-unified/10512553/
So in the fall, I expect that many anti-vax parents will come up against district requirements that their children must be vaccinated, and this will be in the news all over the country.
In Florida about 90% of students are back in person full time right now. Our schools have been open all year. I couldn’t imagine living somewhere where schools are STILL closed. Those students are basically losing a whole year of education. E-learning is not an adequate alternative.
I mean Florida public schools are legendarily bad so...
We'll have to see what the FDA does between now and August. Right now none of the vaccines are approved for kids under 16. The kids literally cannot get vaccinated. Yet.
Special Newb, where did you get your info? FL schools are not "legendarily bad". My school district is actually very good.
No no no no NO! Obviously nobody -- not KD, not the comments upthread -- realize that this is all about MY FREEDOMS!
Wearing a mask, getting vaccinated, reducing the possibility that I might infect someone else who then might die -- those are all about OTHER PEOPLE. But who cares about THEM? What's MUCH more important is how *I* feel about what *I* want to do for ME right NOW!! Wearing a mask might sometimes cause me to feel a little bit uncomfortable, especially if I obsess about it, and I don't WANT to feel uncomfortable and YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME SO YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!
And I don't believe in all this "science" stuff, cuz it's my RIGHT not to believe what I don't want to believe, so THERE!!
Really, it's all very clear if you just think like a dumber-than-average 9-year-old.
I was thinking, your average two year old, but thanks for the excellent statement on how they (seem to) think. Or perhaps "feel" is a better description.
If you’re vaccinated how would you infect someone else?
You wouldn't.
That's the point.
But right now, with vaxxx rate at 55% with at least one poke, it means the motherfucker going into Home Depot or Cinemark unmasked is at least as likely a China Biowarfare Plandemic Believer as a factually intelligent functional adult who is inoculated against the Fake Rona.
There is some evidence suggesting that vaccinated folks can still carry the virus briefly and asymptomatically, but how infectious they are if they are not coughing or sneezing is debatable.
The vaccines have NOT been shown (to current clinical / regulatory standards) to prevent infection with OR transmission of the virus, BOTH of which can occur WITHOUT manifesting any symptoms. (Indeed, a person is MOST infectious BEFORE s/he begins showing symptoms at all; that's one of the sneaky things about this virus.) The vaccines have been shown to be effective (VERY effective, on average) ONLY at reducing the incidence of disease, and 100% effective at reducing the incidence of hospitalization or death from the disease.
In other words, you very much CAN be infected by AND transmit the virus when you are fully vaccinated. The vaccine only inhibits the virus from getting such a foothold that it causes you to develop the disease.
There IS so-called real-world data from Israel that indicates that the Pfizer vaccine ALSO reduces the risk of transmission. That is, the response of the body to the vaccine is so strong that when you have even just a little of it, soon after you're infected but before you show symptoms -- which nevertheless is when you are most infectious -- the body is already busy destroying it, and thereby reducing the probability that you will transmit it. However, this has not been established clinically AFAIK.
and 100% effective at reducing the incidence of hospitalization or death from the disease.
This is no longer the case. The clinical trials rendered the results you mention, but real world use shows a non-zero (but extremely small, to be sure) risk of serious illness and death even for those who have been fully vaccinated. About 75 fully vaccinated Americans had died as of mid April (when, IIRC, roughly 75 million had been fully vaccinated).
This wasn't studied during the original vaccine trials--they only tested people who became symptomatic. In the trials it is conceivable that there were asymptomatic infections in the vaccinated group, and it is conceivable that they could have, in turn, passed the infection on to others.
Now that the vaccines are in wide use, we're getting a clearer picture of that. And the evidence so far suggests that these conceivable possibilities actually do happen. We know for certain now that vaccinated people can be infected with the SARS-CoV2 virus. There is still some question as to whether they can also transmit it to others, but the prudent thing would be to assume that they can until we have clearer information.
If you're wondering how this is biologically possible, there is a mechanism. The vaccine induces an immune response internally: in the blood stream and internal organs. But the virus can survive on the inner surfaces of the nose, mouth, and throat, where the immune system may have little or no access to them.
This is not unprecedented. The original Salk vaccine against polio prevented children from getting neurologic disease from the poliovirus, but it didn't even slightly reduce their ability to get infected with the virus and transmit it to others. In the case of the polio virus, it was the gut that would harbor and support the virus without the immune system doing anything about it. That was the motivation for developing the oral polio vaccines, which did prevent infection and transmission. (They had problems of their own because they were live virus vaccines and were themselves contagious, and occasionally caused neurologic polio disease themselves. But I digress.)
With a vaccine-resistant strain.
Duh.
"We'll crush the coronavirus by the end of June and then everything will be great."
You think so? Moderna is already testing booster shots to cover the newest mutants. It looks like a signal that SARS-CoV-2 is expected to become another endemic Coronavirus.
Who's paying for these booster shots? What about future first-time vaccination shots and booster shots in 2023? Imagine how much more resistance to SARS-CoV-2 vaccine shots there will be if it costs $25 to get it, even with insurance, and $50 to get it if you're uninsured.
Come fall 2021 and there's a surge in breakthrough infections because there's a vastly more contagious mutant combined with vaccine fatigue, then what?
It's really easy to backslide, is what I'm saying, even if we manage to keep ahead of the viral mutation curve with updated boosters.
Don't oversell a future that you can't guarantee.
That’s certainly one very possible future but it will come about largely because we’ve pandering to the people who are not their brothers keepers. We need to implement vaccine passports for indoors dining and travel. Employers need to require vaccination as a condition of employment.
And we need to very strictly prevent travel in and out of those rural communities where they can’t be bothered to get vaccinated because they don’t care about other people or to own the libs or show their loyalty to Trump. The rest of us want to get back to normal and the vaccines are the only way. Those people shouldn’t be able to dominate the rest of us.
You do realize in the south, blacks are the rural people and if removed from the equation, southern whites are midpack in terms of vaccination?? I mean, you get that right??? The 2 largest demographic of white anti-vaxxers are intermountain state Republicans and large suburban progressives.
Lazy posts need slammed for what they are.
Nothing stopping anyone in a rural area from getting vaccinated and being able to travel among the rest of us. I’m interested in protecting the people who are with the program and are working to get the country back to normal; the point isn’t to punish anyone, it’s to get back to normal quickly.
If black people in the rural south don’t want to get vaccinated they’re as welcome to marinate in COVID-19 as their lunatic white brethren.
Large suburban progressives were held back from getting shots until now due to the allocation of shots by population and priority given to oldsters. In my area they did not open up shots for everyone over 16 until the deadline so I'm getting my second shot Tuesday and younger co-workers are getting their 1st shots this week.
Most of this group would have been happy to have gotten their shots sooner but nobody wanted to shortchange rural areas and hoped against hope that there would be better vaccine uptake in those areas.
What are large suburban progressives? Is there a size standard somewhere that I'm not aware of?
I was using Midgard's babble. In larger metropolitan areas with highly educated population demand for vaccine far outstripped supply until about now so healthy 16-64 year olds depending upon the state regs couldn't begin to look for a shot until late April and the shot appointments were hard to get until about this week in Northern Virginia when a ton more mass vax sites opened up.
Fact is that anti-vax sentiment in general was largely a urban, leftie phenomenon until a few years ago. Think Marin or Santa Barbara.
You haven't spoken with a funeral director in SW Virginia who scornfully "informed" me that the coronavirus is overhyped. He obviously had no intention of getting vaccinated, & his establishment wasn't the one I researched & recommended to my English friend whose Virginia husband is here & in ill health, while she was under lockdown in the UK.
These "hesitant" people are not mostly rural Blacks; while much has been made of those who are reluctant, I have read more recent reports of many being eager to get the shots & urge others to do so.
Tomorrow's Washington Post Magazine (received with my Saturday edition) includes an article about descendants of the victims of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment actively encouraging others to follow their lead & get vaccinated.
Yes, there are some prominent ditsy types who still insist that vaccines cause autism & others who claim that the shots implant 5G trackers, etc., but I wouldn't call th er m all liberals or progressives. Too many are simply anti-science or "Libertarians," a label that seems to mean that the ones who claim it insist on their freedom, but aren't overeager to grant every freedom to others.
I hope that no one here is trying to imply that it's mostly Blacks or liberals who somehow aren't intelligent enough to get the shots, especially since I've encountered mostly rightwing evangelicals who deny the efficacy of vaccines or consider them to be dangerous.
Problem is, blacks also have both issues, their own evangelical wing and anti-vax I am black siders. I think Biden has given up on them.
I'm in camp endemic, I'm hearing experts hint at this outcome and not for nothing the agency I work for is chock full of expertise on this. I'm not one of the experts, I'm a systems accountant, so I'm not read in on anything.
We got informal word this week that they plan to convert my team and the rest of the comptroller branch into full time telework positions (with the usual caveat that they can recall us back to the building at any time.) We'll need to go back to the building to clean out our cubes if we haven't already but we'll only be going back to the building when absolutely necessary such as badge renewal or laptop repair.
This tells me the experts aren't thinking this will be magically over in a month or so.
No, it won't be over, but due to seasonality, it will be at a very low ebb. Meaning normalization will be complete. Whether it flares back up in the fall when viral loads increase is tbd. It may a little, but not enough to matter, which is the point of vaccination.
There's no seasonality whatsoever to COVID-19, maybe you should stop watching OAN.
Go look at the JHU chart of confirmed cases in the US and point out the evidence for seasonality. Take all the time you need.
Well let's see, states open up, a small bump in cases due to 4th celebration. Then a decline the next 2 months. I would call that "in remission" .
Midgard, that’s not evidence of seasonality, it’s evidence that the Fourth of July is, as the name suggests, a one-day holiday.
My wife's company is doing the same thing. But it was more because of the $3M per year lease for two stories in a building downtown. They are keeping about 1/4 of the space they had when they renew the lease.
A number of scientists are skeptical that it even can truly evolve to point of truly ignoring the vaccine. Obviously we don't know yet but mutations may or may not end up being a real problem. The UK, SA, Brazilian, Californian and New York variants all seem to be covered by the mRNA vaccines, certainly to a far better degree than the shitty flu vaccine if less than the old Italian strain. Early data suggests the Indian variant isn't any better at avoiding the mRNA protection either.
If we crush it, then it won't have the reservoir to mutate into a resistant version.
It's no help to think of the GOP as a political party. It's a propaganda and sabotage operation -- and it's very good at those!
The GOP never sees its own interest in making the country run well and people prosper generally; the best thing is to plunder when in power while waiting for the inevitable disaster that puts the Dems in office, then sit on the sidelines and complain loudly about freedom and liberal overreach while waiting for the sabotage operation to bring about another crisis which brings the GOP to power again...
The reason to wear masks is that it's a simple rule, and thus much easier to follow, and it shows concern for others. But the GOP wants things to be complex and it definitely doesn't want Americans having any interest in each other's welfare.
Yes, it's hard to react politely to Senator Scott decry Biden for dividing us, after years of trump doing it umpteen times a day.
They really have a lot of gall, & it isn't just the loud & obviously looney ones.
Wish that the Democratic Party could have found a way to stop the most absurd rightwing propagandists when they spread their lies about HRC, & there should have been united pushback to counter the swiftboaters. Playing nice at all times allows the lies to gain traction & succeed.
I saw that there's a new Provolone Surfboard scandal, but so far the lamestream media havn't bit.
Maybe I will be disabused of their restraint when I watch the rebroadcast of Meer the Press in 15 minutes.
(This week's panel: Hugh Hewitt, Bret Stephens, Eddie Glaude, Jr., & S.E. Cupp.)
Counting Hewitt as ‘Press’ is being way too loose with language.
That whole panel is like a murderer's row of bad faith & hot taeks.
S.E. is my pick to be the new Peggy Noonan once Ms. Noonan shuffles off to meet Ronald Reagan's brown shoe once again.
And yet, Trump *improved* his 2016 performance about Latinos and Blacks.
It's time for all of us to let it go. I've been vaccinated. All those I care about have been vaccinated. Most all I work with have been vaccinated. I'm not planning to hang out with thousands of others in a club or stadium so... I don't care what everyone else does.
Yes, I know, variants... Not anything I can do about that regardless. The risk of illness and death is, sadly, still there. There is no solution to that problem. It's tedious now to obsess about it. I just stay home now. Fine with me. I'm used to it.
By 'letting it go' you are dooming anyone at risk and unable to use the vaccine. You are encouraging vaccine-resistant variants while the pool of mutation is wider.
And basically, giving up now ensures we have to go through this again.
India is doing a bang up job of making variants. When I say "let it go" I mean that we as individuals ought to stop obsessing about it. If I go into a place where people aren't wearing masks or whatever, I just leave. That's it. No reason to freak out.
What would you do? Have the police start arresting everyone? That's not going to happen. So... let it go.
If you are vaccinated wear a mask indoors or when in crowded spaces outdoors.
If you are unvaccinated wear a mask when around other people indoors or out.
That's it.
When cases get down to a few a day (not 50 god damn thousand) and no deaths take off the masks.
It really is simple, has been all along. If you're outside and not close to anyone, don't wear a mask. It's not necessary, not required by CDC guidelines, and just looks stupid -- besides the non-optimal breathing. If you are outside but close to others (6 feet or so) whose vaccination status isn't clear, wear a mask. If you will mostly be distant but sometimes not, wear, keep it under your chin and raise it when it's prudent. If you are with others, do what the least bold (or most exposed) person in the group would prefer. If in a store that wants you to wear a mask, wear a mask.
This will let you be mask-free outside 99% of the time if you are walking, etc.
Also wear a mask when you approach - like within 20ft - for now.
Otherwise, sure, no mask.
“It's not necessary, not required by CDC guidelines, and just looks stupid...”
Plenty of people think burqas. sun visors, do-rags, face paint, etc. look stupid on other people’s faces too... but (allegedly in this country) we’re free to wear them outdoors if we want. Not sure why it’s anyone else’s business if someone wants to wear a mask outdoors, even if covid didn’t exist and even if lots of people think it looks “stupid.” America would be a much better place if people just minded their own business and let others do whatever they want without comment (as long as whatever it is they’re doing has zero effect on others). Choosing to wear a mask outdoors has the same zero effect on others as choosing to wear a burqa outdoors has on others... so everyone else should STFU about it.
I’m going to make myself potentially unpopular by pointing out that I’m entirely sympathetic to the vaccine hesitant. And I’m also sympathetic to them if they feel condescended to by others. Certainly, some of them might simply be trying to own the Libs: but I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about people who are legitimately concerned about vaccines that were developed in record time. Have these vaccines been around long enough for us to actually know what, if any, long term impact they might have on humans? What might the effect be 10-20 years down the road?
And I would add that skeptics have every right to point out that doctors and scientists have failed us in the past. Anyone else remember the thalidomide of the 1950s-60s? It led to tens of thousands of deaths or birth defects. But we don’t have to go back that far. In fact, I’m old enough to remember the opioid epidemic: a devastating scourge that was mostly prescribed to patients by doctors (and, of course, it’s still in the headlines).
Skepticism in the face of western medicine is, in my opinion, always warranted. And genuine vaccine skeptics should quite frankly be taken seriously. They have genuine concerns with both a historic and a contemporary basis in reality;
But, all that being said: I personally depart from their views, and I myself am half-vaccinated. Why? Even though the real vaccine skeptics may have perfectly genuine cause for concern, I don’t think they are making the correct risk-assessment in the pandemic.
I don’t like antibiotics, but there’s a time and place for them. They have saved my life from pneumonia. Similarly, while I do feel there very well could be a risk involved with the COVID vaccines, I believe that risk is less than going unvaccinated in the midst of a Pandemic (look @ what’s going on in India!).
So I personally urge some patience with the genuine vaccine skeptics. Taking them seriously is quite possibly a better way to get them to reassess their risks than belittling them.
I believe that thalidomide was one of the drugs Kevin used to treat his cancer.
The thalidomide tragedy in the 50’s was averted in the USA due to FDA scientist Francis Oldham Kelsey. It’s actually a story that should make people more trusting of the FDA:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/woman-who-stood-between-america-and-epidemic-birth-defects-180963165/
Was it totally averted?
> I’m talking about people who are legitimately concerned about vaccines that were
> developed in record time. Have these vaccines been around long enough for us to actually
> know what, if any, long term impact they might have on humans?
Know with what degree of certainty? Confidence in the safety of the vaccines is based not only on clinical outcomes, but on a considerable body of knowledge about mechanisms of immunity.
Good news, everyone!
Indian scientists flag virus mutations that could 'evade immune response',
https://www.reuters.com/world/india/indian-scientists-flag-virus-mutations-that-could-evade-immune-response-2021-05-01/
cld-
Was bound to happen.
Every year my flu vaccine shot is slightly different. My Doctor, based upon my history either gives me the shot she has on hand or recommends a slightly different shot from say a pharmacy. Last year she recommended the flu vaccine available at Walgreens instead of her own supply.
Now that we have the basis for a COVID vaccine from different manufacturers we should be able to produce a vaccine "adaptation" pretty quickly to address the "rogue" variations.
Add to that the Pfizer situation - their CEO said at their earnings release this week that they expect to have an ORAL medication available by years end. And we could eliminate the virus.
ORAL medications are different. Right now we have to go stand in line and get a shot IN FRONT OF MANY OTHER PEOPLE. So if I'm a republican who thinks this is a hoax, thinks this is some sort of mind control injection, or if I'm a Christofacist who believe the injection is the mark of the beast then the ORAL medication allows me to take the pill (or not) in the privacy of my own home.
I find it amazing that people would go out and protest against LOSS of so called freedoms but they will GLADLY take the pill at home so as NOT to embarrass themselves in front of other individuals. Because we all share the fear of dying or, more so, getting sick and suffering BEFORE dying.
A mask is a public statement of accepting the virus is real and that we need to take precautions even though our favorite politicians said we didn't have to. Same with standing in line to get the shot.
I have no idea what happened to us NOT being embarrassed by being wrong. Edison, Ford, Salk and others found success after repeated failures. They kept at it and kept trying, and we are better for it.
But in today's world being wrong leads to doubling down on the "wrong ness" instead of learning from the mistake
Random comments about masks
Nobody wanted, expected, or even thought the the United States COULD have lost over half a MILLION people to a disease in less than a year. NOBODY. OUR healthcare system is the BEST in the world (even though statistics proves that wrong). Since we believe it's the best what happens anywhere else is unimportant.
The above was made worse by the fact that we had a polarizing President - who - was a failure at many different businesses. He made statements playing to his devout followers like "I don't know how I know these things but people are amazed." Many Americans believed everything that came out of his mouth and REFUSE to believe otherwise
The public discourse - especially the disagreement between scientists, the medical community and the politicians was way too hyperbolic - causing ordinary Americans with no knowledge of disease to frame their opinions through the lens of their political and religious beliefs instead of the science.
ANYTHING that went against our perceived "knowledge" was wrong. Republicans thought Trump was right therefore we had nothing to worry about. Dems were wrong for calling those folks "stupid" making the situation worse.
We have ALWAYS looked at Asian countries as second best. They didn't have our economy - we beat Japan in WWII, Korea in that war, and the N. Vietnamese in their wars so yeah we are far superior in EVERYTHING we do. Over the years the press would post a picture or two of people in Japan or China during flu season wearing masks without blinking an eye. We looked down our unmasked noses at them. They have better healthcare, live longer lives, have lower infant mortality rates. We have FREEDOM to choose among second rate insurers that provide costly medical care which results in a sicker society. But we have the FREEDOM to smoke cigarettes drink obnoxious amounts of alcohol and do other things that are just plain wrong, stupid or affect other people.
We are the exceptional nation alright
Not going to disagree with most of your observations here except this one: “But we have the FREEDOM to smoke cigarettes drink obnoxious amounts of alcohol...” Men drink heavily in many Asian countries... and many Europeans and Asians smoke more often than North Americans do.
Yes, I do know that Asian men can and often times DO drink a lot.
They also work a lot
Eat a different diet than we do
Compete to get into a university
There's a LOT of differences
But at it's core we want the freedom to smoke drink and eat whatever the heck we want whenever we want and in the amount we want.
And we EXPECT the cures to our ailments to be easy and cause no discomfort to us
We are "special" aren't we?
We are pretty much fatter than anyone though. Except a few Polynesian Islands and Mexico (so much for 'starving' people crossing the border for a 'better life').
American exceptionalism can be exasperating.
Wearing masks outside, unless you are going to be in close proximity to others, is just silly.
Wear them inside. I don't get how masks became political. Of course, at the start of the pandemic, all the goodthinkers told us *not* to wear masks.
Mitchell-
It all boils down to droplet versus aerosol argument.
All the goodthinkers told us to wipe clean rather than wear masks ere based upon the droplet argument at that time
Once we realized that was wrong THEN it became Wear masks instead of Wipe clean.
It would be nice if every issue didn't have to break out between blue and red, or didn't have an extreme and overemphasized racial component.
Masking and vaxing are two examples.
Police violence is another. Fact is that cops kill too many people in the US. Fact is that too many cops think that the public can't 'question their authoritah'. But there is little evidence this is a racial thing. I've tried to find mentions of Kelly Thomas (beaten to death by cops in Fullerton) at Mother Jones and in Kevin Drum's personal blogging, and come up with zilch. Maybe my search skilz aren't good enough. But it is truly amazing that that case seemingly attracted zero attention from 'progressives'.
The science says masks work especially inside. Outside unless your close to people they probably don’t make a difference. 6 feet social distancing inside or out does nothing. In other words use hand sanitizer and wear your mask if your close to people and always wear it indoors.
erin-
"The science says masks work especially inside"
The problem is - what are you doing while inside? If you are eating you have no mask on. If you are in school you MIGHT be able to get away with no mask but children could be carriers w/o showing symptoms.
"Outside unless your close to people they probably don’t make a difference. 6 feet social distancing inside or out does nothing."
When we first had the science Looking at the virus they were fairly certain at the time it was NOT an airborne disease. They were concentrating on larger droplet sizes which responded well to anti bacterial sprays and cleaning surfaces. Once they realized the problem was the aerosol portion and the particles stayed airborne THEN they realized the problem was air flow. You put people inside an air conditioned room and the circulation of air in that room (which is designed to heat and cool efficiently - NOT for disease spread reduction) and the air is designed to flow near, over, and around the humans in that room.
So, why is it certain parts of the country did better than others? OK in the south you are outdoors MUCH more in Jan through June but indoors with A/C June through November. Right now Southerners are starting to go indoors more while northerners are moving outdoors. Aerosols versus droplets seemed to be the MAIN disagreement at the start of the outbreak. We thought ordinary cold/flu which is more droplet than aerosol - hence the emphasis on cleaning and sanitizing. Aerosol borne determination changed a lot of minds as to who to mitigate the spread
And outdoors with no walls to confine the aerosols dilution of the aerosols in the general air does in fact work in making outdoor activities much safer - UNLESS you have 80,000 people crammed elbow to elbow in a stadium. In THAT case common. sense would say you are increasing the spread. Why do you think cities and industries dump pollutants into the ocean? A system THAT big dilutes the toxins rather rapidly. Over time it will cause a problem but many people have operated under the old adage "Dilution is the Solution to Pollution"/ That same adage applies to COVID outside
As for sunlight? It's a lousy disinfectant. UV-C light is used for sanitation purposes. It is generated by the sun but it's absorbed by our atmosphere which is why hospitals have to use artificial UVC light generators to sanitize rooms. Aerosol particles can be observed 30 feet behind a coughing bicyclist or a runner but the particles rapidly dilute into the air making is safer to be outside.
The vaccine along with movement to outdoor activity will help the northern tier of states greatly in the immediate future
As Southerners move indoors ONLY the vaccine and mask wearing will help them but they will see northerners w/o masks and with lower case numbers and they will think they can do the same.
What is interesting to note is that republicans took advantage of this aerosol information as just the right time
The initial outbreak was in winter, and northern heavily populated states bore the brunt of the new infections. Southern states, especially Florida were still enjoying outdoor activities. But at this time we were still under the assumption that it was droplet based exposure driven and we ran out of Lysol wipes as a result.
By spring we began to see the stories about aerosols - and by late spring we knew that masks and social distancing were keys to preventing infection UNTIL the vaccines could come into their own
BUT at this time Floridians were beginning to move back INDOORS due to high heat but Gov DeSantis then did two things -he started saying COVID was not that bad and that Florida was in better shape than most states - AND AT THE SAME TIME - took control of statistics releases to the press so that he could then control the narrative to make it look like he was right.
Now that people are getting vaccinated I'm sure he will brag about being right (he already has) but in fact he USED his position to control the flow of information to make it look as though he was right when in fact there was a delay in infection spread due to outdoor activity coupled with control of the information when people moved indoors. Now the vaccine and herd immunity will give him the false sense of accuracy in his policies
It's a novel virus and highly contagious. It's also deadlier than most others. Our sense of superiority needs to be tempered