China senses weakness and is going in for the kill:
TikTok said the app will have to “go dark” in the United States on Sunday barring a last-minute intervention from the Biden administration to halt enforcement of a federal ban.
....“Unless the Biden administration immediately provides a definitive statement to satisfy the most critical service providers assuring nonenforcement, unfortunately TikTok will be forced to go dark on Jan. 19,” the company said in a statement posted on X.
TikTok doesn't need to go dark. US-based hosting services and CDNs have to stop supporting TikTok on Sunday, and both Apple and Google have to remove the app from their app stores. But TikTok has plenty of hosting capacity outside the US, and anyone who already has the app can keep using it. This isn't a long-term solution, but it does mean that TikTok has the option of delaying the shutdown for many months while it works on getting a reprieve.
So why the threat to shut down instantly on the 19th? I have two guesses:
- It's just a garden variety power play against Biden. They're hoping that the prospect of an imminent revolt among 170 million TikTok users will coerce Biden into caving in and extending the deadline.
- It's some kind of weird 4D chess maneuver. They want everyone to know that it was Biden who shut them down and Donald Trump who saved the day when he reverses the shutdown a day later. Why? Just to cozy up to their new buddy. Their CEO has an invitation to the inauguration, after all.
Well, maybe. Who knows for sure. We'll see how it all plays out.
POSTSCRIPT: There is one thing I'm not sure about. TikTok's user data is hosted by Oracle in Texas, and Oracle will have to shut that down. I think. If they do, would that prevent TikTok from operating? Do they have backups of that data outside the US or has the transfer to Oracle been fully completed? I'm not sure.
I don't think it's that complicated. TikTok thinks (rightly, I believe) we'll see something of a national freakout by Monday morning as tens of millions of the platform's users realize they can't use the app. ByteDance wants maximum pressure on Washington in the hope that there'll be a change in policy. Also, I could be wrong, but I doubt switching from Oracle to overseas servers is as easy as flipping a switch. If Oracle stops servicing the US TikTok account, the platform will be moribund on US soil.
I for one, hope it happens, I would like to see a national freak out...
Vapid users raising hell, hollow investors screaming for their dividends, politicians doing backflips to cover ass, popcorn producers working overtime...
I'm with you, pass some of that popcorn.
I for one, hope it happens, I would like to see a national freak out...
Me, too. Fuck around with the first amendment (and the youth vote) and find out.
You grok me. Or I grok you. We grok.
Requiring TikTok to be US owned and controlled is not a First Amendment violation. Remember how Rupert Murdoch had to become a US citizen to own US TV stations?
I'll join you on the couch for that show. It's not like an emergency room is closing, it's a fucking social media app. Get a grip people.
I hope Biden lets it die. Put the onus on Trump to bow to the Chinese government. Do as much damage to TikTok as you can in the meantime.
Well, one of the things at issue was whether they were shipping user data overseas or not. They probably don't want to admit to it if they are. I think they totally are, by the way.
And if you are prepared for a transition like this (and they've had months to prepare), switching to a new datastore is in fact, really easy.
So really, I think what's happening is that their user data site in Texas will shut down, and they don't want to bring another online, because that would admit that they had offshored all that user data.
All the other reasons - maximum pressure and so on - are also solid.
So far, Trump hasn't said, "never mind, turn them back on". What he's said is, "some US company should buy them". And they get a lot cheaper after Sunday night.
Tik-Tok promised not to take user information overseas, so they wouldn't be able to stay online for US viewers unless they violated that promise.
I think Joe's out of fucks to give.
As Julia Louis-Dreyfus once put it when commenting on the significance of her age careerwise, "I have no more fucks left to give. I'm all out of fucks to give."
Perhaps she found no one left who was sponge-worthy? …
Yeah, given that a lot of those people didn't vote for him, eff them.
Apparently they have plenty of buyers at the table, but don't like any of the offers.
Cry me a river.
Does it? And that owned by outside the US companies?
People are pretty much not attributing anything to Biden anymore, if even think he's still doing anything, and otherwise he has nothing to do with this, and the kids aren't dumb and do.
Unless the app has a built-in redirect to foreign servers or they push an update overnight to all users to include a redirect, I don't see how the app keeps working when Oracle and others shut off the servers. If the app has a built-in redirect, it really works against ByteDance's claims that it could effectively wall off personal data from the CCP, don't you think? Biggest self-pwn, ever, to admit you had a event-triggering backdoor redirect all the time.
As ByteDance said, the hosts need guarantees, otherwise TikTok goes dark when the clock hits midnight east coast time.
But that's not going to work; the law does not grant POTUS the power to such a thing. If POTUS -- Trump or Biden -- does so, it will be effectively challenged by Congress. Can Biden or Trump ignore enforcement? Again, all Congress needs to do is to go to court to force it.
But I swear, I'm sick and tired of this bullshit wishy-washiness. Either the app is a true national security threat or it isn't. If it is, WTF are you doing, backtracking on enforcement? This is pissing me off that Biden and Trump are being ambivalent about natsec after claiming it was all about natsec.
Fucking make up your mind.
From his cabinet appointments, it's clear that Trump doesn't give a rat's ass about national security. And from the willingness of GOP Senators to approve those appointments, it's clear that the GOP doesn't give a rat's ass, either.
They are far, far more concerned with internal national security - as in protests and how to shut them down by force. External is clearly not even on the table. Trump just wants to be able to shoot protesters and send in the military to do it, after that he doesn't care. America first, you know.
As Orwell said (or something like it): The purpose of external conflict is to control the internal divisions of society.
I mean, obviously. But if Biden is also talking out of both sides of his mouth on natsec, WTF are we doing?
The administration was negotiating w/ ByteDance until they concluded ByteDance wasnt going to budge. After that, the Biden DOJ helped Congress craft the bipartisan law that he signed.
And now he's got second thoughts on the matter?
That's not how name services and redirects work. The app asks for a name, the name service says where it is. Even if their US physical servers go down, that doesn't mean their address fails.
So, you don't think DNS servers will delist?
Biden: "Yours!"
"... and Donald Trump who saved the day when he reverses the shutdown a day later. Why? "
Because the better off Trump is, the more he can destroy US power. It is the US that is the Chinese government's adversary. As far as the Chinese government (as opposed to the Chinese people) is concerned, Trump is actually on their side.
I suspect this is a pretty clear message to Biden and to Congress: "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
At this point Biden stopped being a lame duck, he's basically a dead duck. Anything he does can be undone. Besides why would he help Trump, who apparently wants the ban dropped or delayed now too?
Trump "wants" the ban to be ignored for one reason and one only: he got a large "campaign contribution" from a major ByteDance stockholder. That some of his young campaign functionaries used TikTok during the campaign successfully is too complex a logical concept for his dementia-shrunken brain to process.
Follow the money.
@Anandakos
When I "follow the money," I find that Trump is not concerned about rewarding TikTok for the earlier bribe. He has never shown a sense of obligation to anyone, from wives to lawyers to piano tuners. His concern is future TikTok bribes: As long as TikTok is online, he can always threaten to shut it down. He wants to keep the gravy train rolling. (and let the other rich people and corporations know exactly how to "negotiate" with him).
Yes, probably so.
If the only thing this law affects are that TikTok is banned from using US based systems but everyone can just go ahead and keep using it anyway exactly as if nothing had happened, how can such an internalized app be shut down?
There might be some other thing like this in the future that really needs to be shut down, how could it be done?
Ahh, SOMEONE asking the actually serious questions...
Meant to write,
how can such an internationalized app be shut down?
TikTok will abide with the law. On the date the law banning TikTok in the US is enforced, TikTok, unlike other American companies and businesspersons, dutifully complies. Only subjects of American exceptionalism could frame that upholding of the law playing hardball.
My hunch on the outcome probabilities:
1. TikTok goes dark permanently: 10%
2. TikTok stays open, ownership remains unchanged: 15%
3. TikTok stays open, sold to Musk (or other right-winger): 75%
China wants #2. Trump wants #3. China's best hope is if Biden acts.
Trump will want to be "hero" and keep the app working but even if ownership is murky in the end he'll want to extract a pound of flesh from China in the process. (That would likely benefit his personal interest more than the national interest. We may never find out about it.)
So what do YOU want?
Awful lot of people saying that Musk wants to/will buy TikTok. Let's even assume this happens. Then what? Presumably Musk will do the same cleansing he did with X, and convert it to "X for the sub-100 IQ", with much less attempt to push divisive content, so that it flips to something like X (ie "balanced" meaning not All Woke All The Time).
So is what you want? Seems like that's a victory for Musk/Trump (and for US, against China) -- caused by them doing exactly what Biden/Woke wanted them to do!
What I see here is a huge amount of flailing but no serious analysis of solutions or consequences, or why such a supposedly desirable property (lots of claims here about how Trump/Musk/ByteDance will get very rich off it...) found ZERO interested buyers over the past year. Perhaps your theory of TikTok is not accurate?
Why should it matter what I want? I mean, I'd like the Lions to beat the Commanders but my desire has nothing to do with the outcome of the game, right?
If you asked me a year ago what should happen, I'd say Congress ought to pass legislation to protect user data across all social media instead of targeting TikTok specifically, but that was never likely to happen. Long ago, that horse left the barn.
Here's something that I would like people to do: wise up. Forget national security. Forget the xenophobia. Those issues are secondary for the moment. It's not about making money either. What's happening in plain sight is a consolidation of all media to bend to the will of Trump and the Republican Party. They want ownership or control by other means, which often happens via threats and intimidation into submission. Fascism doesn't happen with free and functioning independent media. TikTok is a new and influential media platform that is a logical target of the right wing. This is why it's under attack. All the other details are just footnotes. Conservative takeover of media is the story. Wise up.
There are multiple serious billionaire buyers, but apparently the terms are unacceptable or Bytedance just doesn't want to sell.
Tell me how there could be a national crisis over something I'd never even heard of five years ago.
Remember the first time you heard the word COVID? New or recent things become National Crises (or perceived to be) with a lot of frequency.
I see no analogy between a deadly pandemic and a social media platform that we could all live very nicely without.
You asked about how something you only heard about in the last 5 years could be a crisis. I gave you an example of this. If you now want to move the goalposts so "the thing" is limited to social media companies, that's on you pal. Next time make smarter comments that can't be refuted so easily.
@wvmcl2
Well, there could be a hitherto unknown disease, highly contagious (but vector unknown), with no immunity, no treatment, no cure and no method of prevention. Does that meet your requirement?
I see zero comparison to Tik-Tok, something that poses no threat and that we have no need of whatsoever.
Noted, you don't understand how user data could be stolen or popular media manipulated.
Why is it only things you know that could be hazards?
"Tell me how there could be a national crisis"
There isn't. This is about who has power in this "democracy".
Who is it defending/demanding TikTok? Well, what's the primary politics on TikTok?
And why then is TRUMP willing to keep it alive? That's the question I haven't fully figured out.
The obvious Jabberwocking answer is "the Chinese paid him/control him", an obvious attempt to rerun their greatest hit of Trump 1, namely "The Russians control Trump".
This feels dumb on so many dimensions. Can we give a better theory?
Perhaps it's really as simple as the Trump team have a huge amount on their plate on date 1, not just the obvious stuff like illegal immigrants, Israel and Ukraine, but also pressinging but less obvious stuff like the imminent collapse of Intel. Maybe everyone on Trump's tech advisory side felt this can wait 90 days in the face of more urgent business?
One thing the 90 day "pause" can do is allow part of the country to disengage from TikTok [eg no more app store distribution] and we can see the effects.
Another thing it does is allow more careful thought about the long term consequences. If much of TikTok moves to Red Note, is that a plus for the US [Woke now infects China] or a minus [Woke now infects China]?
And since Red Note is out there, and can be followed by something else, perhaps some sort of more structural solution is required, not just a sequence of app names, each banned after a year?
Should that structural form be "Chinese Apps in US only if US Apps in China"?
Should it be a list of rules about what apps can and cannot record about users?
"They want everyone to know that it was Biden who shut them down and Donald Trump "
I'm sorry Kevin, but why exactly are you ignoring the Biden admin's very clear statement that they won't enforce this decision (very Andrew Jackson Trail of Tear...)
https://apnews.com/article/tiktok-ban-trump-executive-order-1e95d9836bf6f8c0c245ed1c3234d968
It's very clear that the Biden administration called for the ban -- and then immediately changed face as soon as they got what they wanted...
Not defending Trump here, his team have done exactly the same thing.
At the end of the day, this appears to be 100% about "democracy". What "the people" (or at least the very loud people) want is TikTok and a steady diet of fauxtrage. If you have any intellectual honesty, you need to accept that and reconsider your priors regarding democracy and whose voices get listened to.
A Republic If You Can Keep It.
But of course intellectual honesty would require commenting on yesterday's rather strange "I Declare A Change to the US Constitution" business, and we can't have that, can we, because that would spoilt the nice story of one party that's always playing by the rules and one party that wants to upend the rules...
Weirdly you're forgetting all the Republicans who voted for it and publicly supported this ban, too.
I wonder why.
Well he also is pretending Biden pulled the ERA out of thin air and that there isn't disagreement amongst legal scholars over its validity.
How exactly do you think the current administration could have "enforced the ban" in 36 hours?
Wouldn't that depend on how much actual prep work was done in the weeks leading up to the deadline?
https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/18/business/trump-tiktok-ban/index.html