The judge in Donald Trump's business fraud trial called Trump to the witness stand today to ask about something he'd said during a recess:
The dispute began during a break in the testimony Wednesday morning. Speaking to reporters in a hallway, Trump complained that Engoron, a Democrat, is “a very partisan judge, with a person who’s very partisan sitting alongside of him, perhaps even much more partisan than he is.”
....On the witness stand, Trump said his remark outside court was a reference not to the judge’s law clerk, who sits next to Engoron in the courtroom on the bench, but to former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen, who had been on the witness stand earlier in the day testifying against his former boss.
The judge, for obvious reasons, didn't believe Trump and fined him $10,000, the second time he's fined Trump for disparaging members of the court.
It's probably pointless to ask, but I wonder what goes on in Trump's mind when he does this stuff. Does he:
- Not care about the gag order?
- Forget about it in the heat of the moment?
- Not believe the judge will enforce it?
- Figure the money is peanuts and he can afford it?
Beats me.
He figures that much like his legal bills, he's not going to pay it anyway, so who cares?
1 and 4. And, Trump simply can't process information in a rational manner. Every single event is seen through his "all things happening on the planet are related to me".
No, this is classic boundary violation.
Dude cannot abide another person enforcing rules on him, so he pushes up against restrictions until he gets smacked down again, which makes him feel resentful and weak, and in need of ego-reinforcement.
Repeat.
Thanks. I like this answer the best.
It frames what he's doing as a thing of habit and "strategy", but not electoral or business strategy, but personal psychological strategy.
The whole thrust of his remarks was to portray Engoron as having no legitimate authority over Trump.
I also like this answer. It also is the reason he is such a gigantic a**hole because he has really never been smacked down sufficiently that would ever give him any pause to to not keep pushing up ever further.
Doesn’t care about the $10k
Maybe a night in the slammer with secret service sitting outside the door?
I'd pay to see that.
5. It's catnip to his base.
He's pretty much fully committed to the legal strategy of "Win the election, make as many of his legal troubles go away as possible".
Yeah, this is one of his civil cases, but it's all part and parcel of the same strategy. Funnel as much campaign money as he can to his legal fees, win the election, have the Justice Department stand down, pressure the states to stand down via whatever federal levers he can manage, pardon key players.
$10,000 is cheap in the grand scheme of campaign expenses. Not even a Ron DeSantis plane flight.
And he kinda perjured himself with his apparent lie about who he meant while he was under oath. Which I suppose his supporters think makes him EVEN COOLER!
My thought leans toward simple verbal diarrhea. He is incapable of taking direction and incapable of preventing or stopping the flow.
+1
Simple question, simple answer.
He is a f^&king moron.
I recognise that phrase. Were you in the Trump cabinent?
>> I wonder what goes on in Trump's mind <<
I can’t even imagine what goes on in that dark place! Too frightening to contemplate!
Good luck collecting from Agent Orange.
He's campaigning. It isn't that he's using the trial to further his campaign; it's that the trial, the cases, *are* his campaign. At rallies and speeches he says "I am being persecuted, and it's all for you." Outside this courtroom, and in his lawyers' responses in other cases, he stages provocations that result in disciplinary statements and actions. These he trots out in his speeches and rallies as examples of persecution. It's a neat feedback loop.
He's perfectly capable of saying things for a sustained purpose. Note that he's pushing hard on a NY state judge in a civil case, who's unlikely to do more than fine him, but so far has given a wide berth to federal judge Chutkan who's made clear she won't stand for any crap and has threatened to move up the trial date if he tries any.
But it's important to keep top of mind that he lies-- or bullshits, in Harry Frankfurt's term-- about absolutely everything, ceaselessly, endlessly, shamelessly, and always with a central purpose of forcing you to side with him, because once you've sided with him on anything, no matter how trivial, he'll make it almost impossible for you to extricate yourself. He learned that from Norman Vincent Peale, I think, or maybe it was Dale Carnegie.
This is exactly right.
Not exactly replaying JC's performance in Pilate's courtroom. Not that any of the evangelicals would know or care.
+1
You're the one that argued he has dementia.
Without specific punishments identified, either Engoron or Chutkin could order him jailed, right?
He complied w/ Chutkin's order until she temporarily suspended it while Trump appealed it, and he immediately went back to attacking Smith. This suggests he understands the potential consequences of violating a gag order, including being jailed.
If he occasionally violates the gag order, either he has Dementia or he's careless. He needs a minder.
I think he violates the gag orders because he can do so with impunity. What Trump obviously deeply fears is being sent to prison as an ordinary prisoner (without being protected by the Secret Service and having special privileges for food and living accommodations). It’s apparently a deeply held fear but it’s also one which I think he knows is vanishing unlikely in much the same way as it is said that Charles I had great difficulty in believing that he would ever be executed.
Also, Trump has brought the concept of political violence to America. Any judge who sends Trump to jail is probably signing his own death warrant. Or that of his family members.
Essentially, an American president is an elected monarch and, in fact, he’s had his lawyers explicitly make this claim on several occasions. The state can’t prosecute him or punish him because he is the physical embodiment of the state. But, at the same time, it’s quite clear that if he isn’t faced with the credible threat of imprisonment, he not going to take gag orders or anything else seriously.
We're talking about a second violation of the gag order, not a disregard of the gag order. That alone shows that he has attempted to abide by the order.
The judge has already excluded himself from the gag order, which indicates that he's not concerned about personal safety (likely because he's already protected). Therefore, I can't imagine he would be afraid to send Trump to jail.
You’re probably right that Trump’s tried to tone down his violations of the gag order but I don’t think it’s a priority for him. He doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of the court and he also wants to test his impunity in ways that won’t end in his being jailed like an ordinary person.
Also, I wasn’t aware that the judge had excluded himself from the gag order but that seems like him bending over backwards to appear judicious rather than being unafraid. Speaking for myself, I would be a lot more worried about prosecuting Trump than I would be a member of La Cosa Nostra but less concerned than I would be prosecuting a cartel leader. Eventually the effects of the January 6th prosecutions will wear off and the far right will try flexing their muscles again and if (as was the case previously) they are greeted with deference and allowed to occupy places while armed, then the judge’s life won’t be worth tuppence ha’penny.
The safety of the judges is the relatively easy bit. The main problem is the jury. How do you find sane persons that are ready to convict Trump and suffer harassment and worse for the rest of their life?
That’s always been the difficulty with trials for mobsters and gang leaders. Nobody’s safe. And as Trump’s MAGA troops begin to regain their confidence and sense of impunity, they’re going to get a lot more dangerous than ordinary gangsters (who worry about consequences if they go too far)
Honestly? Sign me up, I'll take that risk.
As others have observed, it is a political strategy. He has already lost part of the the case, and his lawyers have told him that more losses are likely. If he can prompt the judge into jailing him for contempt, that will be just more evidence that the whole procedure was rigged against him. His supporters will buy it, even though Trump created the whole scenario.
Seems like he's doing that--whether intentionally or just following his gut...
I think it goes much deeper than "political strategy" I think it's a case of "you can't tell me what to do!" that is deeply etched in his psyche. Perhaps not the level of a compulsion, but perhaps close.
Trump: "a very partisan judge, with a person who’s very partisan sitting alongside of him"
That is the clerk. Look at the layout of a typical court. The clerk sits right next to the judge.
https://www.ncsc.org/courthouseplanning/space-planning-standards/court-clerks-station
What Trump claims "he meant" is irrelevant. The words themselves - without any that explicitly exclude the clerk - are enough to establish that Trump violated the gag order.
I'm disappointed with the judge. Trump should have been punished with 24 or 48 hours detention. The fine of $10K is a joke.
As long as I'm here, what the hell is wrong with the Atlanta Sheriff Department - taking glamor mug shots of everyone and not weighing Trump, accepting a self-reported 215 pounds.
Assumes facts not in evidence …
#4 and that the ACLU will step in to defend his free speech rights so he won't even have to pay a good lawyer for that. i served on a jury once and the judge informed me and my fellow jurors in no uncertain terms that we weren't supposed to tell anybody anything about the case as is the norm. I don't remember the ACLU jumping in to defend my free speech rights.
Next month the House will pass tax credits for these type of fines.
This is actually a really good question:
“I wonder what goes on in Trump's mind when he does this stuff.”
Trump is a tragically unwell individual. That might seem obvious, and terms like narcissistic are thrown around all the time, but it’s still hard for most of us to really wrap our heads around this phenomenon.
Most of us don’t have to regularly deal with deeply disturbed, or genuinely “toxic,”individuals in our personal or professional lives. But, thanks to Trump, we all know what it’s like to have such a person as president. And, as a result, we get to go through the same unpleasant questioning and acceptance process that others have sometimes had to face in their own families or at their own jobs. We can’t help but wonder, for example:
*Why is this person constantly telling lies, even obvious lies, the kind of lies that everyone (or most people) can easily identify as lies?
*Why do so many of this person’s lies center on boosting his own story and accomplishments?
*Why does this person apparently feel some kind of compulsive need to constantly tear down, belittle, or on some way mock others, displaying an almost comically obvious insecurity?
*Why is this person capable of being so charming on the one hand and yet so deeply unpleasant, in such an over the top manner, the rest of the time?
*Why is this person seemingly compelled to flaunt or ignore even basic rules or regulations that serve an obvious purpose in the smooth functioning of society?
And on like that it goes. But we can’t really “answer” these questions in a logical sense. There are no rational explanations. In a word, Trump is crazy. And, sure, we all know that, yet we still shake our heads in absolute wonder every time that craziness is so amply demonstrated.
The best diagnosis that I personally have read for Trump is that he has, among other things, a severe case of antisocial personality disorder, otherwise known as sociopathy. He’s a sociopath at best.
And, officially, these terms incorporate all the symptoms listed above. But, apparently, sociopathy does not typically occur as an isolated illness, and so in trump’s case, for example, there are also obvious signs of narcissism.
Again, though, it’s one thing to know all this but another thing to experience it. And Trump has blessed us all with the opportunity to witness genuine insanity in action.
+1