I'm not sure there's anything really new here, but today the New York Times reports on Donald Trump's view of abortion:
Former President Donald J. Trump has told advisers and allies that he likes the idea of a 16-week national abortion ban with three exceptions, in cases of rape or incest, or to save the life of the mother, according to two people with direct knowledge of Mr. Trump’s deliberations.
Mr. Trump has studiously avoided taking a clear position on restrictions to abortion since Roe v. Wade was overturned in the middle of 2022, galvanizing Democrats ahead of the midterm elections that year. He has said in private that he wants to wait until the Republican presidential primary contest is over to publicly discuss his views, because he doesn’t want to risk alienating social conservatives before he has secured the nomination, the two people said.
Donald Trump, the guy who speaks his mind and always lets you know where he stands, is suddenly shy when talk turns to abortion. How about that?
Trump could hardly be more clear that he couldn't care less about abortion. He's "very" pro-choice until he decides to become a Republican, then he switches. He says we should jail women who get abortions until, oops, he discovers that isn't the party line. He's in favor of strict abortion bans until the Supreme Court makes that possible, at which point he starts dithering about 16 weeks.
He's obviously in favor of whatever abortion policy will get him elected, full stop. There's nothing else there.
So, basically, he's like almost alllllll other politicians then?
Got it.
Wrong. What is Joe Biden's position on abortion? You already know, because he's been clear about it.
Maybe 'almost' is 'everyone not a Republican'?
But you gotta love how the New York Times just reports this as straight news without pointing any of this out.
Tabula rasa, those folks.
Yeah, this is a campaign trial balloon masquerading as news.
Drum won't be able to back up Trump saying "we should jail women who get abortions" because he never said that.
Trump actually said the “answer is that there has to be some form of punishment, yeah.”
Bullshit.
He said there should be jail time.
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/30/11333472/trump-abortions-punishment-women
There is no mention of Trump saying that in the Vox article. Perhaps you should read before you post.
Matthews was obviously referrring to incarceration; Trump didn’t contradict that. His last sentence clearly refers to Matthews question about a prison term.
He's got his talking points and won't let them go, even with the words right there in his face.
Listen to the full segment
Trump: Are you saying put them in jail?? (inaudible as Mathews talks over Trump.)
Mathews: Well, no. I'm asking you.
---------------------
Mathews: Do you believe in punishment for abortion as a principle, yes or no?
Trump: The answer is that (pause) there has to be some form of punishment.
Mathews: To the woman.
Trump: Yeah. There has to be some form of punishment.
When Trump says "I don't know" to Mathews pressing with 10 days? 10 years? Trump is clearly tired of this segment and never said women who have abortions should be in jail as Drum wrote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n-SgCndBWE&ab_channel=HindustanTimes
You have to be a fucking moron to not understand they are talking about jail and quibbling over how much, which Trump is trying to avoid being specific about.
Christ on a cracker, some folks just won't admit the truth about this creep.
So, you think he meant the death penalty instead?
Ever hear of punishments like "fines" or "community service"?
Yes. But that's not what Trump was saying.
Since he is a rapist, he certainly would want rape to be one of the exceptions.
Of course how sick does the mother have to be to earn one of the other exception? At deaths door like in Texas and many other places? Or just highly likely to be deathly ill if the pregnancy continues?
I'm sure he could get this passed in Congress, just like he got healthcare reform passed in his first term. MAGA Mike Johnson would certainly put a 16 week abortion window to a vote!
If a mother has a very serious health issue but one that is not necessarily fatal such as eclampsia and finds out only later in her pregnancy that the child has a condition that means it won’t live long (like anencephaly — lacking most of the brain) you can bet doctors will be afraid to perform an abortion.
Without bad faith…..
…republicans would have no arguments..
You are allowed to simply not have an opinion about something, even if everyone else is obsessed with it.
Honestly, I wish more, FAR FAR MORE, people behaved like this, just tell people around them "I don't give a fsck about this issue and please stop talking to me about it".
If he had no opinion about it, then why did he say women have to go to prison?
Also, fuck you for "everyone is obsessed with it"
This is about the bodily autonomy of women. I don't give two shits if you're so fucking checked out that you think it's okay to have no opinion about forcing raped children to birth the babies of their rapists.
He’s running for the highest office in government. He can avoid stating an opinion, but voters are free to assume that he’s ducking the issue; that they wouldn’t approve of his position; or whatever else they want.
I still want to know how many abortions Trump has paid for. Howard Stern asked him about that years ago and Trump just gave a smile.
Lots of men suddenly become pro-choice when it dawns on them that it'll get them out of 18 years of child support.
"The best thing about f*cking an antivaxxer is that you will only have to pay three or four years of child support."
That makes me kind of ashamed to be human.
This is hardly triangulating. A nationwide abortion ban after 4 months with no exception for the health of the woman, until she's at death's door, is a disaster. As we can see in Texas and other slave states, it makes women second class citizens who can't get necessary medical care if they're pregnant.
My current belief is that the rape exception is meaningless: Unless it's circumstantially indisputable, such as when the girl is 11 years old, proving rape requires a woman to have the presence of mind and fortitude to contact police within 48 hours to even have a chance of the cops concluding it was indeed non-consensual.
I don't see a practical means of determining rape for the purposes of abortion which does not place a ridiculous burden on the victim. An actual trial verdict always takes longer than 16 weeks.
How would a rape exception ever be enforced?
Exactly. You'll just see the same attacks as they use against asylum seekers. They'll claim that rape victims are lying and "gaming the system" in order to justify making it harder and harder to get any exceptions.
My personal take is that women are people, and as people, they control their own bodies. That makes it easier for me to keep my position straight.
I think his notion is not so much a federal standard of 16 weeks, but a ceiling that prevents any state from being more liberal, while allowing states to keep or pass laws with more conservative targets. So if you're Texas and have a near-absolute ban, you're kosher.
I urge journalists to be more thoughtful than to allow or express ambiguous language and phrases. Be clear and explicit, otherwise you are complicit to a white lie.
Whatever position Trump stakes out during the election, he will be forced to run on Dobbs. Guilt for woman who died because of Dobbs -- that's what is on Trump's doorstep in the general election. He appointed the judges who made Dobbs happen, and I'm sure the Democrats will hang that albatross around his neck on every possible occasion. Those stories will be told again and again.
Republicans are going to pitch a 16-week ban as a compromise. It isn't. Roe v Wade was the compromise.
It doesn't matter what Trump thinks/how much he cares about abortion. If the Republicans get control of Congress, and Trump is reelected, they will enact an absolute (or as good as) national ban, and Trump will dutifully sign it.
Give Trump his feral cunning due. This said-but-not-said is aimed at women who could or would support Trump except for Dobbs. It's not hard to imagine many instances where this is all it takes to swing a certain kind of female voter, certainly enough to tip close outcomes. I believe 16 weeks is actually pretty close to the law in France, so it's even good enough for those socialist Europeans. If Trump can peel enough of the women who would've voted red team if not for Dobbs and afterwards, he wins.