Israeli TV says that Benjamin Netanyahu was off the reservation when he publicly accused the US of withholding weapons:
Channels 13 and 12 said a clandestine meeting held before Netanyahu’s Tuesday video statement — which accused Washington of withholding arms shipments to Israel, calling it “inconceivable” — included National Security Adviser Tzachi Hanegbi and Strategic Affairs Minister Ron Dermer and other officials, all of whom unequivocally objected to Netanyahu’s intention.
Though Dermer was in favor of a public confrontation after previously discussing the idea with Netanyahu, he asked the premier to wait with the criticism until he and Hanegbi meet US officials at the White House on Thursday, the network said.
Both Defense Minister Yoav Gallant and IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi were reportedly opposed to airing the dispute publicly, instead preferring to handle matters behind closed doors over concerns a public rift with the US could benefit the Hamas and Hezbollah terror groups.
This is a very strange report. Dermer merely wanted to wait until after a meeting at the White House. Gallant and Halevi didn't want to provide aid and comfort to Hamas and Hezbollah.
But there's something obvious missing here. Did anyone object to Netanyahu's accusation on the grounds that it wasn't true? Everything I've read suggests Joe Biden was genuinely mystified by Netanyahu's outburst. Aside from a single shipment of heavy bombs withheld a month ago, it doesn't appear that the US has stopped or slow-walked any armaments at all.
So wtf is going on? Were a few shipments late for some reason, and Netanyahu believed the reasons were just excuses? Have there been threats of delays? Or what?
It continues to be remarkable the way Netanyahu treats Biden, an old friend and supporter who may occasionally counsel prudence but has also consistently made it clear that the US will provide Israel with anything it needs to prosecute the war. We've supplied billions of dollars in armaments. We helped shoot down Iran's drone/missile attack. We've provided massive amounts of intelligence assistance. We've taken the lead in protecting Red Sea shipping from Houthi attacks.
Needless to say, this compares to approximately zero military support from any other country besides Germany, and we're doing it at the same time that we're drawing down our own stockpiles of weaponry to supply Ukraine. I get that Netanyahu supports Trump, but this kind of behavior seems close to insane. What more could anyone in Israel want from us?
I don't have a solid answer about this, but do note that continuation of the war is likely the only thing keeping him out of the defendant's table.
It looks like his polling is slowly reverting to the mean. In general, he's playing for time.
He's also selectively pissed on domestic friends in the past when it was politically expedient. Not like he has any sense loyalty.
This has a whiff of domestic triangulation, especially coming right after Gantz bailed on Bibi's "unity" figleaf. I suspect Haaretz will have more tomorrow.
Yeah. Netanyahu has learned from Trump that truth is a coin of little value to the right-wing kooks who prop him up in power. Fact-free indignation, bluster, lies, fraud, abuse, violence, and the will to commit crime are the coin of their realm.
Complete, unquestioning fealty and a blank check seems to be the answer
Biden is a jackass. I’ll vote for him, but my god he’s a jackass when it comes to Israel. Don’t let that asshole visit.
(1) Wants Biden to lose
(2) Display of dominance which helps achieve point 1
US acceptance of Israel cleansing the Gaza Strip and West Bank as part of Israel’s program of lebensraum…
J D Vance is talking about deporting 20 million “illegal aliens” and this, he’s says, will lead to affordable housing. So if you want to talk about “lebensraum” you need look no further than our current Trumpian Party.
Again!!!
The Census Department projects US population for high, low and zero immigration. Zero says the US population will decline by 100 million by 2100.
> What more could anyone in Israel want from us?
That is an easy question.
Israel wants US to fight Hezbollah (and Iran) on Israel's behalf. Or at a minimum, join in on Israel's side when the war comes. Ideally, do all the dirty work for Israel.
War in Lebanon is coming. Israel has to attack Lebanon. No other choice. Israeli security has rested on deterrence. That is Arabs being afraid. Well, that deterrence is gone. Israel cannot constantly fight (most of) its neighbors all the time. It has to get the deterrence back to survive. Gaza war is not going well. In the past, when Israel fought wars, buffer zones were always inside other countries. Now Hezbollah has created a buffer zone in Northern Israel - residents have all fled and refuse to go back as long as Hezbollah is on the border.
War in Lebanon is coming, it is a question of when not if. Israelis know that alone it will be a very tough hard fight, with questionable chances of success. They want for the US to join in. I will bet you the generals at Pentagon are not very excited about that at all. Tough hard thankless fight with no glory. Plus Pentagons resources are stretched thin and they really want to focus on China.
They would like permission to do ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank, continue with the Apartide State or Genocide. I think they are using a hybrid form of ethnic cleansing boosted by near Genocide.
I disagree, it's simply war crimes not genocide. BTW, it is spelled apartheid.
The navy wants to focus on china but the army and Air Force want to focus on Eastern Europe.
Sad to say, most of the world wants the US to do their dirty work. Fight the Russians, while they gut their own defenses and gorge on cheap Russian natural gas. Fight the Chinese, while they deny us basing rights because we are imperialists. Fight the Iranians, the North Koreans, the Venezuelans, etc., etc. Most of the Washington establishment is totally on board with that program.
The delay of military aid to Ukraine opened the eyes of the Europeans to the fact that they can't depend on Murika covering their asses in the future and are upping defense budgets.
Okay, I'll accept that Israel wants the United States to not just bankroll its military and provide materiel; it also wants the US to step in and fight for Israel. Yeah, that's been pretty much a given for decades.
But how will humiliating and insulting its only benefactor accomplish this? For that matter, how has disgusting and enraging the rest of the world helped Israel to build allies?
The desire to shirk off its military adventurism onto other countries is no explanation for why Bee-Bee has acted like such a putz.
> But how will humiliating and insulting its only benefactor accomplish this?
I don't think Israeli leaders care what Americans really think. Various Israeli leaders (Netanyahu, Sharon, etc.) have made it very clear over the years what they think of Washington specifically and American generally. The words they would use to describe Americans would be like "naive, gullible, suckers, easily manipulated, ..."
Israel wants (and understands that this is the key) two things - 1) Washington in its pocket, 2) western MSM on its side. Nothing else matters. What is the rest of the world ("Global South") going to do? Will China invade Palestine over the injustices there? Don't think so. Will Russia, India, South Africa? Don't think so.
Netanyahu has gotten away with this before. Why won't it work this time? During the Obama presidency, when Obama was negotiating nuclear deal with Iran, Netanyahu self-inviting himself (with a little bit of help from Republicans) to a visit to Washington and joint-session speech where he basically denounced Obama. Massive violation of etiquette and diplomatic protocol. What did Obama do? Pretended like everything is cool and no big deal. Don't blame him. Nothing he could do. Best just to save face.
This is stupid as hell. The residents of northern Israel have not "all fled," what garbage. You're a warmongering freak.
What actually happened was that a handful of villages and small towns located 2 km or less from the Lebanese border were evacuated, about 60,000 people in total, when hostilities began flaring up on the border. Very few people left major cities like Nahariya (9 km from the border, population 58,000) to say nothing of Acre (51,000), Afula (61,000), Nazareth (78,000) or Haifa (290,000). There has also been substantial displacement of civilians on the Lebanese side of the border, so so much for your idiotic framing of Hezbollah turning the tables on Israel with a so-called "buffer zone."
The dropping of 2000lb aerial bombs on dense communities is not precision. It is a war crime.
Dropping 2000 lb aerial bombs on military targets is not a war crime.
Putting military targets under dense communities is a war crime.
The laws of war say that civilian casualties must be proportional to military objectives. In other words, don't bomb a school just to bomb a school. But if an enemy starts firing rockets from a school, it is absolutely fair game to fire at the school, as long as the focus is stopping the rockets.
Do you deny this principle?
Do you have any evidence that Israel is bombing a school just to bomb a school? Does that evidence cover more than a couple of percent of the bombs? If not, then it is human error. It happens in war.
Read this, and tell me why it is wrong, and what credentials or evidence you have to contradict it.
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286
+1
Don't feed the dimwitted nazi-sympathizing troll.
When you are reduced to name calling, without actually addressing facts, you have lost the argument.
This newsweek thing has been debunked
This is where someone arguing in good faith would post a link to the debunking.
Do you have a link? Or are we expected to take your word, over a world expert in urban and subterranean warfare at West Point?
The prime minister of Israel has made it abundantly clear since the Obama presidency that he wants Republicans running your government.
For years, Netanyahu has acted as if the US is a client state of Israel. On top of that, my guess is that this is a sop to Smotrich and ben Gvir. They all know it isn't true. They all know the weapons flow won't stop. But if you want to curry favor with settlers and the ultra orthodox, showing that Israel won't brook any criticism from the US is a good way to do it.
Good points. There's no harm in Bee-Bee acting like a d**k because "the weapons flow won't stop." Ever. The United States has, indeed, made itself a client state of Israel. The tail has wagged this dog, largely from Day 1, which occurred in 1948, not 10/6/2023.
However, perhaps Netanyahu hasn't noticed, but finally a fairly good number of Americans are waking up to the scam and the ethnic cleansing, and they rend to be the younger ones, the ones who will be around voting for a long time. Bee-Bee is burning Israel's bridges. Make that "bridge" -- there's only one remaining "client" to Israel, and that's US. (Also known as "the United States". Nobody ever noticed that "US" spells "us". You're welcome.)
Germany also backs anything Israel does, but at least they do so for obvious reasons of history.
Thanks! I should have remembered that.
I get that Netanyahu supports Trump
Right.
but this kind of behavior seems close to insane.
The first part of Kevin's sentence explains why it's not the least bit "insane." Netanyahu wants to inflict as much damage on Biden as possible because he knows Republicans fully support Israel's colonization policies. And Bibi believes—almost certainly with good reason—that there's not a damn thing Biden can do to counter him.
Might it be bad for Israel's long term interests to completely and permanently make enemies of one of America's two dominant political parties? Sure. But Bibi (like Trump) isn't concerned about the long term. He's concerned with staying out of prison in the here and now.
"...almost certainly with good reason—that there's not a damn thing Biden can do to counter him."
There is plenty Biden could do, actually withholding weapons for example.
That would last for about three days before Congress rushes to mandate that he send the weapons to Israel.
Netanyahu treats all gentiles like Palestinians.
As well as about half of all Jews.
I asked a Christian Palestinian co-worker, NASA, how Israel treated them. He gave me the "Are You A Fucking Idiot" look.
Seems to me this was mostly performance art for his home viewing audience, intended to distract them and divert pressure from himself. So now he can pose as the only politician tough enough to stand up even to the US-- even to the US of A, by God! Indispensable in defense of the homeland, blah blah blah.
Best evidence for that is Netanyahu's response to WTF reactions from here: that he's willing to endure personal attacks if that's what it takes to just get the damn weapons. Second best evidence is that even Dermer-- certified republican party operative-- didn't want him to do it (at least not yet).
So it's 90% about his situation at home, I think. Coalition cabinet broken up, open and serious disagreement between him and the IDF leadership, increasing public pressure to deal for the hostages and face up to responsibility for October 7 vulnerability. Plus worsening Hezbollah situation that could get really, really bad very fast.
His big protection at home is being the bulvon badass tough guy, forcing us to deliver the damn weapons. Saying "look how I've gotten us everything we need" isn't dramatic enough. He wants to look like he's bludgeoning the weapons from us, ripping them from our hands and warehouses by might and main.
And if he lasts long enough as PM to make the trip to DC, the other 10% of this show is that he expects Johnson and the House to advance a big supplemental aid package in order to spite Biden (it'll be after the conventions and a ploy to shore up the evangelical vote and also widen the split among the Democrats). How to set that up may be what he and Dermer disagreed about, if in fact they did; that story could be for show too.
When it's "mostly performance art for his home viewing audience" he speaks in Hebrew. This was in English for an American audience.
Bibi's interference in the domestic affairs of other countries, not secretive like Russia or for that matter the US but blatant and haughty, sickened me even before his disrespect to Obama, such as when he played up antisemitism in France to get French Jews to move to Israel. Now he's really off the charts. If he can't behave, he should be shunned. Wtf his invitation to speak to Congress.
I don't know what to make of this being said in English, then, except either instructions to his gop buddies here to kick Biden harder and lie more about what the administration is supposedly doing to Netanyahu, or setting up an "emergency" gop aid vote in July or August to screw with our elections. Dermer really *is* a certified gop operative who can handle almost anything by way of coordination through back channels, so even by previous standards this is really extreme. And you're right, it's blatant internal interference and always has been.
A third possible explanation-- stirring the pot here and attacking Biden from an unexpected angle in order to draw attention away from trump. There's some sign that the NY conviction might actually be changing the narrative on him and weakening his position, plus anyone who's seen him has to be thinking there's a better than 50-50 chance the debate won't be good for him. So this could be an intervention to take eyes off his good buddy trump for a while.
A fourth is a show of power: get out of line and I'll slam you before your own audience and there ain't nuttin you can do. It's not about one pitiful arms shipment, I think. Maybe it's part of his preparation for a wholly unnecessary war in Lebanon. He'll need US support then, of the unquestioning sort.
I can't tell you how badly I want that piece of shit Netanyahu to pay for his insults. The damn gall of that guy.
And I am part of the generation of American Jews that grew up on the heroic mythmaking about Israel, and knows in my guts that my family would have gone up the chimneys if we had not emigrated (and I'm certain there are branches of the family that did).
That cheap bag of garbage has been flushing Israel's good will down the toilet for decades. The generations following mine will have a whole lot less patience. And that will be a disaster for Israel.
Exactly. This is eventual national suicide for Israel. The money guys throughout the Middle East wanted to make nice with Israel because it had unimpeachable relations with the US. Had Israel reacted to Hamas' invasion more wisely, normalization could have proceded to everyone's benefit -- INCLUDING THE PALESTINIANS.
Now Israel faces a future nuclear attack from Iran that Saudi Arabia and Jordan won't try to prevent. It's colossally stupid and exactly what Hamas wanted.
I think the preference of Netanyahu for Dumpster over Biden is difficult to overstate.
The traditional alliance between Israel and America was between their nice (but racist) Labor Party and the Democratic Party. But the Labor Party in Israel barely exists any longer, and Israel's future -- fueled by high haredi birth rates and an influx of immigrants from the former Soviet Union, the latter of whom are generally strongly right wing -- looks mainly to be a contest between religious fascism and secular fascism. The Democratic Party's ties to Israel are now down to a few Jewish Zionists -- Jared Moskowitz and Debbie Wasserman Schultz prominent among them -- and politicians who think that pro-Israel support (or at least non-opposition) is essential to their careers. There is not a lot of an undelying sense of shared values between the Democratic Party and Israel any longer, and it is likely to get even thinner fairly quickly.
So Bibi -- correctly, in my opinion -- sees the future of Israel's support from America as being through the Trumpublican rather than the Democratic Party, and it's at a fairly critical inflection point right now. That Dumpster is more easily manipulated than any other American politician in decades, and that Bibi has domestic political concerns that direct him to continue belligerence are relatively minor factors, in my opinion.
It's probably a losing gambit for Israel. Really, its existential reliance on American support is probably a losing gambit for Israel: we don't have a functioning national government, and that's mainly because the Trumpublican Party is such a complete mess. China probably cannot believe its good fortune in stumbling into us supporting a minor state in violent opposition to hundreds of millions of Arabs and a couple billion Muslims, who incidentally control a lot of the world's most critical resource.
"The Democratic Party's ties to Israel are now down to a few Jewish Zionists -- Jared Moskowitz and Debbie Wasserman Schultz prominent among them "
You seem to have omitted the two most important people in the Democratic Party, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer.
And the Israel Allies Caucus
Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA) Co-Chair
Rep. Brad Schneider (D-IL) Co-Chair
Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-PA)
Rep. Lou Correa (D-CA)
Rep. Lois Frankel (D-FL)
Rep. Ted Lieu (D-CA)
Rep. Grace Meng (D-NY)
Rep. Juan Vargas (D-CA)
Rep. Frederica Wilson (D-FL)
Wasserman Shultz and Moskowitz are not even on this list, so there are clearly more.
And I assume you agree there are pro-Israel Senators, even though you neglect to mention them.
Yes but otherwise, he's right.
What is the otherwise in which he is right?
His premise is that there are very few Democrats who support Israel. From that premise, he assumes to explain/predict Netanyahu's behavior.
But as I showed, the premise is false.
And even if it were true, his argument assumes an either/or of support from Republicans or Democrats, when for the last many decades it has been explicit policy to court both sides.
The otherwise he's right about is "There is not a lot of an underlying sense of shared values between the Democratic Party and Israel any longer". What there is, is a powerful lobby. But fear does not shared values make.
lol
You seem to have a dog in this fight.
"... and politicians who think that pro-Israel support (or at least non-opposition) is essential to their careers."
I did neglect to mention Biden, but he's not exactly the future of the Democratic Party, is he?
It's probably a losing gambit for Israel. Really, its existential reliance on American support is probably a losing gambit for Israel
Israel's existence does not rely on US support. Israel runs a highly sophisticated economy with a per capita GDP about the same as France or Britain. And it operates a high tech military that possesses a deadly nuclear arsenal. Yes, withdrawal of US support would make things more awkward for Israel. But its actual existence certainly wouldn't be on the line. That's a myth—one we'd do well to dispose of so we can normalize our relationship with that country. We don't go into national freakout mode when Peru or Madagascar run into serious problems. We should act this way vis-a-vis Israel, too.
"We don't go into national freakout mode when Peru or Madagascar run into serious problems."
Peru and Madagascar are not the Holy Land. Are yo that much of an atheist that you don't realize there is a religious component to every aspect of our relations with Israel?
Peru and Madagascar are not the Holy Land
I'd have to research Madagascar, but Peru is indeed a holy land for members of indigenous Andean religions. Ever hear of Machu Picchu? Hell, thousands of Americans have traveled there for ayahuasca ceremonies run by local shamans. Of course, maybe it's not your religion, but that's not really relevant.
What is relevant is having something called the First Amendment. It's supposed to keep ignorant religious fanatics like you from making public policy based on what they think their God wants.
(Also, do you really think Jesus commands us to sell deadly weapons to a nuclear colonial power engaged in violent warfare—complete with war crimes—against a subjugated people?)
Israel needed billions of dollars of supplemental military aid because a lightly armed militia had taken them to the brink.
When you can explain that within your overview, let me know.
A lightly armed militia provoked Israel to accelerate their slow-motion national suicide in a paroxysm of mindless rage that is far from over 250 days after 10/7.
Witholding the supplemental aid would have been the act of a true friend, unfortunately neither Biden nor most Israelis understand that.
A case study in how successfully a weak marginal player can advance their strategic position through vicious terrorism.
I remember well a S. Korean friend telling me S. Korea had no choice but to support the US in Iraq, it is the duty of a friend. I countered a true friend does not humor you when you go mad. He wasn't convinced.
Israel needed billions of dollars of supplemental military aid because a lightly armed militia had taken them to the brink.
To the brink of what? Having to abandon their colonization of the Palestinian lands?
That would have been a good and just outcome flowing from a tragedy.
Genuine answer here?
Netanyahu would prefer that the Biden Administration go to war with its own party to sideline, silence, or remove those members of it who are hostile to his agenda. He would also prefer it if the US joined this war on Israel's behalf in a direct fashion, and marshalled all of our diplomatic power to cajole others to do so as well. He'd like to see F-35s cruising over Gaza and launching missiles into it.
He would also prefer Biden lose.
Really, Netanyahu kind of has Biden by the nuts here. Biden has a genuine moral and ideological commitment to the Israeli state, even the Israeli state under Netanyahu. Bibi is the sort of person who looks at that and goes "cool, I can use this; because Biden has genuine beliefs in this area I can abuse him a lot more than I otherwise might be able to do so with someone who did not. So I can try my best to ensure he is driven from power and replaced with someone more congenial while at the same time relying on him to support me! That's a sweet, sweet deal."
Bibi is the sort of person who looks at that and goes "cool, I can use this; because Biden has genuine beliefs in this area I can abuse him a lot more than I otherwise might be able to do so with someone who did not.
You're right Biden has a genuine affection for Israel. But I don't think it makes much difference either way. No US president is going to jeopardize his reelection to do the right thing vis-a-vis the Palestinians. That's the bitter truth. Biden is no exception.
(Some might argue Biden has his political calculus wrong. But ardent support for Israel definitely is his political calculus.).
He's trying to help his buddy, Diaper Don, win so jared can finally turn Gaza into beachfront condos
They (the current far-right-wing Israeli government) are dishonest people who want everything they can possibly get by any means necessary.
He's lying to hurt Biden that's all. It fires up those who want Israel to glass Gaza and when Biden does next to nothing in response he looks weak to everyone else.
And no one objected to the lie because the entirety of the Israeli political establishment wishes they could push a button and kill every muslim in the west bank and gaza. Now different folks have that desire tempered by what is possible and what is in the best interests of the country. But my bet is they have all of them decided Trump is a better deal.
Netanyahu wants Trump to be President of the US,, and he's willing to offend anyone necessary to accomplish it. Joe Biden has the temerity to question the wisdom of Israel's war of obliteration. Not its morality or violation of international law, but it's strategic tone deafness. Netanyahu is enough of an egomaniac that he really believes he knows what's best for Israel, regardless of its plummeting international reputation.
Iran will get nuclear weapons soon enough, or Pakistan will sell them some. Does the Iron Dome matter if an Iranian missile with a nuclear warhead has a proximity detonator and goes off five miles from its "target"? Israel is a tightly packed country.
Netanyahu is clearly a madman bent on destroying his traditional "enemy". Such madmen almost always come to a gruesome end that also immolate their country.
this kind of behavior seems close to insane.
....and your point is?
Lex talonis, an eye for an eye, is pretty brutal, but Israel leaves that far behind. For the last 25 some year according to statistics from an Israeli source, Israel has killed 10 Palestinians for every Israeli death. This is 'normal', this is insane, this is how Israel works, this is how Israel 'makes peace' by scorched earth genocide.
https://www.btselem.org/statistics
https://statistics.btselem.org/en/all-fatalities/by-date-of-incident?section=overall&tab=overview