Tom Friedman says that Joe Biden can win a Nobel Prize if he just manages to broker permanent peace between Israel and the Palestinians. I don't doubt that for a second. Hell, you could rename it the Biden Peace Prize if he did that.
But as the Beatles said, we'd all love to see the plan. It's just a lot of hot air unless you can offer up a proposal that, even in theory, both sides are willing to accept. So go ahead. I promise not to laugh.
I'll say this - he's smart enough to realize the prospects for peace are pretty dubious, and says as much. I'm not sure what he thinks Biden can do about that, but at least he's somewhat realistic.
he's smart enough to realize the prospects for peace are pretty dubious, and says as much
... which allows him to appear sagacious and utter apparent profundities without actually being on the hook for anything.
If my nephew could invent a simple cure for even some forms of cancer, he surely would win a Nobel Prize in Medicine, but as cancer generally is actually a family of disease each involving a combination of pathological behaviors that are governed by many different influences and systems, it is unlikely there even can be a simple "cure" for multiple forms of cancer or even at all for some particular forms. However, [ strokes mustache sagaciously ] it would surely be a great thing.
I'm still at a loss to understand why anyone would pay Friedman to write or say anything.
Pretty much. The Mustache of Wisdom is looking pretty raddled these days. Not that he didn't before, mind ....
Friedman is looking for a catchy title for his new book in the style of "The World is Flat" or "The Lexus and the Olive Tree." Maybe "Flatten Gaza, Win a Prize."
The Tragedy of the Mire in Gaza.
(Stilted play on Male Gaze.)
Indeed.
It seems to me that the main thing is to simply let them, the Israelis and Palestinians, work out whatever they want and only offer them a place to have their discussions. Stepping in to do any mediating is a worthless exercise. We shouldn't devote any significant effort to this because, as Friedman says, we shouldn't buy that rug again.
Since you promised not to laugh: pressure Israel, hard, to liberate Marwan Barghouti and pressure Palestinians, less hard because that's easier, to hold free and fair elections. Then let Barghouti negotiate with Israel without putting a finger on the Israeli side of the scale.
That's not a miracle solution and it'll be a long slog, but there is no solution possible at all if Israel keeps jailing the natural leaders of Palestine and then complains it has nobody to talk to, or that Hamas took over in the vacuum it deliberately created, or whatever.
Good points! Everyone knows that the Palestinian Authority is corrupt and increasingly elderly, out of touch with its citizens, and helping Israel maintain "order" on the cheap. Time for new blood -- and not the blood of children dying in the streets under Israeli attacks.
But also -- Israel has no legitimate government, either. Election after election, none of them conclusive enough to actually "form a government" and move forward, but each permitting Bibi Netanyahoo to continue clinging to power a little longer. And what's this about starting a sweet little war prior to every election, to show how "tough" he is??
How long is his patron, the United States, going to play along? Israel is wholly a Republican Party project now, after all. Maybe it shouldn't be a Democratic priority.
At this point, Bibi so fat, without starting a war he'd never be able to find his penis.
Currently, we're harvesting the fruits of the Kushner Peace Plan. The only thing missing is the napalm.
Dude, Biden is 'president' now. His foreign policy team has been working for months. This is on him. Everything is on him now.
Who reads Tom Friedman?
The easy plan that Israel would agree to is : All non Jews out. They will not agree to a multiethnic state.
Don't have an idea what the Palestinians would agree to. Maybe all Jews out??
Two state solution: empty both of them?
Eh, what about the Christians?
At NASA I had Palestinian christian coworkers. Asked how they were treated by the Israelis. Hahahahaha. Their looks told all.
Palestinians can be Christians.
How many Friedman Units does Biden have to achieve peace???
LOL.
This weekend on NPR Mara Liasson opined that Middle East peace is not atop Biden’s foreign-policy agenda, competition with China is. Which makes sense, because the Israelis and Palestinians can go on killing each other for the next century or two without it affecting the US position in the world. And they will probably do so. Whereas failing to invest in technology, infrastructure, and diplomatic and development initiatives around the world, thus allowing China to extend its influence into our front and back yards, will change life here and in other democracies drastically.
LOL. Like Biden is going to do anything to build the US's position vis-a-vis China.
I think peace only comes if Bibi is gone and his party coalition falls apart, while the US somehow manages to nudge the Palestinians to support Abbas over Hamas.
Freeman's non-column mirrors one from last week by Fareed Zakaria in the Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/05/20/only-way-solve-israeli-palestinian-problem/
What was "the only way" he highlights? For Israelis to become nice. To practice the virtuous behaviors of Judaism. Yeah, and that'll happen when America's "Evangelicals" start practicing Christianity.
We secretly replaced Tom Friedman with Bedbug Stephens... I mean, Ross Douthat... no, David Brooks.... let's see if anyone notices.
Drum seems to have gone in for more of this kind of vacuous cynicism passing as commentary since going independent. I admit I read Friedman's column expecting that at least Drum was right that Friedman is unrealistically optimistic, but in fact Friedman is pessimistic. So even being cynical about Friedman's optimism suggests Drum didn't read the column he is mocking.
Drum's last comment more explicitly misses the point. The problem with reaching peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis is not primarily coming up with a plan, there have been plans all along. The problem is getting all of the major players convinced that reaching peace now is better than waiting for what they can get down the road. And that is Friedman's main point, which is right. It is also where he is overly optimistic in whether now is that time (but not by so much given that he is ultimately pessimistic).
In some sense the Palestinians and Israelis both want all of the territory. But Abbas, in his negotiations with Olmert, was willing to accept much less. He wanted contiguous territories in the West Bank (including Arab East Jerusalem) and Gaza, and was willing to strike a deal on the right of return and to accept limitation on the Palestinian state to satisfy Israeli worries. The reason that he would be open to such an offer when ideally he wants it all is that he knew he couldn't get it all. That deal failed because Olmert would not give up various settlements that interfered with the contiguous nature of the West Bank.
Of course Hamas was never on board because they saw such a deal as coming at their expense. And Israel has not felt the pressure to reach a deal because if one ignores the immorality of how they treat the Palestinians, a deal will leave them with less than they currently have.
I am doubtful that this flare up actually changed anything. I think Abbas would love to make the same deal again. (Friedman seems to deny that they have been ready to make the deal in the past). But does Israel now see its ability to maintain its perpetual occupation as in jeopardy? I doubt it. And does Hamas see itself as having lost this flare up because the average Palestinian is upset that they fired rockets? Maybe in Gaza. It seems everywhere else Hamas has gained among the Palestinians from being the only group willing to take a stand against Israel's actions in East Jerusalem.
So Friedman is pessimistic. I am even more pessimistic. But at least Friedman gets right what is needed for peace. Drum's post doesn't seem to add anything.
I'm no fan of vacuous cynicism but I think you are giving Tom Friedman way too much credit. The headline - perhaps not Friedman's fault - certainly suggests there's at least a possibility of moving forward, enough so for Biden to get a Nobel. (Sure there's always a possibility). Moreover, Friedman's penultimate comment/question suggests it's somehow a fresh one :
" Do you want to, do you dare to, dive into the middle of this new Kissingerian moment?"
But what is that but a vague sentiment that there might be an opening based on someone's conjecture, actually a "feeling " ? The rest of the piece is just the usual handwaving about how awful Hamas is ( I don't disagree), useless Abbas is and oh, yeah, Bibi's not willing to risk anything politically. Notably there's no mention of any of Netanyahu/Israel's provocations nor the huge disproportion of damage and casualties in this latest round of violence. So, yeah, this seemed like a pretty vacuous piece that did not advanced anyone's understanding one iota.
I believe the plan is to ask a CEO, obviously. If there's no CEO available, then ask a taxi driver.
What about my doordash delivery agent?
No deal. The Mustache of Understanding believes that (apart from himself), CEOs and taxi drivers are the ultimate sources of wisdom and there are none apart from them who possess wisdom.
I always thought the ultimat authority was the shoe shine guy:
https://youtu.be/AsjybfVJBCM
No, for el bigotudo CEOs are wise and benevolent Übermenschen but only taxi drivers have unique clear-sightedness and common sense.
I wonder if Peter "If these two teams met on a neutral field in Wichita" King ever met Thomas "Taxicab Confessions" Friedman in an airport Starbucks.
Lol!
Oh, I had a great conversation with a taxi driver today.
Apparently, what people don't really understand is, the coronavirus was created by the US government conspiring with Chinese scientists to invent it and release it worldwide because that's how much they hate Trump. And he'll never get vaccinated or wear a mask and every other taxi driver in town feels exactly the same way, and none of them are vaccinated, because the taxi driver community is all about freedom, and anyway he's had it three times now and he's just fine, so he 'identifies as vaccinated'.
This is in reply to Mitch, above.
Only in Trumptards fantasy. Covid fatigue and the black mans racial justice arm waving hurt Joe Biden badly.
That’s the 30% of the populace that runs the country. It’s baked into the structure (senate, electoral college, gerrymandering) and there’s nobody in the upper echelons of the Democratic Party that this all of this craziness is dangerous enough to divert them from business as usual. The Republicans are almost certain to take back both houses of Congress in 2022, which means that no matter how many votes he gets, his election isn’t going to be certified and the what?
Almost certain lolz!!!! Republicans have major issues with Senate races already. House wise, 2023-24 is not very important like the Senate.
I don’t know which senate races you think the Republicans are struggling with. As for the house, the margins are very thin and getting thinner.
Aside from the obvious point that the Democrats will need to decide what to do if Biden wins re-election and the Congress refuses to certify the election, Republican control of the house will feature continual challenges, aggressive hearings, and attacks on the administration which will decrease Biden’s re-election prospects.
Lol, they got 4-5 seats that are iffy with potential strong challengers with deep ties in the state. While Republicans deal with open seats and unpopular incumbents.
Your nothing more than a moron, mumbling crap. Much like jews of yesteryear, financing the slavetrade, intermarrying with planters down south. I always laugh at morons waving NM's "flag".......huck huck.
I plan on getting the Nobel prize for creating flying pigs. All I need to do is figure out how to get them to grow wings.
Baptism, then trebuchet.
Lol!
Perhaps Joe could start with something easier and work up to the Middle East. The Moro insurgency, perhaps?
As Bret Michaels says, "Talk Duterte to Me".
There are only two options- create a Palestinian state or have a one state solution where eventually Non-Jews become a majority. It is up for Israel to decide which they want. And if Israel doesn’t choose to create a Palestinian state, option #2 will become the de facto answer due to demographics. Current very rough estimates: 7.5 million Jews in Israel vs 3 million Palestinians (Muslim and Christians) in the West Bank; 1.2 million Palestinians (mostly Muslim) in Gaza; 2 million others in Israel. So the ratio is 7.5 million Jews vs 6.2 million non-Jews (Arabs, Palestinians, others), and we are not even counting those Palestinians with a the right to return claim.
Look at the map and tell me how to create a state. The map will show the Palestinian Bantustans. Lots of them. To travel from one to the other you have to pass thru Israel checkpoints.
Well the dream of a Greater Israel will need to be substantially modified, otherwise option #2 will become a reality. BTW from my Western mindset, if I lived in Palestine, I would rather live in a socio-democratic multi-ethnic pluralistic society as one state (and demanding equal rights) but that’s just me.
That was kind of the point of delaying all these years. Israel has been pushing settlers into the occupied territories for a long time and multiple prime ministers going back to the 1970's have described it as "creating facts on the ground."
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-israel-shows-how-facts-on-the-ground-are-forever-1.8476506
"Jew" can be either a matter of religion or a matter of ethnicity. If Jewishness is considered a matter of religion, then Israel will inevitably become majority non-Jewish. Atheism/agnosticism continues to flourish, especially in wealthy, technologically sophisticated societies. Israel is not exempt; the country will lose its Jewishness because the younger Israelis will be increasingly uninterested in religion.
I'm pretty sure there can be no plan as long as we continue to let Israel drive the bus.
Could OutKast negotiate Middle East peace?
Move all the Palestinians to Joisey
Le 'em practice their faith w/o restriction
Kushner Properties has plenty of open apartments available
Problem(s) solved
Alan: Hello.
Noel: Hello.
Alan: Well, last week we showed you how to become a gynaecologist. And this week on 'How to do it' we're going to show you how to play the flute, how to split an atom, how to construct a box girder bridge, how to irrigate the Sahara Desert and make vast new areas of land cultivatable, but first, here's Jackie to tell you all how to rid the world of all known diseases.
Jackie: Hello, Alan.
Alan: Hello, Jackie.
Jackie: Well, first of all become a doctor and discover a marvelous cure for something, and then, when the medical profession really starts to take notice of you, you can jolly well tell them what to do and make sure they get everything right so there'll never be any diseases ever again.
Alan: Thanks, Jackie. Great idea. How to play the flute. (picking up a flute) Well here we are. You blow there and you move your fingers up and down here.
Noel: Great, great, Alan. Well, next week we'll be showing you how black and white people can live together in peace and harmony, and Alan will be over in Moscow showing us how to reconcile the Russians and the Chinese. So, until next week, cheerio.
Alan: Bye.
Jackie: Bye.