What precisely is the national security concern with TikTok, which is owned by a Chinese company? There's this:
Both the FBI and officials at the Federal Communications Commission have warned that ByteDance could share TikTok user data — such as browsing history, location and biometric identifiers — with China’s authoritarian government.
We cannot allow the Chinese Communist Party, our chief adversary and an organization notoriously devoted to propaganda and censorship, to control the platform that America’s youth overwhelmingly relies on for news. To do so would be akin to allowing Soviet control of several major American newspapers and TV channels during the Cold War.
I won't pretend to have a settled opinion about this. Maybe I lack imagination. But on the surveillance concern, is even the worst case that big a deal? Suppose the CCP is harvesting every bit of user data from every teenager in America. What could they do with it that's a genuine national security threat?
And on the propaganda front, does it really matter if TikTok is Chinese? Countries like Russia have no problem producing tons of bot-driven propaganda on American-owned social media like Facebook and Twitter. China does the same.
Has some reasonable person set out the case against TikTok? Lots of countries have banned TikTok from government-owned phones, so it's not just the US that has concerns. But we seem to be alone in our broader fears. Why? I've read lots of panicked opinions based mostly on fuzzy speculation, but not a sober analysis. What am I missing?
It’s just a shiny object thrown out there to distract from the existing problem of Russians already manipulating our media and elections that we can’t do anything about because they’re manipulating them in favor of Republicans. The We Must Do Something crowd doing something unrelated, like searching everyone’s bags on the subway while you’re free to be armed to the teeth under your clothes (Second Amendment!).
If/when TikTok starts spewing nothing but GOP propaganda, the whole jihad against it will be filibustered* to death in the Senate.
*filibuster = that thing that Kevin says doesn’t exist, but magically rises up out of nowhere whenever something inconvenient or undesirable for conservatives or rich people needs to die in the Senate.
+1
tiktok is rounding error compared to murdoch and musk (m&m)
It should be amazing that a liberal is more worried about the influence of Americans with perfectly mainstream views that s/he disagrees with than the influence of a hostile totalitarian state that is or biggest rival.
Unfortunately, it is actually just to bee expected in this day and age.
+1
Exactement ! Besides the Youngs are now searching for something else, the Olds have come to ruin their fun.
Look up the Rutgers study on it. https://networkcontagion.us/reports/12-21-23-a-tik-tok-in-timebomb-how-tiktoks-global-platform-anomalies-align-with-the-chinese-communist-partys-geostrategic-objectives/
Basically, it suppresses China unfriendly news and lies about doing that.
If that's the goal it's doing a pretty shitty job. China's about as popular these days as a case of shingles.
Remember like a month and a half ago when all of these generation Z people reading Osama Bin Laden's letter went viral on Tiktok?
Like that may not have been "organic."
It is a stretch I suppose, but today’s youth are tomorrow’s leaders. Would the youthful indiscretions of today’s youth be useful to a foreign government tomorrow? Are they “really” deleted when the user deletes them?
And yes, they might also be useful to a US company. That’s one less layer removed though.
Not just indiscretions.
Detailed psychological profiles of almost every government official and business leader compiled by AI with suggestions on how to influence them, what arguments they will find convincing, and lists of their friends and relatives who could influence them and similar profiles for them.
You seriously do not see the danger in harvesting biometric data along with locations?
I mean today's youth are tomorrows leaders, and their biometric data didn't change, did it?
Also, what if someone is the child of Someone Important and location data might give clues about who is on vacation, or travelling somewhere?
And of course the people who know about this don't want to talk about it in specifics.
The thing is also tailor made for an influence/phishing campaign against someone who might be related to/have access to important national security figures.
This is true of all social media, but TikTok is owned and run by people who don't have a shred of accountability to us.
"but TikTok is owned and run by people who don't have a shred of accountability to us."
Isn't this true for everyone? When was the last time that FB, X (or Twitter formerly), YouTube, etc was held accountable in the US?
+1 The blindspots are immense.
I think you are referring to my "blindspots". I think you are being very binary, very all-or-nothing.
If that's not what you meant, never mind.
Possibly but we all have them, so there's that.
The prospect still exists for those to be held accountable in the US. Perhaps that is a slim difference to some, but I believe it to be real.
Those companies are subject to US Law and can be prosecuted in court. They can also be served with regular warrants and FISA warrants. They can be sent cease and desist letters if they are doing business with known spies or hostile actors.
Mark Zuckerberg still lives here in California, as does Elon Musk. Law enforcement, or better yet, counter-espionage agents, can come to their door.
Most of this stuff is done at least quietly if not secretly. Musk is getting off the rails, it would seem with regard to Russian use of Starlink. What he's doing isn't illegal, just disloyal as hell. I would expect there are quiet discussions about how to fence him in.
TikTok, for one, is subject to none of this.
Honestly, your response sounds like a catchphrase rather than an assessment of the facts.
And if you're worried about Republican support for Putin, me too. We haven't seen that kind of support for China, which is why this stuff is fronted with China.
I too have often wondered what Tik Tok has done to raise such ire other than being Chinese and subject to Chinese Government decisions. I am thinking that maybe there was some classified reason that governments can't get into detail about?
Or maybe Ke$ha has more enemies than we thought...
Well, they compete with Big American Tech for marketing dollars. So there's that.
My concerns have nothing to do with the app being used by the end user as intended. My concern is the downloaded software, with the ability to download other software, which can access files, add trackers and keyloggers or activate microphones, take a snapshot of everything on the device, track location, or even just force a device freeze. Imagine releasing a virus to all devices geofenced in Guam, Okinawa and Seoul on the day China invades Taiwan for instance.
Why would they bother to geofence it? Let the US be focused on the chaos of every phone and PC bricking at once while China attacks Taiwan.
Is it a coincidence that every single free ebook reader on Android that's any good at all is Russian?
Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing AI trade secrets while working with Chinese companies,
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/ex-google-engineer-charged-stealing-ai-trade-secrets-working-chinese-c-rcna142218
I missed this earlier, hence my later posting.
TikTok videos sap the strength and willpower of today's youth! It's like masturbation without the pleasure!
While this stuff does kind of sound like a conspiracy theory, it's worth remembering that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg really were Soviet spies.
Sometimes the facts sound like fiction.
Lots of countries have banned TikTok from government-owned phones, so it's not just the US that has concerns. But we seem to be alone in our broader fears. Why?
Why? Seriously? Out of the five non-Chinese competitors of TikTok listed on the graph, all five are US-owned platforms. Next question.
Also, everybody knows we can compete with Communist China only by becoming more like Communist China. Sheesh!
You're missing the fact that politics doesn't run on sober analyses. That's how you end up with legislation that (a) criminalizes the same thing the US does and (b) violates the first amendment in an obvious way.
For the children.
The problem with TikTok is it cannot confidently become an arm of the security state like domestic social networks and media. TikTok's domination of the medium becomes a 'national security' threat because the security state cannot use it to manipulate subjects.
+1
Pretending America's relations with China are the same as they were with the USSR in the Cold War is the kind of xenophobic fear-mongering Republicans specialise in, and I wish Democrats would do more to combat it instead of passively going along with the "Yeah China is our enemy now" crap that Trump invented.
There is no reason for China and the USA to be hostile to each other, and every reason for them to cooperate as much as possible.
BTW banning an app beloved by millions of American teenagers would be about as effective a way as could be imagined of making them hate Democrats.
The reason we need to ban Tiktok is that it will promote views like these.
In actual fact, China is propping up and supporting some
of the most evil regimes on this planet including North Korea, Putin, the generals in Myanmar, and the current Cambodian regime. It has snuffed out democracy and freedom in Hong Kong, pressures weaker neighbors like Kazakhstan and Mongolia to suppress views China dislikes, makes no secret of its plans to take over democratic and free Taiwan by force of necessary, is trying to seize more Philippines territory, and had made it clear it wants the US out of Asia and the Pacific.
The reason the security state needs to ban Tiktok is to ensure the domestic media framing of China as evil cannot be countered from any independent media not co-opted by nationalist institutions.
The Obama administration is the one which 'pivoted' the security state's full spectrum dominance policy towards China.
1. The CCP is evil. I note you made no attempt to refute my arguments on this.
2. TikTok is not independent media.
I wish Democrats would do more to combat it instead of passively going along with the "Yeah China is our enemy now" crap that Trump invented.
Crazily enough, Trump has now come out against a forced sale.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/08/trump-claims-tiktok-ban-would-only-help-enemy-facebook
For once I agree with him (or, at least I'm not sure I disagree).
Meanwhile, in other matters China: https://sfist.com/2024/03/07/bay-area-man-arrested-for-stealing-ai-trade-secrets-from-google-shipping-them-to-chinese-companies/
Do real people actually get their news from social media?
Pingback: What's the problem with TikTok? - Kevin Drum - TikTok News
OK, this is something that puzzles me. How can Congress write a bill that specifically targets a company or group by name? Isn't there a Constitutional prohibition against bills of attainder?
Besides, TikTok can easily avoid being a target by changing its name.
If not, then how do they tailor the bill to specify the intended target without naming the entity?
I would like to see the actual text of the bill.
(The same applies to bills targeting Planned Parenthood, of which there have been quite a few.)