Marjorie Taylor Greene says Joe Biden is obviously guilty of.......something, but that's small potatoes. We need to move slowly and deliberately on impeachment in order to unearth the real crimes:
It has become evident that there is a vast amount of people in previous administrations, this administration, and federal agencies that all worked diligently to cover up unbelievable corruption and crimes committed by the Biden’s and Joe himself.
We need a very tedious impeachment inquiry that allows us to take a deep dive to uncover the traitors within that conspired together, not only to keep a criminal VP in office, but then work to propel him to highest office in the land....
Patience will be the virtue that will lead us to the traitors within.
I know, I know: it's just MTG being her usual crackpot self. Why bother spotlighting it?
I don't know. I guess the whole Hunter Biden thing is nagging at me more than it should. It's this whole Republican playbook of releasing an endless fog of "findings" that have nothing behind them but sound faintly suspicious. They did it with the IRS. They did it with Benghazi. They did it with Hillary's email. Now they're doing it with Hunter Biden.
And we keep falling for it. Even lots of liberals think there's something vaguely wrong with Joe Biden's conduct, even though various people have been investigating this for years and they've come up with virtually nothing about Hunter, let alone Joe. The reason is obvious: Hunter was kind of sleazy, but the sleaze was all out in the open. There's nothing much to dig up.
As for Joe, there's no evidence of anything. Evidence. That is: bank accounts, recordings of conversations, messages (to or from Joe himself), living beyond his means, eyewitness testimony, documents, and so forth. All these years of investigation and there's not a scrap of any concrete evidence that he did anything wrong. The obvious conclusion is that he did nothing wrong.
And this is consistent with everything we know about Joe Biden. He's been in national politics for 50 years, and in all that time there's never been even a hint that Biden is money hungry.
But no matter. The Republican playbook works. Even after all these years of doing the exact same thing and never having their investigations pan out beyond uncovering minor embarrassments, we still pay attention to them. Apparently there's nothing to be done about this.
I certainly find all these Hunter Biden obsessions pretty tedious.
This word--tedious--I do not think it means what she thinks it means.
KD mis-represent MTG here. She is actually arguing against immediate impeachment, and instead of inevstigation, which is tediuous compared to immediate investigation.
Apart from the many false premises and inflammatory language, it is a surprisingly sensible argument from MTG.
It's not a sensible argument; it's a political one.
A drawn-out inquiry allows for an extended period of innuendo, the slow drip, drip, drip of news stories about the existence of the inquiry. There are no facts to impeach with, so they need to create the impression of wrongdoing.
False contrast.
Sensible argument from a political goals PoV, and as the ultimate demarche here is purely political, it is from such goals, sensible.
A very tedious investigation of the gazpacho police, I can hardly wait!
I'll take my opportunities to refight the 2020 primaries where I can get them.
"Even lots of liberals think there's something vaguely wrong with Joe Biden's conduct..."
I find his failure to be from Vermont very suspicious.
If he really cared about hard-working American families, he'd be at least 20 years younger.
Kevin is pointing out something that gets too little recognition in discussions of American politics: one side has adopted deliberate lying as its core strategy. Once upon a time, the lies were restricted to the wilds of the internet and talkback radio, but they became more and more mainstream until they were blatantly peddled by a Republican president and the massive Murdoch media empire. The "Biden Crime Family" is simply the latest piece of creative fiction in a long series that can be traced back through Uranium One and Obama's birthplace to Whitewater and Vince Foster in the Clinton presidency. An entire industry now exists whose sole purpose is to invent "scandals" in the Democratic Party - witness the speed with which the right crafted and spread the fairytale that Paul Pelosi had not been attacked by a random stranger, but got into a fight with a gay lover/prostitute. No matter that these fantastic fabrications subsequently get discredited; many Americans will continue to believe they were true, or at least wonder if there was more to a story than they were told.
Once one side of politics rejects a core norm underpinning democratic governance - in this case, a commitment to basic honesty in public debate - the whole democratic project begins to unravel. There is nothing the other side can do to keep it together. It's constantly playing defence. If it resorts to the same strategy, democracy collapses even more quickly. And with Republicans becoming more and more open in their demands to control the courts and prevent Democrats holding public office, the unravelling is well under way in America.
Democracy isn't attractive to the party whose top priority is to cut taxes on the top 1%. By definition, 99% of the population isn't in the top 1%, and those who are are wealthy enough that they can vote against their financial interests without worrying about not having enough to live comfortably.
Unfortunately, the entire Republican infrastructure is built to enact policies that can't be sold through honest public debate. If the Republican party abandoned its commitment to tax cuts for the rich tomorrow, it would still be stuck with the infrastructure used to sell those tax cuts.
+1
Well said. Thank you.
Exactly; very well said. The only possible way that this can end is in a war of all-against-all, so, and I say this VERY sadly, every one of us who understands the Republicans needs to make the gun lobby even wealthier, and learn how to use their products. Because the nutcases have suitcases full of them. Most cops will go AWOL or even join up with them if a real conflagration breaks out,
My wife and I were up on a nearby mountain this past spring looking for the notoriously secretive and well-named "Hermit Warbler". The entire four hours we were there rapid semi-automatic fire coming from an old quarry down the mountain from us rattled on and on. When we drove home the freak was still there, blasting away with an AR at a stuffed target that was an image of Joe Biden. It was of course torn to shreds, but you could still see who it was.
These people are insane and the only way to get rid of the rot is to cut it out. We simply have to outgun them when the showdown comes, and it will if and when Trump loses next time. MOST older extreme Republicans will be rooting for them, of course, but the vast majority are bilious piles of flab from watching Faux News for twenty years. They can't even hold a weapon any longer.
"... when the showdown comes, and it will if and when Trump loses next time. "
You sure it will not come if he wins?
He will try to impose a martial law on some Democratic dominated city, and if this works go on to whole states. What is going to stop him except a "showdown"?
"What is going to stop him except a "showdown"?"
Worked for his buddy, Putin.
... and inspiration. But he will have to move faster than Putin does, against a much longer established democracy, so it will be much more "interesting times" (in the "Chinese curse" sense).
That may also be true, and then he'd control the military, at least to the degree that the officers could not arrest nutters in the enlisted ranks.
+1
"Once upon a time, the lies were restricted to the wilds of the internet and talkback radio"
Not really. Willie Horton and Whitewater predated right wing talk radio and wide-spread Internet use. Both were spread through mainstream media.
Whitewater coincided almost exactly with the rise of Rush Limbaugh to national prominence.
https://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19950123,00.html
Whitewater was the project of the NYT to harm & harass the Clinton administration. It was all bullshit from the beginning to the very end, but the NYT wanted to bring him down.
The reasons for the NYT's anti-Clinton - Bill & Hillary - have never been revealed to the public.
Whitewater was the successful trial run where the right figured out how to channel their lies into the mainstream.
Drama Llama academic egg-head language "democracy project" language is both overdone and rather myopically American self-regarding.
Democracy lives on with yellow journalism in many places of the world (see the whole of Developing Countries and democracies) and lived through 19th century yellow journalism in your own country.
Democracy (or the egg-head intello "democracy project" - language you lot need to learn to drop, instead of sounding like Uni campus activists ) can live through such poor conditions, and whinging on "nothing the other side can do" is typical Left Democrat "woe is us" pre-defeatism.
Evidently it would be better to have a healthier current climate for Democracy however throwing up your hands and whinging on about the other side achieves nothing practical.
Rather more useful is to recognise a change of game and stop whinging on, stop egg-head intellectual language and play the new game style. The problem with intellos, self-paralysis where idealised abstractions collapse in the face of reality never being as neat and nice as abstractions.
Haven't heard such "whinging"about eggheads since Adlai Stevenson ran against Eisenhower.
witness the speed with which the right crafted and spread the fairytale that Paul Pelosi had not been attacked by a random stranger, but got into a fight with a gay lover/prostitute.
The latest bee in their bonnet is this guy who's been running around giving interviews claiming he once smoked crack and had sex with Obama or something back in the day. They're really into this "all prominent Democrats are closeted gays" thing.
Every accusation a confession, I suppose...
"They're really into this "all prominent Democrats are closeted gays" thing. "
That is a retreat from "All democrats are pedophiles."
Kevin, clearly what you don’t understand is it take incredible patience to penetrate the cloak spun by an 11-dimensional corruption master…
I gotta hand it Joe Biden. All those years of corruption and back-room deals, and no one has ever laid a glove on him -- not even one indictment! In a just world, a world where the GOP controlled the SCOTUS and the Senate had confirmed dozens of REAL conservatives to the federal judiciary.. OH WAIT!
"All those years of corruption and back-room deals, and no one has ever laid a glove on him " Hmm. Not so unbelievable, since it has happened ... with another guy.
It's kind of a wash, after all, isn't it? The sloshing back and forth since Reagan between the rocks and the hard places? Between Clinton's impeachment and Trump's two. The propaganda on both sides is pretty good.
Name the false accusations from the Democrats that were repeated over, and over, and over again despite there being no evidence to support them.
Whitewater was not only bullshit, but THREE Republican special prosecutors said there was no wrongdoing by the Clintons. Yet each time one came to that conclusion, they were replaced.
Swiftboating was a complete lie about Kerry, and everyone but a couple fellow sailors who had previously said Kerry was a great leader before they were radicalized said Kerry was a great leader and deserved his medals.
Obama's birthplace? Enough said. Benghazi? Constantly proven to be outside State's fault.
But Trump DID ask a foreign head of state to find dirt on a political opponent, and he DID try to overturn the 2020 election and incite a riot at the Capitol building. 57 Senators voted to convict for the insurrection, including seven Republicans.
There's no equivalence here.
Exactly!
Thank you. Like +20
It's a false flag for the Weekly Word News personality, the social conservatives' singular idea of cleverness, a cognitive dissonance projected into the media and the national conversation to create the inherent reaction that of course something like that isn't real --which only actualizes when the low-information personality hears a new version of it, e.g. when it comes out that a Republican is actually guilty of just that.
It's like squid ink.
A huge swath of liberals are just pathetic. Easily swayed, easily cowed, always wanting more but afraid of being attacked. I'm honestly jealous of the other side - they only want to win. Full stop.
They have good reason to fear attacks - possibly lethal ones.
And those who want to win want more - to cause suffering in others.
Speaking truth is not rewarded. Saying things your peer group likes is.
For some people, knowing this is as natural as breathing. For others, not so much.
But no matter. The Republican playbook works. Even after all these years of doing the exact same thing and never having their investigations pan out beyond uncovering minor embarrassments, we still pay attention to them. Apparently there's nothing to be done about this.
Here's a thought: Quit blogging about it!
The lack of evidence is all the proof they need.
👍👍👍👍👍
This is what happens when you reduce a part of the population's daily dose of soap operas on TV.
I’m about as liberal as they come, but I think there are much better causes than Hunter Biden. What exactly made him qualified to sit on the board of a Ukrainian energy company? While his father was vice president? As far as I know, he never visited the country during his stint on the board and doesn’t even speak the language. The appointment alone just stinks.
All of that is probably true. It still has nothing to do with Joe Biden. And the only apparent victims are the folks at Burisma who hired Hunter Biden thnking he could provide them something valuable, only to learn that he could not.
Devon Archer's testimony to the House committee went into considerable detail about the value he and Hunter Biden brought to the Burisma board. You might just as well ask why a former President of Poland was on the board (he recruited Archer), or why Cofer Black, W's Ambassador-at-Large and Coordinator for Counterterrorism was on the board, or why the chair of the board was American Alan Apter, appointed "after a 27-year career in investment banking". I doubt any of them spoke the language, either.
Yes, it stinks that the children of highly influential people get handed things they don't really deserve. Welcome to planet Earth.
Yes, the appointment stinks and it proves that BURSIMA WAS CORRUPT, and maybe that Hunter Biden was taking advantage of it.
But it says nothing about Joe Biden, who had nothing to do with it.
Hunter is not President. He's never been elected to anything, not even dog catcher. And there's no evidence that Joe Biden had anything to do with it other than fathering Hunter Biden.
Yet so many who are "as liberal as they come" decide that a problematic son is somehow something that disqualifies a father for office.
IDK, I think it be helpful if some Dems played offense for a change (looking at you Madam VP).
An excellent idea! In fact, I'd like to see most Democratic candidates, at all levels, declare total war on the GQP. Telling and re-telling the truth about the actions of their opponents, the positions they've supported, the much-indicted grifter and coup-plotter they unflinchingly support.
It even has the advantage of being true.
We have to pay attention to what the other side of politics believes. And a good chunk of it believes the following:
- Joe Biden has been a crook all his life.
- He has taken hundreds of millions of dollars in Chinese bribes over the years.
- He is immensely rich.
- He owns several mansions.
- He lost the last election by millions of votes.
They also believe one or more of these:
- Biden is a broken senile old man who doesn't know what day it is. The Obamas are running the White House.
- Biden will drop out of the running soon to make way for Michelle Obama.
- Biden is funnelling billions to Ukraine in return for a percentage paid back to him by Zelenskyy.
- Democrats are signing up illegal immigrants as soon as they cross Biden's open border.
- The FBI and DoJ are hopelessly corrupt servants of the left.
Above all this, they believe "the left" has successfully taken over all the important institutions in America and is deliberately moving to destroy "their country". For a summary of this extraordinary narrative, I commend this stunning torrent of gibberish from someone who was once a respected professor of ancient history: https://amgreatness.com/2023/09/04/what-the-left-did-to-our-country/
Knowing that they believe all this is essential to understanding why they behave and vote the way they do. It's a basic step in discrediting the James Carvilles and Ruy Teixeiras of this world who keep babbling that focusing on kitchen table issues is the way to win elections. It's exhibit #1 in confronting halfwitted "centrists" like Manchin and Lieberman, who claim to believe the American people are yearning for a "moderate" party which can unite the nation. Because unless people do understand how the reactionary right thinks, they'll continue to fall for the siren song that the collapse of democracy in America is unthinkable.
I tried to read the gibberish to which you linked, I really tried.
Try the Claremont Institute's version for intellectuals:
https://americanmind.org/salvo/refusing-the-great-refusal/
"Knowing that they believe all this is essential to understanding why they behave and vote the way they do. " I'm not sure of the importance of this, at least, not in delving into it too deep. What can I do about what they believe or how they think, anyway?
What I think it is for, is churning the water & making sure some of it gets on that celebrated low-information, low-attention, and in some cases low-brainpower voter, the one who is going to decide the whole shebang in a handful of states.
Figuring out how to reach that person with emotional points that resonate - I bet that will pay off.
The question is what will happen to Biden and the “traitors within” if Trump returns to power and Empty G and her ilk have something to say about it. I believe Soviet style show trials and purges could easily be a part of our future.
"I believe Soviet style show trials..."
And Gulag camps, and sending troops to impose martial law, and shooting people in the streets Tiananmen Square style, and so on.
Trump already made it clear many times that this is what he wants to do and that he thinks that is what goverments should do, and he will certainly try to do all of these if he wins.
I think the right is really good at these narratives. But what is the left really good at? Answer: They are great at TV shows and Movies.
I still remember how effective 'The Day After' was at changing the conversation around Nuclear War back in the 80s.
I think a TV series or movie that shows what a fascist America looks like, with a Trump-like figure, might do wonders.
People don't care about facts. They care about STORIES.
They have less than 14 months to put it out for it to have a useful effect.
We already had "The Man in the High Castle" series and "It Can't Happen Here" series. They made no impression on the public, who seems to prefer "reality" shows. social medai, and sports.
I believe gregorystein and others need a refresher on the CV of Hunter Biden.
He is a graduate of Georgetown, you are not
He graduated from Yale Law School, much more prestigious than Harvard, more plugged-in and exclusive...you do not belong to this club and could never gain entry.
Hunter Biden spent 3 years at the US Dept of Commerce, you have not.
Hunter Biden sat on the board of AMTRAK, appointed for a 5 year term by President Bush, and at one point was Vice Chairman...you were not.
Hunter Biden was Of Counsel to Boies Schiller Flexner LLP, you were not.
Hunter Biden was on the board of directors of World Food Program USA, and successfully increased funding 60% to over 2 billion dollars. You have done nothing like this.
And of course Hunter Biden sat on the Board of Burisma, following Devon Archer onto the board who preceded him...where he made no more nor less in compensation than any other board member. Because Hunter Biden was Of Counsel to Boies Shiller, this brought a great deal of legitimacy to Burisma....you did not bring this and could not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hope this helps your thinking in this matter. (Of course you can say that Biden should not have had this golden path...but you cannot say that he has done nothing either.)
Best Wishes, Traveller
Good refresher, thank you. For what it’s worth, I was admitted to some of those universities (not law schools) but chose to go elsewhere.
The only thing that bothers me in our side is the total lack of understanding- at the time Biden and other Americans were put in the Board, Burisma and Ukraine were in the beginning of a fight for existence, and most Americans, surely. could not find Ukraine on a map and would have thought Burisma was a new dietary supplement.
If Burisma could have put 1,000 famous americans on its board they would have done so. Virtually all Dems don’t believe this Repub BS, but we do have a lot of naive anti capitalists, that’s for sure.
As you all know, I have no problem with some well done anti capitalism- but stupid; uninformed anti capitalism is frustrating.
On my list of anti capitalist policies we need whether or not Hunter biden is on the Board of Burisma doesn’t even make the top 1,000.
Sigh
I would like to add an afterthought to my post above:
Hunter Biden came out of his Cocaine/Drug addiction alive...this is some accomplishment. For various reasons John Belushi and Richard Pryor, etc, etc...Prince, Heath Ledger, etc, etc come immediately to mind. There are many more.
Best Wishes, Traveller
Richard Pryor did not die from an OD, he survived and died in his 60s of a heart attack after battling MS and years of being a smoker.
We live in an era where Hillary Clinton gave speeches for honoraria - like nearly all political figures - and it was treated as a flagitious act. Her crime was probably getting fees higher than Jeb Bush or Colin Powell - unforgivable, apparently.
Biden's sale of his old house to a vice chairman of MBNA for asking looks a little suspicious, but it appraised for that value.
Hunter Biden very, very probably did not get into Yale Law School on merit, but then neither did John F Kennedy or a lot of other people get into any Ivy through hard work and achievement.
Biden is more old-school insider back-scratcher than corrupt, the proof being that he simply isn't wealthy. I think he's worth under $2M.
If he's corrupt, he's not particularly motivated at it.
I again can't help but point to Marcy Wheeler's latest. It seems all of this is going to backfire spectacularly.
Here: https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/09/09/david-weiss-may-have-more-bluster-than-tactical-leverage/
Even if all of Marcy Wheeler's guesses are correct, and the investigation is exposed as a partisan conspiracy itself, it will not "backfire", because the Republicans already know that. They will just take this as a demonstation of the Democrats using their powers to defend their people.
With Republicans it's all about projection, projection, projection, THEY'RE obsessed with money. THEY'RE obsessed with power. THEY'RE moral hypicrites. So of course, everyone else is, too,
In what world do you live in that openly sleazy ISN'T wrong? It's also wrong that his father keeps on bringing him to official functions. None of that is illegal obviously.
The only thing Joe Biden is guilty of is putting his son ahead of his country.
It’s a good thing the other guy didn’t bring his children to any official functions or hire his children to do government jobs or engaged in anything sleazy ever in his life.
"The only thing Joe Biden is guilty of is putting his son ahead of his country."
Do you have examples? Perhaps you are talking about his other son who died from US burn pits and you should be prepared to give examples of that?
"And we keep falling for it."
'What "we" White Man?'
Enough of the Democratic Party falls for it, as far back as Whitewater and Willie Horton, that I think "we" can own it as a flaw amongst out ranks. It's not a majority, but at least 20% or more hear repeated bullshit allegations from the GOP and say, "Well, there's smoke coming from that dumpster so it must be a Democratic fire!"
It's sad, but true and repeated since the 80s.
Biden is guilty of being a Democrat. In today's GOP that is more than enough reason to impeach him.
What's most depressing is, as Kevin notes, that DEMOCRATS keep falling for this shit. Kevin only goes back to Benghazi as the earliest (or maybe the emails. They were concurrent) but it probably goes back as far as Dukakis with the Willie Horton bullshit.
Republicans have a whole bunch of allegations, write them down on paper, throw them in a garbage can, sprinkle a little lighter fluid in, toss a match, and scream to everyone, "THERE'S SMOKE COMING FROM THE ALLEGATION! YOU CAN'T DENY THAT THERE'S SMOKE, AND WHERE THERE'S SMOKE THERE'S FIRE!"
They've done this so many times -- Pelosi's husband's gay lover, Obama's birthplace, Kerry Swift Boating, Gore and the Internet -- and yet Democrats keep falling for this. I can't figure out how 20% or so of the party are so completely gullible that they just buy this crap every time.
It's not that they believe the most salacious of the allegations, but so many Democrats seem so say, "Well, there must be something there" and then just turn their backs. It's really depressing.
Meanwhile, there's a mountain of evidence and even adjudicated civil cases PROVING Trump is a crook and MAGA backs him 100% and Republicans go along because they don't outnumber MAGA.
It was the investigation into Benghazi that stumbled across the private email server. It was the investigation into Whitewater that stumbled across Monica Lewinsky. Every Republican investigation, given enough time, will stumble across some insignificant broach of norms that can be blown up into something scandalous.
(Meanwhile, there's a mountain of evidence and even adjudicated civil cases PROVING Trump is a crook )
Without bad faith…..
..republicans would have no arguments at all.
Genius!
Russian General Admits Ukraine Just a 'Stepping Stone' to Invade Europe,
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-general-admits-ukraine-just-a-stepping-stone-to-invade-europe/ar-AA1gtZQc
The problem is that the NYT and WaPo don't require evidence to publish GOP bleating about alleged crimes. If they said it, it is news worthy. As bad as the NYT and WaPo are, the cable news channels are even worse.You can't fill up air time with reports of "no evidence of anything".
Why should I, a True Progressive™, defend Joe Biden?
We're still writhing under the lash of capitalism, are we not?
The only way these headlines and blame games will stop is to rid ourselves of the instigators. That is pretty much the whole repulsive party who seem to think everyone is against them. We are!
The media is as much to blame for "carrying the water" of these mephitic fools. They repeat, and repeat, then do the same. Why aren't they responsible for accurate reporting, rather than regurgitating the minutia.