Politico reports that "Biden aides" in the White House are discussing the possibility of pardoning Democrats who might be in Donald Trump's crosshairs:
Those who could face exposure include such members of Congress’ Jan. 6 Committee as Sen.-elect Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and former GOP Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming. Trump has previously said Cheney “should go to Jail along with the rest of the Unselect Committee!” Also mentioned by Biden’s aides for a pardon is Anthony Fauci, the former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases who became a lightning rod for criticism from the right during the Covid-19 pandemic.
Under the circumstances, this strikes me as a good idea. Republicans have spent years baselessly investigating Democrats of all sorts and ceaselessly trying to get the Justice Department to indict them. Trump spent an entire campaign talking about all the people he wanted revenge on for slights both real and imagined. And Kash Patel has outright listed all the people he wants to send to prison. Maybe it's all hot air, but how can we know? At best it's tiresome to put up with constant stupid threats; at worst Trump is going to follow through and demand that Patel and Pam Bondi bring charges against people who are guilty of nothing more than opposing Trump politically. If he does, there's little doubt that Patel and Bondi will eagerly obey.
Even if the charges are fiction and no one ever gets convicted, it would still cost the victims immensely in time, stress, and money. That might be revenge enough. Why let the man child Trump act out these fantasies?
POSTSCRIPT: Not bold enough for you? How about this: A blanket pardon for every convicted criminal who's no longer under the supervision of either state or federal judicial systems. That is, anyone who's no longer on parole. Just wipe the slate clean.
Sounds good to me. Set some people to making a list of every single person The Creep or Kash Patel has named as a target for legal harassment, and pardon every last one of them, explicitly on that basis.
And then what happens when we find out that one of these people committed a serious crime in the past?
Just about any serious crime could be prosecuted at the state level.
"Set some people to making a list of every single person The Creep or Kash Patel has named as a target for legal harassment"
I dunno, some of those people are folks like Bill Barr, whom I'm content to let take their chances.
Yes. Not everyone on Patel’s list. Robert Hur is on the list and there’s no way in hell that Biden would pardon the guy whose hit job in February boosted the whole “Biden too old” narrative.
Bill Barr has his award from the very conservative American Catholic bishops extolling his many "Christlike" characteristics to keep him warm and safe from harm.
" his many "Christlike" characteristics "
Including the stigmata?
I am not content to let them take their chances. All political prosecutions should be prevented. Doing otherwise is exactly what Trump is doing.
Biden should just blanket pardon everyone that Trump or his lickspittles have named as an enemy or potential targets of investigation. And be very clear as to why the names are on the list.
The list needs to include people like Brian Kemp and several generals. He can always specify that the pardons are for supposed election-related crimes or specific military actions. They don't all have to be blanket pardons.
Well, that would not be customary or traditional. It would violate norms. It would break with precedent. The Justice Department probably has some internal rule against it. Maybe the Supreme Court would rule it unconstitutional!!
Do it. Do it, Joe! I'm tired of only Republicans having the absolute, gawd-given "right" to break things. Democrats, you're the "outlaws" now -- take advantage of it!
Pardoning a bunch of high-level Democrats just in case isn't going to necessarily benefit everyone else who might be put at risk from a weaponized DOJ.
Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney have a lot more pull than your run-of-the-mill bureaucrat who is going to be hung out to dry if Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney were ever in real jeopardy.
Unless we're committing to dropping "the buck stops here" and only the elite get pardons, I think it's just a bad idea. I also believe that pardoning Hunter Biden was a bad idea because I think the pardoning power should be abolished altogether, but that's just me, who gives a shit about what I think...it's the US, the rich and powerful aren't subject to the same punishment as the rabble.
IANAL Does pardoning Liz Cheney get her job back? Also, when you pardon someone, I believe it means they committed a violation and are therefore pronounced guilty. Does this mean donnie can accuse Liz of most anything and the pardon implies she did something wrong, as in supporting the Constitution of the US?
IMHO, we need to be very careful.
Don't you need a crime of some sort in order to pardon a person?
Don't you need a crime of some sort to arrest someone?
Yes, you do.
Ask the spirit of Dick Nixon.
There were crimes committed.
👍🏼 good idea
There are people in federal prison right now for drug crimes which the federal government would never prosecute today (they'd let the states handle them); some of these sentences were disproportionately long due to the decision to sentence crack and powder cocaine differently. Biden should pardon every single one.
Kevin's blanket pardon would cover Trump himself. At this stage, I'd be OK with that. Get really bold. Pardon Trump for any and all attempts to launch a coup against the government of the United States (in the past, as is necessary for a pardon), as well as for any bribes he accepted during his first term in office. Pardon Cheney for complicity in circumventing US laws and military codes prohibiting torture. Pick a bunch of crimes that we know the wealthy and powerful will never be prosecuted for, and pardon specific people for specific crimes.
Then let Trump whine and complain about being pardoned by Biden.
Pardoning the J6 offenders? Maybe not that. Make Trump do it. (Can they be prosecuted in DC under the district's auspices, or only federally? It'd be great to pardon them and announce criminal proceedings against them at the same time. It looks like DC has a mixed local/federalized system.)
I wouldn't pardon Trump, but I would pardon George W. Bush for having people tortured, since he's obviously never going to be prosecuted anyway.
"Then let Trump whine and complain about being pardoned by Biden."
Trump wouldn't have to accept the pardon.
Biden needs to pardon everyone who did anything in his or Obama’s administration, or for a blue state administration, all the way down to low level employees, because they won’t stop with just the “famous” people at the top… they’ll go after the low level people who produced the report or offered analysis or helped formulate the legal argument or researched the laws or whatever.
But don’t kid yourself. Pardons won’t stop Trump and his minions from ruining lives.
(1) They’ll simply go after family of the pardoned, like they did with Hunter. Very few people have no loved ones who are innocent of all crimes, especially any associated with taxes or filling out federal forms correctly.
(2) They’ll go after the pardoned for “other” crimes, even if they have to make them up out of whole cloth. Very few people themselves have done their own taxes perfectly or never fudged a line on a federal form when they didn’t know the answer.
(3) Even if the accused above win their court cases - a big if once the judiciary also becomes subject to federal persecution - Trump and his minions will make sure the appeals are financially and professionally ruinous for them. They’ll never work in their chosen career again as government agencies and even corporations seeking Trump’s favor will blacklist them.
Anybody with means who worked for Biden or Obama or a blue state government needs to make plans to GTFO of the country at the first sign of political persecutions happening. And anybody without means needs to find a new job immediately and pray that they’re just forgotten once they’re off federal or blue state payrolls.
Biden also needs to pardon the dreamers and TPS recipients and anybody else who depended on the decency of America continuing for their existence in this country. It’s not their fault they trusted Democrats when they asked them to give detailed information about their whereabouts in exchange for being allowed to stay here. But now that information will definitely put targets on their backs forever. A pardon likely just extends their stay in the US a little bit longer until some other crime they’ve committed can be found or conjured up.
Pardoning the dreamers doesn't help them. The would be deported because they lack the legal right to be in the country not because they have committed a crime that can be tried in court. In the same way Trump could probably change the status of the Haitians in Springfield and then deport them due to their new status even though they have never violated our immigration laws.
I agree. Pardons for all. It’s a Jubilee year!
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the jubilee was to be a time to free slaves, to return land to its rightful owners, and to forgive debts. The jubilee was to be both a time of repentance when injustices were put right and the symbolic beginning of a new era. Jubilee called for a fresh start for the poor, an opportunity to reestablish justice and equity.
As I mentioned in another comment a few days ago I think the person who needs to be pardoned (preemptively) is Michael Byrd, the officer who shot Ashli Babbitt.I have no doubt they will attempt to persecute him and elevate Babbitt to hero status. Mr. Byrd is not a political figure, he’s just a cop who did his job protected the very people who will attempt to paint him as a murderer.
Pardon everyone that Orange Chancellor has bitched about in the last 10 years and everyone remotely involved in his prosecutions (including the witnesses and jurors). Pardon everyone that the goose stepping shit stains, who are likely going to lead his 2nd Reich, has targeted for revenge.
Trump is going to pardon the J6 traitors who were convicted of violent attacks against the police, so I don't care if Biden's pardons looks bad right now because the electorate has the memory of fruit fly and will forget all about this by 2026.
So go full Oprah. You get a pardon! And you get a pardon! And YOU get a pardon!
I’m sure there would be no unintended consequences of that …
Would broad, blanket pardons from Truman and/or Eisenhower have truly impeded McCarthyism?
I completely agree. Pardon anyone who Trump and his minions have threatened to investigate or prosecute. They would do it in a heartbeat if positions were reversed. F**k 'em. People can refuse the pardon. Maybe offer to pardon Trump--but he would have to admit that he attempted a coup and kept papers illegally.
Do you think Biden has the power to pardon undocumented people who violated the immigration rules by either overstaying or by working w/o a visa?
Undocumented people don't need a pardon, they need documentation. A pardon wouldn't get them that.
Given the way SCOTUS twists and turns the law inside out, consider this: if POTUS has the power of the pardon, why doesn't he have the power of the anti-pardon? Then Biden could issue anti-pardons for Trump, his family and all their associates.
I have mixed feelings about the pardons. I don't doubt that Trump will abuse the Justice department by going after the people who investigated him. But at the same time there are probably no people less likely to risk punishment than prosecutors carrying out investigations. The Supreme Court just ruled the president can't be charged for crimes done in his actions as president. And while this is a partisan court that favors Republicans, there seems little doubt that they actually do put the importance of protecting the powerful. Do they really want lawyers to be vulnerable for doing their jobs? They are lawyers doing their job.
The point is that pardoning these people is bad for the Democratic party (and that means in the current context bad for the country) not because people will be outraged, but because I expect the Trump Justice department to face plant repeatedly trying to appease Trump's appetite for revenge in ways that are likely to get them rebuked over and over again. Trump won because of people who ignored his many flaws over economic issues. Many of them may have actually objected to the criminal cases against Trump because in their ignorance they thought they were political. Spending a lot of money to fail to get revenge on Trump's enemies will not go over well, both because it will actually be political and will make Trump look week.
On the other hand it is a shame that good people will have to go through this nonsense. Certainly Fauci should not have to spend his retirement defending himself in court against idiots who push conspiracy theories. Minimally the Democrats should set up funds to make sure that the people Trump targets do not have to pay a penny out of pocket. But ultimately pardons should go to people who have less power to defend themselves rather than people like Schiff who is more likely to benefit from being a target of Trump than to face any real legal peril.
I am with everyone who says "Do it!!" Trump and the Magats have already shredded norms and tradition. They have proudly declared what they intend to do, and Patel -- among others -- have even named who they plan to do it to. Going forward, it will be routine for the winners to use the power of their office to completely fuck the losers. American politics and governance will not be the same. It's still a little up in the air how bad it will get, but Biden -- the last institutionalist resident of the White House -- has a chance to save a hundred (or more?) people from personal and financial ruin, and poke Trump in the eye on the way out. Biden didn't create this situation, but he has a chance to use it to make a real difference, and he should.