Donald Trump has:
- Been convicted of covering up an affair with a porn star.
- Been caught on tape bragging about grabbing pussies.
- Lied about President Obama wiretapping him.
- Tried to extort the president of Ukraine into digging up dirt on a political opponent.
- Worked tirelessly to illegally overthrow an election he lost.
- Promised to pardon the violent protesters who attacked the Capitol on January 6.
- Been found liable for sexual assault.
- Lied relentlessly about matters big and small.
- Claimed many of the world's worst autocrats as friends.
- Cheated customers of "Trump University" out of millions of dollars.
- Been fined nearly $500 million for business fraud.
- Fired an FBI director for refusing to end an investigation into his campaign.
- Been ordered to shut his charitable foundation and pay restitution for repeated self-dealing and legal violations.
- Pocketed millions of dollars from foreign interests staying at his hotels.
- Promoted dangerous quack "cures" for COVID-19.
- Baselessly claimed that Ted Cruz's father was associated with the Kennedy assassination.
- Said that soldiers who are wounded or die in war are suckers and losers.
Conservatives might like Trump on policy grounds, but they could get exactly the same policy from nearly any Republican. What sets Trump apart is his character. This is why his fans like him. His character.
They are not merely fans, of course, they are his cult. They idolize him because he's an asshole who gets away with it (well, he did get away with it, for decades). They imagine themselves being able to get away with being assholes.
Precisely this. He is the Alpha Asshole, who ignores rules, flaunts it, and gets away with it.
Or at least he has until now. I think this is one reason the verdict is producing such rage. It means he can't get away with it, and that means they can't either.
How does he not only get away with it, but become even more of a star to his fans??
Two Comments (here) best explained it for me-
1- Fans know he will stick it to the liberals. Moral, immoral, legal, illegal- does not matter, so long as he sticks it to the liberals.
2- a quote from LBJ- " "If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket."
and some posts credit Johnson for also saying this-
"Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
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Think back to the 2015 primary debates.
They support him despite what would be fatal character flaws for a politician because he is a Confidence Man who exudes what many misinterpret to be masculinity and strength, believing that Trump pwns Democrats and institutionalists despite constantly losing in the courts, political races, and in campaign donations.
Yeah, they don't care about any of these flaws. All they care is that he pwns the libs and makes them mad. That's it. He is who they wish they could be.
Right on.
First time I hear him I thought- That's the guy in Jr/Sr high who always confidently knew everything about anything and would let you know. Except a few years after graduation he was flipping burgers. The only difference between him and T, was one daddy had a few hundred $Mil.
I remember when I was young and naive, a wise man asked me, "Do you think voters who voted for Nixon did so in spite of him being a son of a bitch, or because of it?" I clung to the "in spite of" line for a few more years, but I finally realized I was wrong.
Yeah, the hardest core of his enthusiast base really wants a SOB in the big chair. They think the US has grown too soft and squishy.
if a dem did 1% of this the magas would rend their clothing in outrage
and the press would pretend they were absolutely sincere
Not even that 1% is necessary.
Just look at the outrage about Obama's tan suit, getting himself have a picture taken with his feet on the desk, or his taste for Dijon mustard. Hillary's pantsuits and email food recipies. Or the current never ending Biden criticism for being a good father.
greg abbott pardoned a fascist who intentionally drove to a peaceful protest to shoot an innocent civilian
the press spent no time on that of course since they couldn't 'bothsides' it
A few more winning attributes for conservatives:
- Does not have an ounce of human decency, compassion, or empathy
- Lied about our national security, when he declared that: "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea" - 6/13/2018 (either a bold face lie or he is totally delusional, take your pick)
Don't forget the leader of the flag waving "USA" party disparaged our dead vets at Normandy. and this allegation no longer just from "unnamed sources" but named individuals who were with him. Bonus points for ignoring allegations of Putin's bounty on GIs in Afghanistan. Party of strong defense? yeah right
But in spite of all that T does or says
The saddest part into is 40+ spineless senators who won't speak up
He failed in the casino business, which is like falling into a gold mine then selling it for the view.
Not really. He collected a million or so a year in "management fees" while they were going down.
And he could still be doing that today if he weren't a flailing nincompoop whose business model is surfing the catastrophe.
Not really. He collected a million or so a year in "management fees" while they were going down
It was far more money than that. If memory serves the deal was set up so they was guaranteed in excess of $100 million. I still don't understand why what Trump did was legal.
When he goes to prison he's going to have to learn to operate his own toilet paper.
I'm betting he just refuses.
Wait until he realizes that if he flushes papers down the toilet and it clogs, it will be him who has to deal with it.
Damn water saving prison toilets. You have to flush ten or twenty times.
You're right, Citizen Donald is being judged by the content of his character, which is defined by the threshold of one's concern for others. What sets Trump apart is the threshold of his concern ends at the end of his nose.
His implied message to his supporters: Support me and you know I'll do whatever it takes to control your enemies.
Question: Why are they buying his message?
Answer: Because they, like me, are angry.
Question: Why are we so angry?
Answer: We when we tell people who are making decisions having a negative affect on our lives, their response is, "I'm right, you're wrong, and this conversation is over."
Citizen Donald responds that way. The truth is that everyone who responds that way is one of his supporter, except the people on the right are supporting him intentionally whereas the people on the left are supporting him unintentionally.
Question: How should one respond to a disagreement?
Answer: I'm listening. All I ask is that you tell it to me in language I can understand.
At the very least, vote. The way I see it, anyone who can vote and isn't voting Biden-Harris, whether they're willing to admit it or not, is effectively voting for Trump.
For both your basic point and the last ("anyone who can vote and isn't voting Biden-Harris, whether they're willing to admit it or not, is effectively voting for Trump"):
Many Americans see their vote (which of course since somewhere in the mid 1800s is secret) as not selecting the best person from among those with any chance of winning - always between two at least at the Presidential level - but an expression of their identity. True on the right and left. Also stupid.
I myself have never voted for an ideal Presidential candidate, because the process always ends up with someone to the right of my political positions. I am generally more on the progressive side than most Americans.
But I always vote for the best one among the potential winners. Which one is best has obviously not been difficult to figure out pretty much every time.
Someone cleverer than I am called MAGA a Pride movement for awful people. Checks out.
Not that I disagree with other takes, but Trump seems to me like a caricature of traditional masculinity, which sort of makes him a role model and avatar for people who don't like the way masculinity is changing.
On a completely unrelated note, I just saw a youtube ad which began with the pitch: "Estrogen is killing men". I skipped it as fast as possible. Eyeroll.
Loneliness is killing men. Stress is killing men. Isolation is killing men. Not estrogen.
The Convicted (ha!) seems more like a distillation of the worst aspects of 1950s movie "masculinity": prone to violence, demanding his own way, demeaning women, using women as accessories, a mansplaining know it alls.
Somehow leaving out the responsible provider, the role model, the caring dad, the upright hard worker, the modest, stoic guy you know you can count on.
Trump seems to be a fairly indulgent father; not necessarily a good father but generous and reasonably kind to his children. I note, for instance, that when the issue of Barron's graduation came up, a background investigation disclosed that Trump actually did attend all his kids' high school and college graduations.
I'm not saying this makes him a good person, but it shows that he's not quite ALL bad.
He only does that because there's an audience. If he didn't show up what would they say?
Certainly not "only". He also clearly believes that having his children on his side is very useful.
They aren’t my fellow citizens or neighbors. Republicans are the enemy.
Well, yah. America really needs a sane, responsible, conservative political party. Right now we don't have one. Given decent leadership I have no doubt that many MAGAts would return to sanity - but right now all they have is Trump.
We have that party and they call themselves democrats. Which is fine.
Seriously? I'd have thought they were your kind of people.
No sweetie. But then maybe you aren’t either! ????
I would say not! And thanks!
I'm only cranky online. I real life I'm a sweetheart!
These people you're talking about? They're _exactly_ the reason people like me get out of tinytown dumfukistan as quickly as we can. They know this and resent us all the more for leaving; don't we know it's the natural order of things for us to truckle to their kind? Instead of, you know, getting as far away from them as we could, as soon as we could?
There are 2 kinds of Republicans:
1) Racists and religious fanatics that want the law to punish non-whites and sinners
2) Malefactors of great wealth that don't care about anything other than government cutting their taxes while protecting their wealth and power.
Trump's "genius" was that you didn't have to tip toe around #1, you could and should flat out say that is what you would do if elected. Trump could shoot Judge Merchan on 5th avenue and not lose these voters. They would all claim Merchan had it coming.
That's well put.
In my more milquetoast way, I would say they don't like him for his character, they like him for his marketing ability, as he showed them how to let their id run free and not lose most of their support. Problem is, he does keep losing.
I respectfully disagree. They are a basket of deplorables, and the basket is quite diverse. The republicans I know, mostly, are working or middle class and afraid of taxes. Some are anti-wokesters who have a skewed view of culture, but aren't necessarily racist. (The types that probably believe in the kitty box at schools rumors for furries) I suspect many hold their noses and vote for Trump, in many cases voting against their own best interests, because they don't understand how economies work. These are not evil people but are rather ignorant of the realities of how the world works.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we need to understand the electorate in order to improve election outcomes.
There are quite a few ways to carve up Trump's support.
1. There are the Romney repubs who just vote for whoever R is. They may be so low information they don't even pay attention to this.
2. There are plenty of anti abortionist fundamentalists who for all we know pray for Trump to be absovled from sin every day, but he delivers for them.
3. The anti tax guys, I mean, he delivers for them big time.
4. The gun nuts, he delivers for them.
5. But as to his character, he has glommed on to the "don't tell me what to do crowd, bigly. Because, until yesterday, he was the ultimate nobody tells me what to do guy. He is exactly how they would be if they had money. Then, they would not be stuck being Leo who has no choice but to bitch on this blog about DEI programs, they could scrap the programs, or ignore them.
Respect to everyone else's comments, but this is the long and short of it right here. "Nobody tells me what to do" is the only common factor that runs through the vast majority of Trump's supporters, and is by far the most important in understanding his success, the people who support him, the Republican Party, and American 'conservatism'. As far as I'm concerned, pretty much all other discussion about Trump, Republicans, and American movement conservatism is seriously deficient if this single fact isn't front and center. It is the core and crux of authoritarianism and America's explicit shift towards the same over the past sixty years. Trump is just the most perfectly American version of this ethos that has is one way or another been part or the whole of our sociocultural DNA since 1492.
Trump isn't an anomaly. His character is in many ways the essence of what makes this country what it is. He is, in a particularly unforgiving fashion, the embodiment of what makes this country tick and in his own feral way he understands this, which is exactly how he has been able to pull it off.
Also most of the Fox News watchers have never heard of a lot of those points.
Republican voters have lied pretty much my entire life about why they vote the way they do. Can’t support the Dem because he was a draft dodger? Then they elect a draft dodger. Cant support the Dem because he would run up deficits? Then they elect a guy who immediately created a deficit after a Dem handed him a surplus. Can’t support the Dem because he cheated on his wife? Then they elect a guy who cheated on each of his wives multiple times, with a porn star. And he’s the evangelical champion.
It’s like the stages of grief. I’m seeing several interviews where republican voters have finally reached the point where they stop lying to justify their votes. My fave is a couple who just absolutely rip Trump.
Trump’s moral character is “terrible,” one said
“I don’t think he’s fit,” to be president, replied Kay Swart, before adding: “But I’m voting for him.”
Trump is “most definitely” of low character, poor morals and poor ethics,” her husband said. “I feel as wrong as it’s going to be to have him for president, he’s still going to be a lot better president for the United States than what we’ve gotten with Joe Biden and the Democrats.”
The most honest republican voters ever? … yes some Dems are like this too. I’m not a Dem. But there’s no comparison.
They're physiologically unable to not vote for a Republican, their anxieties would destroy them. It's the same mechanism as with gun ownership, they hide all their anxiety behind it, lose it and all that threatens to burst out.
re: a question someone raised earlier,
E. Jean Carroll could be the nail in Trump's coffin at sentencing: ex-judge,
https://www.rawstory.com/e-jean-carroll-trump-2668431584/
The judge is also going to get lots of letters saying "we know where you live", "we know where your daughter lives", etc.
Pure class, these folks.
Ukraine, "losers" buried at Normandy, Jan 6, Classified docs,
and imo number 1-
40+ GOP senators who won't speak up
“Been convicted of covering up an affair with a porn star.”
I don’t know how Kevin keeps not understanding what the crimes are that Trump was convicted for. I can only assume his paycheck depends on him not understanding it. But Trump was convicted yesterday of falsifying business records in order to commit or conceal other crimes. If he had just paid Stormy out of his own personal checking account, the 34 crimes he was convicted of wouldn’t have existed. (It’s not a crime to pay off a porn star to cover up an affair as long as you use your own money to do it.)
I don’t know how Kevin keeps not understanding what the crimes are that Trump was convicted for.
He understands better than you do.
Trump was indeed convicted for falsifying business records.
In the political realm and in the court of public opinion, he was indeed convicted for "covering up an affair with a porn star." Kevin's exactly right.
I agree with much of the above, but any such theory has to explain why the right wing strongman shtick plays so well all over the world, in many different cultures. Brazil, Turkey, Hungary, Israel, India, Russia, just for starters. And even places that are holding out for now (the EU) seem to be losing ground.
It’s nothing special about trump, nothing particular to the US.
My guess - emphasizing guess - is the powerlessness we all feel in the face of the global corporations, who have learned to play governments like a toy. When the D’s bought into neoliberalism they lost the ability to meaningfully stand up for the little guy, or even appear to do so.
Correctly describing a problem is the first step to overcoming it. Help me out here …
Cannot actually help you out, but I agree that the question how such POS gets so much support is an important question.
Just saying that these people are [whatever] is not enough, because it doesn't help fixing it.
I think its immigration, the movement of elites away from rural areas, and the growing instability of religious beliefs, all of which makes some fraction of a population want surety (in whatever form). So psychotic charlatans make these people their mark, and mass "news" marketing gets the message out. I base this all on my little corner of the world, so no graphs.