Today's big news is the House Ethics Committee's report into the relentless sleaziness of (former) Rep. Matt Gaetz. Naturally you want to see this in chart form:
According to the report, these are all the women Gaetz paid for sex. "Woman 1" isn't included because she was Gaetz's long-term girlfriend and therefore "some of the payments may have been of a legitimate nature." Likewise, "Woman 10" is presumably really "Victim A," the 17-year-old Gaetz statutorily raped in 2017.¹
As it happens, I don't think the report tells us anything we didn't already know. Obviously Gaetz is a sleazeball. On the other hand, the sex was apparently all consensual; the minor girl was 17 years 8 months old and never mentioned she was underage; the drugs were just the usual party pharmacopeia of the time; the alleged gift violation was a single trip to the Bahamas;² and he helped one of his girls get a passport.
I'm happy to see Gaetz gone, but honestly, I can't get too worked up about this stuff. I really don't care much about consensual sex and drugs, and the other stuff is only barely over the line. He's hardly worth wasting an indictment on.
¹Allegedly.
²In other words, about a twentieth of a Clarence.
I have to wonder how much cash t-Rump, our next Pres, not in waiting, spent on women or to cover his grab em" habit.
And then,, with a prod from Kevin's mention of Thomas, are there any among Trump's nominees to cabinet and other senior positions, or indeed GOP appointments to oversee the law of the land, who aren't sleaze buckets? And this is the party of Christian righteousness, law and order, and other hate-filled excuses for American values.
"As it happens, I don't think the report tells us anything we didn't already know."
If this is the standard Trump applies to nominate his AG, what does it say about his other nominees?
Sure! What (Republican) man doesn't hand his "girlfriend" a wad of hundreds at the end of every "date"? Or at least leave the currency on the nightstand.
He may not be worth wasting an indictment on, but he's certainly not worth wasting a Congressional seat on, or a Cabinet appointment. The fact that he managed to get both, no matter their current null status, is a sign of how far a certain political party has fallen.
Ok let’s play whether this should be charged (in honor of Duncan). How do this offenses compare with Hunter Biden. We have sex, drugs, prostitution, improper expenses. One did it for four years! The other had serious case of drug addiction that affected his judgment for a few months plus a gun charge by a seller who doctored the receipt. Who did the DOJ charge? You are telling me that the corrupt Justice Department under the democrats only charged one party. Is not that proof corruption right there!? (Check notes, the Republican scofflaw got away with a whimper of an investigation, the Democrat scofflaw has a special prosecutor!! who then proceeded to violate his own plea bargain offer, keep checking notes). Look sparkle motion!!!
Are you forgetting tax evasion, acting as an unregistered foreign agent, and either acting as a conduit for bribes to his father or convincing people that he could do so.
I will bet you dollars to donuts that the only people still buying Hunter's paintings are those trying to arrange a pardon or clemency and that the market for them will totally dry up at 12:00pm Jan 20.
Whereas the Arabs’ three billion dollars of bribes to the spawn-in-law in the West Wing have paid off handsomely.
The Republican Party is an utter disgrace.
Please don't feed the troll. It only leaves its droppings to get attention. Starve the troll.
Will your obsession with Hunter Biden doing what countless family members of politicians have been doing forever dry up to?
Contrary to lyin gscum like you, republcian house searched for years using its full subpoena power for evidence he ever acted as an unregistered foreign agent and turned up absolutely nothing, If he was ta king bribe for Joe why is Joe still upper middle class? "dollars to donuts that the only people still buying Hunter's paintings are those trying to arrange a pardon or clemency" You'd lose badly. When the NYPost broke the story about Hunter's artwork, it included three experts of art, all who agreed that each of Hunter's pieces was worth 5 to to low 6 figures. And this is the freakin New York Post.
Totally disagree. He raped a teenager when he was in his 40s. He paid money to do this, which makes it human trafficking. There are a hell of a lot of people in prison for this, and Gaetz shouldn't be above the law. If anything, he should be made an example of.
You bring a good point. I mean I don’t want to sound like a prude but is KD suggesting that statutory rape laws should be done away with? Does he think a coked up seventeen year old teenager can give consent to a forty year old man of authority? Really KD, you may have step on this one.
I think "statutory rape" is a misnomer. Having factually consensual sex with a person who is not legally able to consent is a crime, but it's NOT rape as that word is ordinarily understood.
Incidentally, a coked up seventeen year old is pretty much as able to give consent as a coked up eighteen year old. One day makes essentially zero moral difference but legally it can make the difference between legal consensual sex with an eighteen year old and a twenty year prison sentence for statutory rape of a seventeen year old. That has never made sense to me.
Then 16 is also ok? 15? No limit?
They’re all arbitrary.
The median age of first intercourse for American girls (ages of consents are primarily aimed at girls) is 15, and for a substantial portion that first intercourse occurs before their fifteenth birthday. Setting the age of consent higher than 14 is just a denial of reality.
Which is why we have romeo and julliet laws.
"Setting the age of consent higher than 14 is just a denial of reality."
Indeed! Why should lawnorder suffer any social stigma or legal consequences from cruising for a date among junior high students? It's just convenient--lawnorder can drive them back to (his) home after soccer practice, since 14 year olds obviously cannot drive themselves.
Seriously, what the fuck, man.
The usual foolishness. I've never dated a junior high school; the last time I dated a senior high school girl I was a senior high school student.
I have always preferred older women, but aldoushickman doesn't understand how a person can stand on principle without anything to gain from it.
While I agree with you, it is nevertheless the law of the land and lots of man have gone to prison for lengthy terms because they didn't and couldn't know a girl was less than 18. Fake ids, and not being aware has never been a valid defense.
If the DOJ had a prosecutable case, and if he was currently under indictment, this piece of shit would be getting a full tilt defense by the MAGA morons and Faux News, as another case of Sleepy Joe's politically weaponized DOJ railroading an innocent conservative Republican.
Statutory rape of a girl is just fine with these folks, but if he raped a boy, or paid for an abortion (god forgive), MAGA would run for hills.
Exactly. Trump was convicted of 34 felonies by a unanimous jury and not a single MAGA gives a shit.
They adore vicious sex predators, because they want brutish thugs to defend straight white male “Christian” supremacy. If Bull Connor were still around he’d be VP instead of Vance.
(Also, it defies all common sense to think Trump hasn’t paid for at least one abortion. MAGA wouldn’t care.)
Not clear that is true. It's pretty apparent that maggots would care even less if he raped a boy and none of them have a problem that Trump procured abortions.
Morality and legality are not always congruent. It's clearly immoral for a man to force sexual activity on a woman (or, for that matter, on another man). It's not nearly so clear that it is immoral to have sex with a willing participant who is below an arbitrarily chosen age of consent. In some states the age of consent is lower than in other states. Does the state you're in affect the morality, as opposed to the legality, of your actions?
Also, "paid money for it" makes it prostitution; I don't see human trafficking at all.
The irony that someone with the moniker lawandorder is defending statutory rape and pretending it is no big deal.
Rape doesn't require the use of force you dipshit, it means having sex with someone who didn't consent to it. Guess what, a drugged minor can't consent to it, so the fact that you and Kevin are downplaying this just shows that you are both a pair of creeps.
In plenty of (most?) US states a drugged minor can consent to sex.
BTW is there any evidence that she was "coked up" when she had sex with Gaetz?
A minor can never consent to sex outside of marriage. And under todays legal standards, someone (male or female) who is under the influence can also not consent to sex.
You appear to be conflating "minor" with "below the age of consent". By federal definition, a minor is any person under 18 years old. The age of consent varies from state to state and is less than 18 in, I gather from your post, 14 states. In those 14 states a minor most definitely CAN consent to sex outside of marriage.
The age of consent in many if not most states is 16, so I'm not going to work myself up into a state about someone having sex with a girl almost two years older than that.
The age of consent varies--two under age teens fooling around (with consent) is not a felony. An adult going after juniors in high school probably is...unless they're married.
if that junior is 16 or older it is not even a misdemeanor in most states.
It's a minority of states now (14). Lots of states raised their age of consent laws over the past few decades. And not all states have romeo and julliet laws. So yes, two under age kids fooling around can be felonies (though only the male will be charged).
A person who is drugged unconscious can't consent, and intercourse with an unconscious person is necessarily forced. If they're conscious and over the age of consent, they can consent. Age of consent issues bring up the difference between de facto and de jure. Just because a person is unable to legally give consent does not mean they are factually unable to give consent.
You’re right, morality and legality aren’t always congruent. But you then proceed to blur the distinction by harping on the arbitrary legal limits. In fact, for most of us, a 40-year-old man with some power having sex with a teenage girl is immoral regardless of her precise age or what state they’re in. Matt Gaetz is a disgusting predatory pig everywhere.
It's immoral if the forty year old man has power over the girl (a teacher, for instance, or a stepfather). "Power" in the abstract makes no difference. Can you identify what put Gaetz in a position of power with respect to his "victims".
The crime of human trafficking simply means the prostitute raveled for the sex. That's actually all Epstein was accused of with his girls. He was never actually accused in his court cases of trafficking the girls to other man, only to himself.
"Paid money for it" does not imply travelling.
In other places, Gaetz would have been arrested for solicitation and could have faced jail time. Asking for a friend: Can someone in prison concurrently serve as AG?
Cocaine and ecstasy might be the usual sex party pharmacopeia, but I would bet pot and shrooms are more popular for your ordinary party.
Bottom line: These Gaetz sex parties were probably what Madison Cawthorn was referring to.
Nothing ordinary about a party with shrooms 😉
I hear it's something like this.
😕🫤😯😮😲🥴🫠🙂↕️🫨🤤
As despicable as the behavior was, the bigger story should be that this person was the first choice of the incoming president to head our DOJ and that the GOP was largely fine with this plan (until details of the report leaked out).
Exactly. There's a vast difference between declining to prosecute someone and appointing them to run our entire Federal law enforcement apparatus.
I get this, but even so: the biggest story ought to be that dumbass incompetent Trump wanted to appoint a completely unqualified asshole to the most important legal position in the country.
Like, Gaetz went to law school and practiced for a couple of years at a podunk state regional firm (one that advertises itself to be a "leader in northwest Florida,"--can you get any more parochial than that?), and that's it. Even if he weren't a weirdo cokehead pedo, if he sent me a resume to work as a midlevel associate in my office, I would maybe consider giving him an interview simply because he was a member of Congress, but I wouldn't consider him in any way shape or form qualified to be a midlevel associate attorney charged chiefly with prepping first drafts of memos and taking notes when the partners are talking.
But colossal moron Trump looks at this guy with zip federal legal experience and thinks "He'd make a great Attorney General!" Seriously calls into question Trump's judgment and fitness for the office. Somebody take away the keys--grandpa ain't fit to drive the car anymore . . .
The biggest issues are that as a sitting member of congress engaging in this type of activity he an easy target for blackmail and that he was attempting to obstruct the investigation
Only twelve?
My impression has been he'd blather away about his exploits like it was twelve a day, --is that why he didn't want it coming out?
Suffice it to say he should be nowhere near being Attorney General, or any other top leadership position in the executive branch, but aside from that doesn't sound like he harmed anyone, live and let live.
Paid for Sex with younger women- gasp! Oh wait- Doesn't that make him a Trump Elite?
But sleepy as he is, I thought as he withdrew from nomination AND congress, he's no longer a public figure any more and perhaps they shouldn't have released anything
jmho
"he's no longer a public figure any more and perhaps they shouldn't have released anything"
Counterpoints:
(a) Our tax dollars paid for that investigation, and we taxpayers deserve the information as a result.
(b) Gaetz is no longer a public figure for the moment, but that doesn't prevent him from coming back. The lesson from Trump's inglorious first term failing to kill his political career is that stakes need to be driven into hearts.
So Gaetz is just your run of the mill sleaze ball. Still not really one's first or second or one thousandth pick for AG. What kind of clown president would even consider him for AG>
Gee, let me think about that question....
How long before this piece of shit criticizes someone else for their shitty behavior?
Where does one draw a line between a "long-term" girlfriend who qualifies for payments, and a "short-term" one who does not? More than a month? A day? An hour?
Kevin, wishing you a Merry Christmas.
For my gift this year, I'm hoping you'll work on that Clarence scale; it would be handy measure of corruption and influence peddling.
Cheers!
I would have thought that the "Bob Menendez" scale of corruption would be more appropriate, but since he was tried and convicted (barring a SCOTUS or POTUS reprieve) he will be going to jail, while Clarence is essentially untouchable.
Each corrupt politician is corrupt in their own way; so all have the potential of their own scale. should anyone care to calculate it. Then, you could use the Menendez scale to measure Thomas; the Thomas scale to measure Menendez. I suspect there are a lot of imaginary numbers in the math in each model.
Some corruptions are probably worth the effort for their novelty and worth calculating; most are probably highly predictable.
"the minor girl was 17 years 8 months old and never mentioned she was underage" Lots of people go to prison for that. There was an 19 year old freshman football player at a school I worked at that got years in prison for sleepin with a minor. He had repeatedly met her at the campus bar at 2am (A place you could only legally enter at 21). On the forth time he met her there, he invited her back to his dorm room and they had sex. No one card that there was no way he could have known she was underage.
Likewise, no one cared that the relationship was not in the least "exploitative", although that serves as the primary justification for such laws.