Today the Supreme Court sided against a school district that tried to punish a high school student for sending a "vulgar message" away from school grounds. The ACLU defended the student, and good for them. Free speech is free speech, and it should protect even kids on their own time.
But then there's this:
Say it with us:
Fuck school.
Fuck softball.
Fuck cheer.
Fuck everything.We know our First Amendment rights and we will use them. Get the new Fuck Everything tee today.https://t.co/yd7ojHzXwh pic.twitter.com/4fACzyXSRb
— ACLU (@ACLU) June 23, 2021
Really? Are they trying to make sure to offend the public over this? Shouldn't our goal be to get people on our side, not to make them wonder if this is the right side after all?
Come on, people. Think. We're supposed to be the adults here.
They won a case. They had a little fun. And everyone uses the f-word these days.
I doubt anyone under 60 is offended by this.
Maybe it's just cause I'm well past 60, but I'm offended.
I'm not offended by the use of the f-word. Of course, I use it myself.
But the ACLU is supposed to be about endorsing the principle of freedom of speech, and their victory in this case moves the cause forward. It is *not* supposed to be endorsing the message. And that is what they are implicitly doing by selling t-shirts that repeat that message.
If I recall correctly, and I'm reasonably confident I do, the events underlying the case involve a disappointed and frustrated early teenager basically throwing a tantrum on social media because she wasn't picked for something. Sure, I endorse her constitutional right to do that. But I certainly don't approve of what she did there. She was being a brat--as kids her then-age are wont to do. No big deal. But not something to highlight, publicize, and disseminate.
And as a dues-paying ACLU member, I'm not happy about it.
Really, they are endorsing that you can wear a shirt that says the message. I think it's safe that the ACLU has no opinion about high school cheer.
II suppose the ACLU has no opinion on high school cheer. But they are celebrating an immature adolescent's vulgar outburst. Kudos to them for defending her right to do it, but shame on them for making it like it was a good thing she did.
Let's put it this way. Let's say the next free speech case the win at SCOTUS involves defending some Nazis rights. Would it be OK for them to mark their victory by selling swastika-emblazoned tees?
Kudos to them for defending her right to do it, but shame on them for making it like it was a good thing she did.
Let's put it this way. Let's say the next free speech case the win at SCOTUS involves defending some Nazis rights. Would it be OK for them to mark their victory by selling swastika-emblazoned tees?
No, but in no universe is "F____ cheer" the same as a swastika.
The reality is that what she said was harmless. It wasn't even a difficult case. Maybe you shouldn't say "F____ cheer" in a job interview or at a church service, but it is a totally appropriate thing to say to your friends on Snapchat. Not simply not punishable, but appropriate.
It's 2021. It's long past time to be getting our collective knickers in a twist over the f-word.
Coming from a 14 year old girl, saying fuck the world is funny. She didn't do a bad thing.
It's Slim Shady's world. We're just living in it.
That one really takes me back! Dick Cheney is mentioned in that one.
Whoops that was the next album, a couple years later.
I'm not offended by the language.
Just annoyed at such childish behavior by supposed adults, and especially annoyed that those childish adults are spending my donations to carry on like children.
The game plan is to protect our rights. Childish taunting isn't one of the plays in my playbook.
Always remember: we live in a cheertatorship, not a cheerocracy.
2-4-6-8!
Monty's joke, we appreciate!
i want to believe this is Bring It On reference.
"Sorry, Courtney, this isn't a democracy. It's a cheerocracy, and I'm overruling you."
- Torrance Shipman
Indeed.
I veritably wouldn’t want my kids seeing these shirts.
**certainly
64 here and this is just funny. Old people need to grow up.
It's offensive and stupid. Are they thinking kids are going to buy these and wear to school to exercise their rights? Because that's what it looks like. Is their stance that kids who wear this to school should not be sent home? What kind of fight is this? Why?
Kevin do you want us to get off of your lawn too?
I'm with limitholdemblog - the ACLU is having some fun celebrating the constitutional right to vent using as many F bombs as you'd like.
This is in one ear out the other type of news.
Oh come the fuck on, people.
I'm pushing 50, white, cishet male. I am a prime resentment-vessel to be filled by vacuous horse shit about all sorts of things.
This is so not one of them.
But by all means, if you like the stupid Democratic game of Fuck your Friends Over before Republicans Get a Chance, please continue.
It's Merchandizing. Somewhere someone realized they can make a lot of money selling T's with minimal investment. It's now caught on. Capitalism has gotten to the ACLU.
Yeah, jeez.
I don't really care about the word "fuck" nor am I offended by it. But it does make the ACLU look juvenile and makes me take it less seriously (and it is an organization that should be taken very seriously). Not a fan of pushing merch onto people in this way either. This seems more like a marketing campaign for edgy teens.
It's all in jest.
Unfortunately, it is also a plea for apathy.
Well, remember that the ACLU is all for Nazis marching through Jewish neighborhoods. You must admit, they're consistent.
"ACLU defends Neonazis right to burn down ACLU headquarters".
Unlike anticancelcultarians Andy Sullivan & Glemm Greemwald & Bill Maher, the ACLU actually are free speech absolutists.
The usual gang of glibertarian idiots named above just want to say patent racisms without pushback.
There is no point in criticizing this. Or rather, no upside.
I don't quite get the angle of the ACLU on this, I frankly thought it was fake.
However, what the ACLU often does is argue that its the unpopular civil liberties which need protecting the most.
It does not logically follow that if you argue a certain speech should be protected that you adopt that speech yourself.
But its a waste of time to point out that 99% of Democrats do not, as a general position, have "f-school" as one of their core principals.
We need out own propaganda, and stating we don't agree with fringe left proposals is not it.
Seven Words You Can Never Say on Television -- you're old enough to know this.
In our lifetime, I'd love to see a 1A lawsuit to shut down police who would arrest Americans for saying, "Fuck you, cocksucking motherfucker."*
But first, eliminate QI.
That way, people can sue individual police officers for being cocksucking motherfuckers* who arrest people on account that they took offense to being insulted to their face.
* -- partial quote from George Carlin
Oh piffle. Anyone who decides to be offended by this is looking WAY too hard for things to be offended by. And they're looking very much in the wrong places, and too hard at leaves and not at trees.
Yes, it's ridiculous to be offended by profanity in public where kids can see it when there are true offenses out there like Mr. Potato Head and the Land O' Lakes Indian.
Your dismissal of Kevin’s concern completely fails to recognize how Republicans weaponize statements like this to keep their base riled up, and also to persuade voters in the middle to vote Republican. I guarantee that statements like this don’t go over well with plenty of people in that middle.
And liberal and progressive willingness to say things like this is just one additional reason we continue to struggle in elections.
While we're on the constructive criticism bandwagon, you'd reduce total readership CO2 output, reduce eye strain, and slow macular degeneration if you switched your site to a dark mode.
$40 for a t-shirt? Fuck that.
LOL
In Quebec, using f*was recently determined not to be swearing, presumably, because it isn’t, relatively speaking, a Québécois swear word. On the other hand, tarbarnac (tabernacle) is swearing. Yet, of course, everyone in Quebec knows exactly what f* means with the reverse being true for tarbarbac for many English speaking Canadians. As for the ACLU, well it really is just a matter of perspective and that particular word implies nothing about anything other than an act of sex. Essentially, the meaning is pointless, what is important is that some in society find it offensive and others do not. There is just no point to needlessly offending others, so I’m kind of with Kevin on this one re the ACLU.
Walking from car to work at a public library I heard Hispanic, white, and black parents use the f-word on their young children, usually along the lines of "Get the fuck over here". Not often, but surprising to me. At work, among young adults, it was often used but never in my hearing in a sexual sense. I once asked a man in his twenties not to use the word in the library and he contended that it was not a swear word any more. That was probably 15 years ago. The ACLU t-shirt seems foolish to me but I am old.
Spiking the ball after such an easy case speaks volumes as to the character of the ACLU. Is this what champions do?
Well, given the fair play status of turnabout, presumably some may now start selling “FUCK aclu” t-shirts.
And perhaps one pointing out that Can, May, and Should are not synonyms…
come on kevin, no one who doesn't hate the ACLU already will give a fuck or even know about it.
My bet is Tucker Carlson will devote a week to it.
Umm, two of us who are dues paying ACLU members have posted above about being offended by it.
On the plus side, I do want to see Team Woke try to justify why wearing this shirt in public is OK, but why wearing an appropriately illustrated "I like big tits and I cannot lie" T-shirt is not...
"You see, your honor, when we wrote our Piss Christ amicus, we were supporting the idea of offending the squares; but we insist that the particular things WE consider sacred be treated differently by the court".
Link between Maynard Handley's letter and the last column: conservatives will never run out of things to be offended by. You could give in to their wishes to openly call black people n______s. women c___s, Asians c____s or g____s, gays f___s, and trans people "fucking weirdo perverts who should be shot" and they still won't be satisfied.
What makes you think I am a "conservative"?
I'me the guy who looks at the situation and says "so it's OK to mock THEIR taboos, but it's not acceptable to mock YOUR taboos. OK..."
I'm with Kevin. And like him I am pointing out that gleefully running around saying we should not only take this win, but celebrate wearing shirts saying "fuck" in public is unlikely to end well for those who support this idea. I'm simply pointing out a different angle along which this will end badly for its supporters.
Do you think the logical ACLU followup to the Skokie win should have been the ACLU tweeting a few choice quotes from Mein Kampf prefaced by "This is what we're fighting for. Order your copy today."?
I scrolled through a bunch of messages here, but there is a story behind the shirt. This was the message that she posted to Snapchat that got her in trouble. Fuck it.
Well, yeah. And the ACLU ought to put out an oldie but goodie T with marching Nazis and the legend "We're marching with you, bros!"
Or maybe not.
I have to say that I still don't understand this case. I'm all for the First Amendment rights of students, but cheer is a purely voluntary activity that, it seems to me, should be able to set standards of behavior and attitude. I suspect her attitude may be why she did not do well at cheer in the first place.
The issue in the case is whether the school (or agent of the school, the coach) can punish the student for speech that occurred outside of school, that did not cause a disruption at the school. The Court has previously ruled that the school can police speech outside of school that disrupts the school (bullying, etc).
"speech ... that did not cause a disruption at the school"
How could this NOT have? Not only was the girl's screed published to literally the world, it was on a medium read by (at least) all the Kool Kidz at her school. Then it hit the national media. It wasn't like she had a long rant at the local S'bux or wherever the Kool Kidz hang out physically these days.
I get that, and I agree that an ordinary student should not be punished for what they say out of school. But don't cheerleaders voluntarily assume an obligation to positively represent the school in all sorts of ways and venues? Given my attitude in high school, I could never have been a cheerleader. It seems perfectly reasonable that a coach might conclude that neither she (nor I) should be cheerleaders until we get our act together.
As I understood this, she didn’t make the varsity cheerleading squad. Aren’t “cheerleading” and “cheer” separate things? That’s what I was told.
I’m sure the ACLU would have taken the case no matter what, but I wonder if they would have created the t-shirt if the person had said “Fuck Shakespeare, Fuck Math, Fuck Science, and Fuck School”?
Childish and pointless. Alienate people for no reason. Alienate people in a time when people getting alienated is a problem already spiraling out of control.
With the ACLU having internal debates with younger members about whether they should cut back defending people with political views they don't like, one must wonder if the ACLU is becoming a bit decoupled from their guiding principles.
Democrats just can't be a majority. We will only be happy as a persecuted minority.
Hey! Republicans have already seized that niche!
Both sides are fighting for that position.
For every delusional lunatic crying about the War on Christmas, there's an equally delusional lunatic crying about the War on Women -- both convinced that their insane understandings of the world somehow correspond to reality.
Do you suppose the ACLU paid a licensing fee to the student for using her published quote?
I seriously doubt ACLU would have printed up a batch of nazi t-shirts if they won the Skokie, Illinois case today.
The ACLU might not even take the Skokie case today.
This one is really bizarre to me. The people outraged by this are the ones who seem to always be complaining that liberals get outraged too much.
And what is the outrage over this about, really? I honestly don't get it?
Is it vulgar?
Yes, that's the point. ACLU is showing their support for vulgarity. This is not a new position.
Are they endorsing the message rather than the right to speak it?
Not really. Outside of it's original cheer-related context, the text doesn't really have any meaning or point other than its vulgarity, which is what ACLU is supporting. This isn't like the ACLU defending nazis and then selling a t-shirt of a swastika. Nobody is going to conclude that the ACLU is anti-cheer or anything. It's clear (at least to me) from the shirt that they're supporting the right to express those sentiments, not that they've gone punk or anarchist.
Should the ACLU be marketing based on cases it wins?
I personally find this a bit icky, but we live in a capitalist country and they need to raise money. I find it icky that politicians spend most of their time begging donors for money, too, but everyone just accepts it. What are you gonna do? I don't know if it will actually raise them money, but I don't go around complaining about the quality of people's merch.
Is this going to lose supporters to the free speech cause?
I certainly hope not. If your commitment to free speech ends when you see a t-shirt you find offensive, then we're in trouble the first time you go to a t-shirt shop or Spencer Gifts.
Is this going to lose support or respect for the ACLU?
I'm extremely skeptical. As long as I've been alive, any time the ACLU defends speech someone doesn't like (regardless of which side it offends), someone gets mad at them. Like it or not, defending speech is what they do, they don't care what you think about the speech in question, and they've never been shy about flaunting that. Most people either shrug it off or decide they don't like the ACLU. But doing an extended "woke kids at the ACLU today" old man rant is new.
After this ridiculous kerfuffle, maybe us older folks need to admit we're just as whiny and sensitive as the Kids Today.
The t-shirts are dumb, but WTF...
I just hope that the ACLU will continue to defend free speech regardless of the speaker(s). Wish I were more sure that it will.