Brittney Griner has been freed from jail in Russia as part of a prisoner swap for Victor Bout, an arms dealer currently serving a 25-year sentence in the medium-security Marion Penitentiary in Illinois.
The swap is getting a lot of flak, especially from conservatives, since Bout is a legitimate bad guy while Griner is little more than a hostage who was imprisoned for having a gram of hashish oil in her bag—in other words, nothing.
This is a fair criticism, but it's worth noting a couple of things. First, Bout was a garden variety arms trader who was imprisoned only because he was caught in a DEA sting. Second, even the judge who sentenced him thought his sentence was excessive:
“He got a hard deal,” said [Shira] Scheindlin, the retired judge, noting the U.S. sting operatives “put words in his mouth” so he’d say he was aware Americans could die from weapons he sold in order to require a terrorism enhancement that would force a long prison sentence, if not a life term. Scheindlin gave Bout the mandatory minimum 25-year sentence but said she did so only because it was required.
Third, Bout has already served ten years in prison, which is arguably a fair sentence for what he actually did. Fourth, Russians sincerely believe that the US treated Bout inexcusably and have been demanding his release for years.
None of this is meant to take sides on the prisoner swap. Whatever you can say about Bout's treatment, it's clear that Griner was little more than a pawn. The problem here is obvious: even if you think Bout was treated harshly, the swap encourages other countries to arrest innocent Americans as fodder for their own swaps. As an innocent American myself, I find that prospect unnerving.
"Third, Bout has already served ten years in prison," He's actually been in custody for 14.75 years. It's been 11 years since he was convicted, he was held for 2.5 years in Thailand at the US request before extradition and he was in pre-conviction custody for a year.
This is correct. The judge that actually sentenced him actually said that based on the time served he could have be up for release in as little as 5 years.
To me that is what made it a good deal for Biden to take. Had he said no to the deal, Griner stays in prison with a long sentence still ahead of her, and in a few years Bout sill goes free anyway. The longer the negotiations lasted, the less and less value Bout held for the US, since sooner than later Russia would just say "We'll just wait it out until you have to release him".
"innocent Americans"?
You visit another country, you follow that country's laws. You may not like the laws, but you don't get to claim that, as an outsider, they simply don't apply to you.
I find it amazing that the exact same Americans who decry concepts like extraterritoriality, and who can't believe that Europeans in China in the 19th C carved out their own little enclaves subject to their laws, not China's ACTUALLY think the same concept should still hold today when it comes to foreign laws of which they disapprove.
"You visit another country, you follow that country's laws."
Setting aside whether or not Russia is a country that actually has the rule of law (fyi, it doesn't), there's nothing objectionable about folks in the US decrying a 9-year sentence in some Russian hellhole of a prison for possession of a trivial amount of marijauna-adjacent material. I and many other lefty folks are certainly on record objecting to the US criminal justice system ruining people's lives for similar "crimes," so I'm not sure why we should conclude that it's just fine if it's Russia that does it instead.
(This is of course setting aside the reality that in Russia, business, the government, and the mob are all more-or-less the same entity, so it's beyond farcical to think that the Russian criminal justice system was dispassionately applying the law here).
Anyway, what's your point? That Griner *ought* to spend nearly a decade in some latter-day Gulag? That the US was wrong to pursue a deal to secure her release?
this
Admirably argued.
The US has sentenced people to life in prison for Griner's offense. And not in the distant past but this year.
So because that's wrong, we're not allowed to criticize something else that's also wrong?
The ones who didn't follow Russia's laws were the Russian prosecutors and the Russian judges. Griner had less than a gram of hash oil. Under Russian law, possession of less than two grams is punishable by a fine and a maximum of 15 days incarceration. So, they charged and convicted her of intent to distribute. Intent to distribute less than a gram.
Now THAT is a good counterargument.
Not a claim that "she's innocent because I don't like the law she broke and foreign laws don't count" but a clarification as to the exact legal details.
What remains unclear to me is the "intent to distribute". For example I could well believe that she suggested to at least one other person in Russia "hey, try my vaporizer" which then (technically) ends the claims of personal use only...
She was crossing the border. You always get a worse charge and sentence when your drugs cross an international border. So you are completely wrong.
"Griner was little more than a pawn." it is irrefutable that Griner broke Russian law and a Russian in her situation would also have been charged and convicted. It is irrefutable that her sentence was ridiculous but it should be noted americans have been sentenced to life for the same level of drug crime as griner in an american court. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/january/its-like-hell-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-minor-drug-offenses-under-three-strikes-laws
And your point is?
That it is hypocritical for the Us o say the sentence is clearly unreasonable.
Okay, it's hypocritical. That doesn't mean the US shouldn't say it.
Irrefutable? Because it's impossible to imagine that the same Russian government that used her as a pawn and oversees a thoroughly politicized, corrupt justice system manufactured a case against her?
"it is irrefutable that Griner broke Russian law and a Russian in her situation would also have been charged and convicted"
I'm pretty sure that millions of Russians use drugs without being sentenced to a decade in prison. And I'm doubly certain that Russians with connections don't get convicted of anything, and that many Russians who cross El Presidente Putino run a solid risk of getting charged and convicted of things that they either never did or that weren't illegal when they did them.
Didn't say a Russian would have got 9 years. But if caught, an average russian would be charged and convicted.
Except, of course, the punishments handed out under a three strikes law is entirely irrelevant to the Griner case, because it was a first offense. Under Russian law, the statutory punishment for a first offense possession of les than two grams of hash is a fine and a maximum of 15 days in jail. Has Russia given her that sentence, I doubt anyone would be complaining.
Instead, they charged and convicted her for intent to distribute. There claim was that possessing a tiny amount of hash oil was evidence that she planned to make a living selling it.
So, no, a Russian in her situation would not also have been charged and convicted of the crime she was.
"Except, of course, the punishments handed out under a three strikes law is entirely irrelevant to the Griner case" Only to lying scum.
"There claim was that possessing a tiny amount of hash oil was evidence that she planned to make a living selling it." More deliberate and intentional lies on your part. She got caught carrying it over an international border. That always meets a definition of trafficking.
pretty sure we know why the right is upset about swapping anyone for griner.
And they haven't even been discreet about it. The things they've said today will keep African Americans voting >90% Democrat for another decade at least.
The Russians have never been able to produce a positive drug test for any athlete and we are supposed to believe Russia that Griner had drugs?
Gold Medal comment!
The ROC would like to lodge a complaint!
She may be innocent of the drug related crime. She is guilty of being a Russian stooge… or something. I’m sure there are plenty of grieving Ukrainians who are not terribly impressed with her. Neither am I. I look forward to hearing her pleas for forgiveness.
I wonder… would she go back next year or later for the right price?
Yeah, because anybody who takes a job in an authoritarian country for economic reasons is putting their whole heart into endorsing that country's authoritarian government. You know, just like Filipino domestic workers are stooges for Mohammed bin Salman if they work in Saudi Arabia!
Just beyond dumb.
She’s a useless fucking basketball player… dancing for money. Like a whore. I have more respect for the domestic.
Always nice to the racists come out from the shadows so I can ignore whatever they say in the future. GFY.
Agree, but what it really means is that you have to avoid traveling to countries with crazy leaders who might use you for a pawn.
Like, I have relatives in Turkey, but I'm not sure that I'd visit them these days; Erdogan doesn't have a great relationship with the US these days. Maybe I'd meet them in Greece instead....
Hungary's probably OK 🙂
Odds of being arrested on trumped up charges are higher in Hungary. But go ahead and visit. WE should be able to persuade the Hungarians to do us a favor.
"Griner is little more than a hostage who was imprisoned"
I don't really understand this part of the argument. Isn't a political prisoner exactly who we should be trading low level foreign criminals to free?
Not to be a nitpicker but I think of a political prisoner as someone imprisoned for their politics
I’d call her a plain old hostage probably
I think it's ok just to be happy about this.
I confess I get very irritated with Americans who unquestioningly swallow the "wrongfully detained" narrative any time one of their fellow citizens is found guilty of a crime in another country. Griner was tried, convicted and sentenced in accordance with Russian law, after she voluntarily submitted to their jurisdiction by going there to work. It's cheap politics for Biden to act as if she's an innocent victim who did nothing wrong.
Just as it's cheap politics for Republicans to bray about the "Merchant of Death". One could be forgiven for thinking Bout worked for the CIA.
Griner was tried, convicted and sentenced in accordance with Russian law . . .
No, she was not. Russian law says that possession of less than two grams of hash is punishable by a fine and a maximum of 15 days in jail. Griner was charged, convicted, and sentenced for intent to distribute, which is ludicrous in this situation.
But the law you are quoting is irrelevant when the drugs are carried across an international border.
You keep saying that, but I haven't seen you provide any evidence.
As a hard and fast rule: NEVER bring drugs of any kind into a foreign country without first checking to make sure they are legal there. Do not assume that a prescription will make it OK. Those you do bring, keep them in their original packaging with the original prescription label attached.
And keep them to a minimum. Essential prescriptions only, and only the supply you'll need for your planned stay plus a little extra in case your flight is delayed. Don't pack over-the-counter drugs, there are pharmacies in every foreign city and if you unexpectedly need something you can buy it.
Griner is far from the only person who's run into trouble because of this, she's just the best known. Tons of people have come to grief because they naively brought Adderall to Japan. Don't let it happen to you. Do your Googling before you pack your bag.
Trading Griner for Bout is only remotely justifiable if you believe that Griner really was arrested and imprisoned for use in a trade, not because she was legitimately guilty of a drug offense.
In that case, however, the Biden Administration is guilty of malfeasance by not ordering all Americans to leave Russia and announcing that if any who choose to stay or visit are arrested the US will not give Russia anything to rescue them.
What will the Biden Administration do if Russia arrests another American next week to trade for another Russian criminal in US custody?
Griner really was arrested and imprisoned for political purposes, because she was not legitimately guilty of the drug offense she was convicted for. She was convicted for intent to distribute. Intent to distribute 0.7 grams of hash oil. The crime Griner was actually guilty of carries a penalty of a five and a maximum of 15 days incarceration.
As for the Biden administration, do you mean that they should have issued a Level 4 Travel Advisory, which instructs Americans not to travel to Russia?
From July 2021: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07/15/opinion/whats-harm-visiting-russia/
And no government will ever declare that they will not act on behalf of its citizens that are unjustly imprisoned in a foreign country. Nor should they.
I don't know who others think, but if ANY WNBA (or NBA) players go to Russia to "augment their incomes", the government should make it clear that they do so at their own risk.
Effyouseekay the Russians; they're killing Ukrainians remotely "just because" and to terrorize them. They're basketball fans; make it clear that no American will play in Russia again until all of their troops are out of Ukraine, pre-2014 borders and Vladimir Putin is hanging from a gibbet.
Sure, it's a pinprick, but the more pinpricks we stick in them, the sooner they'll realize that what their country is doing is NOT OK in the 21st Century.
Let me start by saying that Griner’s sentence was unduly harsh and the prisoner swap was a net positive. But as far as all the information we have, Griner was not innocent. Further, any American who goes to Russia caveat emptor. Here in the states we would contemplate prosecution, at least until recently, of anyone carrying any amount of THC and sentencing them to prison. Don’t be surprised to still find minorities in prison for many years for pot possession in places like Oklahoma. In the U.S., people are still being prosecuted and serving 5 year federal sentences for drug possession. So for once, let’s not think that Russia is an outlier here.
I'm amazed at all the people arguing that Griner deserved what Russia did to her. Wow ... just wow.
I wonder what the response would have been to a white WNBA player?
2 things
1 - take the win you can get
2 - beware of repeat performance by the adversary; the next one will require tit-for-tat at least, or Sean Connery's "Chicago Rules"