On its first anniversary, Doyle McManus writes about our withdrawal from Afghanistan:
It was Biden’s worst foreign policy failure, and prompted warnings that more catastrophes would follow: not only the tragedy of Taliban rule over 38 million Afghans, but a resurgence of international terrorism and a collapse of U.S. influence around the world.
Ah yes, Joe Biden's infamous "chaotic" withdrawal. I think we can all agree that the Taliban continues to be the appalling and thuggish group it's always been, but there was never any real argument about that in the first place. But how about everything else?
Terrorism? Contrary to pessimists’ fears, the Afghan-based core of Al Qaeda hasn’t succeeded in rebuilding.
....As for broader damage to U.S. credibility, reports of our demise appear to have been exaggerated....To Biden’s credit, he followed through, building international coalitions to counter China’s growing power....He also worked to assure NATO allies that the withdrawal from Afghanistan, where more than 50 other countries also sent troops, would not weaken the U.S. commitment to Europe.
Those relationships were tested within months, when Russia’s Vladimir Putin threatened to invade Ukraine. Biden and his aides took a leading role in organizing an allied response, including warnings that Western countries would impose joint economic sanctions on Russia if Putin launched an invasion.
To Putin’s apparent surprise, the NATO allies were serious. Even more surprisingly, the outbreak of war in Eastern Europe prompted Sweden and Finland to abandon their long-held status as neutral countries and apply hurriedly for membership in the U.S.-led alliance.
As McManus concludes, the fall of Kabul had "surprisingly modest" repercussions beyond Afghanistan itself:
A year later, Biden’s decision to withdraw, however disastrous it appeared at the time, looks more defensible.
Quite so. I would certainly like to hear a few others acknowledge this.
Unfortunately, we can expect to hear frequent stories about courageous, loyal, much-loved interpreters/nannies/drivers/personal assistants/comrades-in-arms who were despicably betrayed and left behind by a feckless senile president for as long as Biden remains in office.
They'll be interpolated with stories of Afghan refugees, allowed to enter the country by a feckless president, who proceeded to commit terrible crimes against innocent Americans.
Sadly, yes.
Doublethink! It's not just for Oceania anymore.
Well that's not our problem.
Phhpt. Everyone has to make sacrifices.
Hey, they got out! Wonderful!
It's a shame. But what can we do? Our hands are tied by Trump who signed a deal to leave and the lives of Americans are more important than others, right?
Well that's an awful shame, but they should have gotten out sooner. Their fault.
Lies, all lies!
You can't bomb people into freedom.
Karma dictates Kevin’s next life be that of an Afghan woman.
Please. The guilt for the suffering of Afghan women (and musicians, artists, poets, athletes, LGBTQ+ and many others) lies squarely on Afghan men, many more of whom were willing to fight for a repressive theocratic state ruled by terror, than for a state with at least a modicum of freedom and tolerance.
Absolutely Right!
I remember when the old Afghan king showed up shortly after the Taliban was temporarily defeated. A loya jirga was called; a meeting of the tribal leaders, warlords, and other big shots to discuss how to run things. I thought this is great. We can just let the Afghans run things their own way. We'll just need to shell out a few hundred million dollars a year to get them to keep the Taliban suppressed and we can get out.
But NO, the fools in the Bush administration hustled the king out and embarked on their plan to turn the place into a modern democracy. Those fools never learn, do they?
Yes, & if the deal made by the putative master of the art of the deal had (1) not dealt with the Taliban & blocked out the elected Afghsn government, & (2) proceeded to undertake the agreed-upon withdrawal, instead of deliberately leaving it to his successor, he would be the one being blamed, at least by reasonable people.
Exactly right. TFG unilaterally surrendered Afghanistan to the Taliban about 3 years ago and set the turnover date for April 2021. No consultation with the then official government. Also no consultation with the official government when TFG had several thousand Taliban soldiers released - including some senior commanders.
Since the TFG administration didn't do any of the normal transition work with the incoming Biden administration, they didn't have any official information about any of that. So they didn't get to start much of anything until January 21, 2021. By that time, the Taliban had already taken over a lot of territory. I called it surrender on a lay-away plan. The regular troops started negotiating with local Taliban commanders WAY before April 2021.
Pres. Biden managed to get an extension through August, because the Taliban knew we were going to leave, one way or another - an extra few months just let them continue the piecemeal surrender process.
Considering the planning for evacuation didn't start until after the inauguration due to TFG stonewalling and obstruction, the Biden Administration pulled off a near miracle.
Our support of a bunch of fanatics known as the mujahideen didn't help matters.
Who were these people that Reagan called freedom fighters? When they toppled the communist regime in Kabul, one of the mujahideen's first edicts stated: “women are not to leave their homes at all, unless absolutely necessary, in which case they are to cover themselves completely.” Women were also banned from “walking gracefully or with pride.”
Those were our allies. After we toppled the Taliban in 2003, we hired many of them to impose order on the countryside. As bad as the Taliban are, many rural Afghans decided that our friends were much, much worse.
The majority of whom showed absolutely no interest in their own freedom or civil rights whatsoever. Did they resist the Taliban at all in their drive to re-take Afghanistan? I couldn't tell.
By contrast, there's 37,000 women serving in the Ukranian armed forces.
The leader of Ukraine risked death and stood his ground. The leader of Afghanistan hopped on an airplane and was one of the first ones out of the country.
I doubt that Zelensky-like resolve in Kabul would have kept that regime in place for very long.
Richard Engel was just visited by the FBI for tweeting threats at Doyle Mc Manus.
& the national lamestream apparatus -- including the Conor Friedersdork & Caitlin Flappergan Antikancellation Tendency d/b/a the Atlantic -- has joined a conspiracy to ensure Mc Manus never works again.
You're right about the Atlantic. I just saw some headlines on their site lamenting the withdrawal and being very critical of it.
But not the initial invasion invasion by Bush, or the crazy idea that we could build a democracy there. So Biden takes the fall for US hubris.
Blind into Baghdad by James Fallows from early 2004 was a good, early Iraq critique.
Fallows might well be the only Atlantic writer worth a shit, too. Him & Ed Yong.
One hell of a lot better than the first British withdrawal from Afghanistan.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/The_Last_Stand%2C_by_William_Barnes_Wollen_%281898%29.jpg
Fun fact: Dr. John Watson left the military, after being wounded in Afghanistan. He ended up as an impromptu assistant to an eccentric "detective", one Sherlock Holmes.
"I would certainly like to hear a few others acknowledge this."
LOL, sure. Right after they admit that their hatred of Hillary Clinton was unfounded and wrong.
It always amazed me that they seemed more worked up & intent on vilifying her than William Jefferson Clinton.
It wasn't Biden's agreement to withdraw. It was Trump's that Biden had to work with. Biden wanted troops out of there, but we was limited in what he could do. And Republicans were blocking any plans to allow more Afghans into the US.
Nope. There was no blocking. Most that wanted to leave could and did to other area countries. But keep telling stories to fit your bias.
From "The Hill" - How Trump broke the system that offers protection to Afghan allies.
Basically, the TFG administration screwed up the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) system starting in 2017.
Not to mention that former guy having all but dismantled the green card process.
Nope. There was no dismantling. Why even post this nonsense??? It's much like morons that still don't understand why Deportations fell under Trump from Obama. If you reduce arrests, you can pack numbers. Even with actual illegals getting away with it while under Obama they were processed and deported. Everything with the Trump Organization is a con.
+1
A year later, Biden’s decision to withdraw, however disastrous it appeared at the time, looks more defensible.
It was the two decade quagmire that was disastrous, not the decision to withdraw from said quagmire. McManus has been in DC too long.
+1
Whatever you do, don't watch Last Week Tonight w/ John Oliver.
Isn't his wife an Iraq/Afghanistan war vet?
I guess we’ll have to endure these retrospectives for another day or two then we can all go back to not giving a damn about the evil afghans. Let them suffer. They deserve it. Worst people in the world. Worse than republicans and Russians even! Barely literate religious fanatics. Oh - same on that score I guess.
Now… let’s send US Military to Ukraine to defend the West from this other barbaric regime. It’s funny. We should have troops in Afghanistan and Somalia but not Ukraine?
How many thermonuclear warheads did the Taliban have?
I think there was a misguided fear that after Afghanistan we may slow down on military spending. But Ukraine fixed that. No need to cry over Afghanistan - quotas are being met yet again.
For a different perspective:
"The Other Afghan Women. In the countryside, the endless killing of civilians turned women against the occupiers who claimed to be helping them."
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women
Anand Gopal is the only journalist I've heard of who had the cojones to independently report from the Afghan countryside, unembedded with US or coalition forces. I highly recommend his book:
"No Good Men Among the Living: America, the Taliban, and the War Through Afghan Eyes"
https://www.amazon.com/No-Good-Men-Among-Living/dp/B00TG4UH18/ref=sr_1_1?crid=17XSVK9874I3P&keywords=no+good+men+among+the+living&qid=1660566224&sprefix=no+good+men%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-1
Gopal's article is a good one. Bottom line is the divide in Afghanistan is similar to that all over the world: countryside vs. city. And in Afghanistan, where 70 percent of the population lives outside cities, a rural movement like the Taliban has the advantage.
Lets also note the Trump era deregulation of business groups and missionaries from Obama era rules were a large factor behind the 2018 immigration megawave and the Covid era wave in 2020. Once again, this board is full of Transcendentalist/unitarian story tellers. They can't admit team Trump was a grifting con man. It's partly why the new right keeps on latching on to them. The whole Reagan coalition/late 70's consensus that created prosperity gospel and other globalist wall street background noise took a hit in 2008. Then we have the 2010's water wars out west spitting in the face of permanent growth. When capitalism dies, all the dead ranchers and farmers in Wyoming will surface like turds on top of water.
Republicans can't handle that permanent debt expansion and growth in general are finite. The new right's fantasy is over. Team Trump just were another Reaganite globalist con job that used China in place of Japan. Created more bogus free trade deals with Mexico/Canada......because angry rich farmers. Fought with Europe like Bush......used ineffective tariffs as a weapon......like Bush.
I think, for many, the 'controversy' was not IF leaving Afghanistan was wise. Rather, the exit seemed disorganized/not well planned and the results (loss of life, fall of Kabul etc) were different and worse than the public's (and frankly the Administrations) expectations.
Take away one lucky freak bombing, your point is dead.
Respectfully, I have a brother who served in Afghanistan. I do not believe you speak from an informed point of view.
It's a semi-literate, anti-semitic homophobic troll. It leaves its droppings to get attention. Please don't feed the troll.
Compared to the twenty years of the conflict, the evacuation went better than one might have expected. The problems of the withdrawal were the direct consequence of the failures of ‘nation-building’ and of training the Afghan military. And of course the operation had to be carried out in the middle of a global pandemic.
KenSchulz - I have limited knowledge of the military beyond my brother. My brother is a West Point grad, a retired officer and he served in a Special Forces unit: he has robust criticism around the poor logistical planning for the US force exit.
To be clear, my brother does not debate the decision to leave: rather, he believes the management of the exit was very poor...
US intelligence agencies predicted the Afghan military and government would remain in control of Kabul for several months after the US pulled out. That intelligence informed the planning for the withdrawal. It turned out to be completely wrong.
HOWEVER, it's hard to see how any amount of planning could have changed the outcome even if the intelligence agencies had predicted that the Afghan government and military would fold in a heap the day America began to withdraw. The only thing that could have prevented the chaos in Kabul would have been another military "surge" so tens of thousands of NATO troops would have taken control of the city prior to evacuations commencing. That would have been furiously condemned as a betrayal of the Afghan government and military, could well have resulted in a renewal of Taliban attacks on American troops, and led to the wihdrawal being cancelled.
I’m keen to hear the details of your brother’s alternative withdrawal-management plan. Meantime, I think kenalovell is likely correct: securing access routes to the airport would have required many more troops, would likely have provoked Taliban attacks, and would have resulted in more US casualties.
I’m keen to hear the details of your brother’s alternative withdrawal-management plan. Meantime, I think kenalovell is likely correct: securing access routes to the airport would have required many more troops, would likely have provoked Taliban attacks, and would have resulted in more US casualties.
Add the fact that TFG had unilaterally surrendered Afghanistan 3 years ago and did nothing to plan for a withdrawal. If you remember, his administration simply did almost none of the normally expected transition work to help the incoming Biden administration. They had to start from near zero on January 21, 2021.
While all the preceding Presidents have a role, the Biden administration made specific choices that resulted in bad outcomes.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/08/15/new_gop_report_biden_misled_public_on_afghanistan__148049.html
Sorry, but a GOP report blaming Biden isn't really evidence on anything but their own mendacity.
I am not claiming the 'report' is fully accurate. Rather, clearly the Biden made decisions and those choices had impacts...
The report is not even in spitting distance of the truth. Sorry.
Spades is talking to himself again.
You just don't want to listen. Weak ignorant minded sheep like yourself are the definition of why reeducation camps should be opened.
Nobody else wants to.
The Afghan refugees in the US have begun their grievance killing, fulfilling their bargain with the war planners.
If you're talking about Albuquerque, no. Not even close.
There was/is no way to influence Afghanistan's attitude towards women, or democracy
There has always been too much tribalism and religion in general there. In the brief periods of time when more moderate leaders were in charge women made strides in that country and were very happy about it.
We just couldn't "win" that war so the results are that they go back into that tribalistic, Sunni version of Islam and the attitude that women are inferior.
It is a shame really.
But after spending Bil/Tril-ions over there it's time we face the fact that we are not liberators, we cannot win their hearts and minds and we were not welcomed with open arms!
So, rather than criticize the Biden Administration, I am going full blown republican here and sending them thoughts and prayers.
Herat - "Little Iran" was one place that held out hope for continued higher education for women, & it was especially sad to see that end.
It was idiotic of Biden to reduce US troop levels in Afghanistan to a mere 3500, a number too small to support an orderly withdrawal. Oh, that’s right . . . It wasn’t Biden who reduced the troop levels, it was Trump.
Bingo!
For twenty years, the United States tried to change Afghanistan, setting up democratic institutions, building schools, preaching female equality, etc. The military occupation allowed this, and yet these changes didn't seem to take fire.
Afghanistan is not even a hand-to-mouth country; it's now and has been totally dependent on foreign food and other aid for its survival. Yet, its people, notably the female side, have been given the tools for change and can use them.
Maybe they will.
I would like to say t hat Spadesofgray is correct and middleoftheroaddem with the West Point brother is incorrect.
"Take away one lucky freak bombing, your point is dead."
A West Point education is no magic dust that allows you to see clearly...which is fact is proven by how very wrong your brother is.
Never have so many people been airlifted in history, the US military performed superbly and logistically the impossible was accomplished.
"The U.S. airlifted 124,000 people from Kabul, the capital, over about six weeks"
The whole country rightfully wanted to leave....the US did more and more quickly and with fewer losses that could have been imagined.
Spades is right.
Best Wishes, Traveller
Bluto Barksalot generically threatens violence,
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-fbi-search-violence-b2145439.html
Terrible if something happened to that nice country you got there . . .
There's plenty of blame to go around for the whole tragic encounter with Afghanistan. I found the column by David Ignatius interesting; it is more of insiders view (by the responsible commander of the US forces at the time (so perhaps biased).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/15/afghanistan-kabul-us-withdrawal-anniversary-lessons/